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Niner Fan with Info
Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:39 pm
by RedRazor
What's up guys-
I'm a long time 49er fan and I post over at 49erswebzone.com.
Some other posters on 49erswebzone said you guys wanted info on Lloyd and Carter so here's my take.
Lloyd
Insane hands. He will catch anything near him. Also has outstanding body awareness...can maneuver his body too make some of the most difficult catches. Will be a good #2 receiver for you (not great). He definately won't be the 3rd receiver, not because he's that good but because he hates contact. Slot receivers are more involved in blocking and running routes over the middle and there's no way Lloyd will do that. He is "wimpy."
His biggest downfall is his speed. He is very slow and could never get any separation from DB's. But this shouldn't be as much of a problem in Washington beacause he isn't the #1 receiver. Lloyd will be covered by the opponents #2 CB. He will definately be better in Washington than he was in SF because the offense is better and he's being covered by the lesser of the two CB's. Regarding the trade...the Redskins gave up way too much for him. I know the Niners signed him to a contract that made his trade value a 1st round pick. We ended up getting a 3rd and a 4th round pick for a guy that I would have given for just a third. Redskins could have picked up a better receiver in the third round and he would have been cheaper and most likely faster. Niners put themselves in a win win situation by signing him to this type of contract. Either we keep Lloyd or we get good value from him. So I think the Niners got the better deal but not by a whole lot. I know I sound like a "homer" but that's honestly how I feel.
Carter
Never really lived up to his first round status for the Niners but that doesn't mean he won't with the Redskins. He played great early in his career and showed lots of promise. Then two things happened...he got hurt and then he was asked to play OLB. After getting hurt his production slowed a bit but not drastically. When he moved to OLB he didnt exactly shine there but he also didn't stink up the joint. He was okay and the amount he was asking was far too much for just an okay OLB. I think he will do good (if not great) by going back to his original position. I believe the Redskins play the 4-3 and Carter back up there on the line rushing the QB will be great. If I had to guess, I would expect Carter to have 8 sacks next year. That will most likely be his average throughout his career.
That's all I got-
Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:11 pm
by Chris Luva Luva
. Thanks for the opinion. However, look how S. Moss took off when he came here. He was everything you made these 2 guys out to be.
What we have here that is better than anywhere else is our coaches. They have the uncanny ability to extract the best out of every player. The reports out of Redskin park is that Lloyd isn't showing any of the ngative SF qualities thus far.
Re: Niner Fan with Info
Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:26 pm
by 1niksder
Welcome to the boards and thanks for the info
RedRazor wrote:What's up guys-
I'm a long time 49er fan and I post over at 49erswebzone.com.
Some other posters on 49erswebzone said you guys wanted info on Lloyd and Carter so here's my take.
Lloyd
Insane hands. He will catch anything near him. Also has outstanding body awareness...can maneuver his body too make some of the most difficult catches. Will be a good #2 receiver for you (not great). He definately won't be the 3rd receiver, not because he's that good but because he hates contact. Slot receivers are more involved in blocking and running routes over the middle and there's no way Lloyd will do that. He is "wimpy."
His biggest downfall is his speed. He is very slow and could never get any separation from DB's. But this shouldn't be as much of a problem in Washington beacause he isn't the #1 receiver. Lloyd will be covered by the opponents #2 CB. He will definately be better in Washington than he was in SF because the offense is better and he's being covered by the lesser of the two CB's. Regarding the trade...the Redskins gave up way too much for him. I know the Niners signed him to a contract that made his trade value a 1st round pick. We ended up getting a 3rd and a 4th round pick for a guy that I would have given for just a third. Redskins could have picked up a better receiver in the third round and he would have been cheaper and most likely faster. Niners put themselves in a win win situation by signing him to this type of contract. Either we keep Lloyd or we get good value from him. So I think the Niners got the better deal but not by a whole lot. I know I sound like a "homer" but that's honestly how I feel.
Seem Lloyd has the same faults that Moss had when he left N.Y. I won't go into disputing this as I've found players speak better for themselfs after the season starts. You may have been able to get a cheaper WR in the 3rd round but you'd have to wait for him to develope and then he'd be up for a new contract. better to let that 3rd rounder be drafted on learn on someone else's roster and then sign them away when they are ready to take the field. (with a rookie you don't know what you are getting, with Lloyd you can always look at 49er's tape to see what he has done)
RedRazor wrote:Carter
Never really lived up to his first round status for the Niners but that doesn't mean he won't with the Redskins. He played great early in his career and showed lots of promise. Then two things happened...he got hurt and then he was asked to play OLB. After getting hurt his production slowed a bit but not drastically. When he moved to OLB he didnt exactly shine there but he also didn't stink up the joint. He was okay and the amount he was asking was far too much for just an okay OLB. I think he will do good (if not great) by going back to his original position. I believe the Redskins play the 4-3 and Carter back up there on the line rushing the QB will be great. If I had to guess, I would expect Carter to have 8 sacks next year. That will most likely be his average throughout his career.
Carter will play DL in Washington this will put him back in his normal postition and he is healthy. His outside pass rush will be of great assistants to GW and his schemes.
Again thanks for the info and enjoy the
whole site.
Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:30 pm
by SkinsFreak
Chris Luva Luva wrote:Cool. Thanks for the opinion. However, look how S. Moss took off when he came here. He was everything you made these 2 guys out to be.
What we have here that is better than anywhere else is our coaches. They have the uncanny ability to extract the best out of every player. The reports out of Redskin park is that Lloyd isn't showing any of the ngative SF qualities thus far.
Good points regarding Moss and the coaching staff. Took the words right off my keyboard. Funny how everyone said Moss was average at best.
BTW - I wonder what ever happened to that...uhh...umm... Coles guy?
Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:01 pm
by tcwest10
"Sideline Santana". Remember that? I recall posting that when our guys leave through free agency, they usually wind up shining for their new team, and that it would be nice if that would finally happen for us. Too many Stubblefield and Wilkinson types for me, not enough Ellards.
I'd say Santana was more Ellard than Stubblefield for us, and I can only sit and hope that Lloyd and Carter come through and reward the faith shown.
Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:14 pm
by yupchagee
If Lloyd is so slow, how did he smoke the Pukes last yr. From what I've read, he's very acrobatic. Should be a good 3rd down & red zone receiver.
I have no doubt that Carter was playing out of position as a 3-4 OLB. He'll be a sack machine for us.
Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:47 am
by rick301
yupchagee wrote:If Lloyd is so slow, how did he smoke the Pukes last yr. From what I've read, he's very acrobatic. Should be a good 3rd down & red zone receiver..
The girls can't run very fast in their high heels ...
Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:23 am
by USAFSkinFan
Good post, I like hearing an honest review from sources outside our camp... let us know if we can ever return the favor...
Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:01 pm
by gibbsfan
i,m hoping everybody does well.
i hope the chemistry is there from mni camp on..
Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:26 pm
by Fanforever
SkinsFreak wrote:Chris Luva Luva wrote:Cool. Thanks for the opinion. However, look how S. Moss took off when he came here. He was everything you made these 2 guys out to be.
What we have here that is better than anywhere else is our coaches. They have the uncanny ability to extract the best out of every player. The reports out of Redskin park is that Lloyd isn't showing any of the ngative SF qualities thus far.
Good points regarding Moss and the coaching staff. Took the words right off my keyboard. Funny how everyone said Moss was average at best.
Plus, we don't have to look very far to be reminded of all the critics of Santana last year until he turned in the season he had. Too small, not a # 1 receiver all the negatives. Lloyd will be an excellent complement to Moss regardless of what they say he did in SF. Here, he will be surrounded by much better players period.
BTW - I wonder what ever happened to that...uhh...umm... Coles guy?
Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:11 pm
by DaRealistJoka
We dont know who got the best of the deal until after the season,the Jets also believe they got the best of the deal.
Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:31 pm
by Fios
The Jets thought they got the best of that deal, emphasis on the past tense
Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:43 pm
by yupchagee
Fios wrote:The Jets thought they got the best of that deal, emphasis on the past tense
I think the biggest loser in the deal was Coles.
Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:21 pm
by Californiaskin
Yeah thanks for the info and all but the biggest difference this year is that Carter and lloyd will be Redskins and not whiners. The 9r organization is a mess right now........Fricken York needs to build a new stadium.........Monster park (while nostalgic) has got to be one of the top 5 worst stadiums in the league right now........They are actually advertising season tickets on sale for this years 9rs on air up here in Reddin' right now. There is very little cohesion for the 9rs these days and that leads to inconsistant preformances.
Watch both of these guys blossom and dominate this season!
Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:52 pm
by 1niksder
yupchagee wrote:Fios wrote:The Jets thought they got the best of that deal, emphasis on the past tense
I think the biggest loser in the deal was Coles.
Coles got paid ... Twice
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:09 am
by hkHog
Let's see what happens when these guys get some DECENT coaching!
...oh yeah, and some real NFL talent around them!
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:17 am
by aswas71788
Just my humble opinion but the difference in a players performance is the attiude of both the player and the organization. Coles and 50/50 didn't fit the Gibbs Redskins attitude mold, i.e.gone along with others. I don't think past hostory is a real measure because of the difference in attitude and organizations. Sometimes it take time for them to buy into the Gibbs required attitude, but when they do, they get better.
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:24 am
by 1niksder
Trouble is a good person but he is me first and just wouldn't have fit in the end in Ashburn. Rod just can't play Maybe if he had stuck at QB
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:37 pm
by JansenFan
USAFSkinFan wrote:Good post, I like hearing an honest review from sources outside our camp... let us know if we can ever return the favor...
I think they signed Walt Harris. Maybe you could give them an honest review of his abilities.
Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:15 pm
by USAFSkinFan
JansenFan wrote:USAFSkinFan wrote:Good post, I like hearing an honest review from sources outside our camp... let us know if we can ever return the favor...
I think they signed Walt Harris. Maybe you could give them an honest review of his abilities.
Walt Harris - decent club house guy with a good attitude... will help the young San Fran DBs more off the field than on the field... not a man-to-man cover guy... he'll be okay coming off the bench playing zone or covering a 3rd receiver as long as he stays healthy... not an everyday starter at this point in his carreer...
Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:16 pm
by SkinsJock
I'll agree with a number of the guys here who have basically indicated that the players that have been selected to play both from the draft and free agency have been selected primarily for what they can do under our system and to complement the others who are here and will also be a part of both a new offensive system and some new wrinkles on d just because Williams also will make some changes based on his new people.
Going to be a lot of fun here this year as I believe we will have an even better team effort than the last few games of the season.
I like the additions from the 49ers and feel that both will benefit from the systems that they will be learning and perfecting in the coming weeks.
GO SKINS
Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:33 pm
by RedRazor
Hello again,
I enjoyed reading all of the feedback.
Lloyd
I agree with a lot of you...Lloyd will be better in Washington than he was in SF. This will be due to a better team, a better QB throwing to him, and not being the #1 receiver. Also, the fact that he's going to another team with veteran leadership is HUGE. Lloyd is very immature and on the Niners he could act out (i.e. calling out our QB in our loss to Chicago that the ball wasn't thrown properly. Lloyd didn't make an effort at the ball because he was going to get hit...Niner fans were pissed at him for this). Anyways, with veterans in the locker room, this should teach Lloyd how to prepare and be a better football player. All that being said, I just don't want you guys to get your hopes up on this guy. Yes he's good but nothing spectacular. And as of now, I still think the Niners got the better end of this deal. Lloyd may prove me to be completely wrong by having a stellar season (which is totally possible), but we'll have to wait till about mid-season to see who actually got the better deal.
(Lloyd Tid-Bit: Do you guys know he's a part time rapper...you can hear some of his songs on his website).
Carter
I have a better grip on how Carter will do with the Redskins than I do Lloyd. Going back to his original position is going to be great for him. He will definately harass the QB and get some sacks. He isn't an elite DE and I don't think he ever will be (not strong enough) but like I said before, he will average about 8 sacks. Kind of a poor mans Jevon Kearse.
So that's my take. I have a very good feeling that my analysis of Carter will hold true but Lloyd on the other hand is a complete wild-card. All of this, of course, is complete speculation until the season starts but I enjoyed discussing this with you guys during this "hellish" time called off-season. Also, I am not trying to say "ha ha" Niners got the better deal regarding Lloyd. I am honestly looking at the situation from an outsiders perspective and that is truely how I see it. Good luck with the upcoming season, I hope you guys win the east (I voted on a poll on SI stating that I think you guys are going to surprise a lot of people and win the east). Anyways, I hate the Cowboys, Eagles, and Eli Manning.
Looking forward to any comments.
Oh ya one more thing? Can anyone answer this question...Why did the Redskins go after 3 receivers that all bring the same exact thing to the table? They're all small, high twitch fiber type of guys. That's good and all but why all 3 positions filled with the same type of player. I think it would have been smart for the Redskins to get one tall/big possession type receiver. Thoughts?
Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:41 pm
by JansenFan
I think Chris
ey showed last year he can bring in the tough catches, as can Mike Sellers and now Christian Fauria. They Tight-End/Fullback position can ake care of things when we need a "big-man" catch.
Santana Moss plays big, and Lloyd can jump with the best of them, so I speculate that the team thought they had enough firepower to cover just about any situation.
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:08 am
by USAFSkinFan
RedRazor wrote:Oh ya one more thing? Can anyone answer this question...Why did the Redskins go after 3 receivers that all bring the same exact thing to the table? They're all small, high twitch fiber type of guys. That's good and all but why all 3 positions filled with the same type of player. I think it would have been smart for the Redskins to get one tall/big possession type receiver. Thoughts?
it's about what's available when you're looking... honestly it wasn't by design, they're just looking for playmakers... they've shown interest, in the past, in taller receivers like Plaxico Burress for instance, but they haven't been interested in breaking the bank at that position or getting a taller receiver at the expense of playmaking ability. I'm sure they'd love it if Lloyd were 6'3", but more than that they like his ability to get to go get the ball..."
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:34 am
by tcwest10
RedRazor wrote:Oh ya one more thing? Can anyone answer this question...Why did the Redskins go after 3 receivers that all bring the same exact thing to the table? They're all small, high twitch fiber type of guys. That's good and all but why all 3 positions filled with the same type of player. I think it would have been smart for the Redskins to get one tall/big possession type receiver. Thoughts?
Well, our farm team in New York didn't have any prospects to bring up to the big leagues for a tryout, so...we got three of the same thing in case one breaks.