The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I saw a interview with Ray Lewis and he was saying he is the same player he once was and the reason he isn't is because he doesn't have his Scottie Pipen. I am sick of players complaining he was saying that he doesn't have those big lineman eating up blockers. I think this shows he is overrated and always was.
"those lineman in 2000 would clear out blockers and I wouldn't be touched"
First if ur any kind of a linebacker u should be able to shed blocks, playing a physical position u have to take on blockers and to be elite yes Ray u have to shed them.
2nd it shows he is dependent on his line to be dominant he can't do it on his own.
3rd this shows that he isn't that good u should take reponsibility for your own play, u shouldn't be blaming others. If thats the reason ur not dominate than it shows ur dependent on ur D-line and the system (maybe) and ur not a elite player.
People talk about Ray coming here, yeah right u think Gibbs would tolerate that (blaming ur teammates for ur performence and not taking the responsibility for ur own play.
Think of it did u ever hear Marcus Washington complaining about Indy when it was clearly how they were using him was the reason he wasn't as dominant there as he was here. But he didn't complain. He did leave but he didn't complain and wished them well when he left.

I hope he gets traded to the Giants

skinsRin wrote:I hope he gets traded to the Giants

ha that would be great

Still amazes me how announcers fawn over this guy. Just think if he got involved in another murder and lied on the stand about it again. Toss in a few hookers and boom - Hall of Fame. Meanwhile, the leading receiver in NFL history (while playing) does something else for the community and gets told (once again) that he was just a stat-monster-fluke of longevity.

DarthMonk

John Manfreda wrote: I think this shows he is overrated and always was.

If thats the reason ur not dominate than it shows ur dependent on ur D-line and the system (maybe) and ur not a elite player.

I think those of you who think that Ray Lewis was not and is not an elite player are fooling yourselfs.


1st - Other then a couple of injuries he may be the most dominate LB ever, including Lawrence Taylor and Dick Butkus. It is an oppinion but the argument can be made.

Dick Butkus retired in 1973 after 9 years, stats were not kept in detail like today. He played in 119 games with 1,020 tackles, 489 assists and 22 interceptions. His 25 recoveries of fumbles by opponents are now fifth on the all-time list, but Jim Marshall needed 20 years for his 29 recoveries, Rickey Jackson 15 seasons for his 28, Kevin Green 15 campaigns for his 26 and Cornelius Bennett 14 years for his 26.Rushing: 1-28; Scoring: 1 TD, 1 Safety; Kickoff Returns: 12-120. Eight straight Pro Bowls.


Taylor retired in 1993, he had accumlated 1,088 tackles in 184 games, 132.5 sacks, 9 interceptions, 134 return yards, 2 touchdowns, 11 fumble recoveries. Remember LT has had his off field problems as well.

Ray Lewis is still playing ( 50 fewer games then LT and 15 more then Butkus ), he has 1286 tackles in 134 games, 23 sacks, 21 interceptions, 359 return yards, 2 touchdowns, 7 fumble recoveries.

2nd - The fact that Ray Lewis played on such a great defense with several other pro bowl players and he still made all those tackles should speak volumes of how dominate he is.

3rd - He is also the undisputed team leader. He has earned the right to call out a teammate. Lets be honest not every player comes to play every game and some guys are out there playing with marginal NFL tallent.

4th - In his era name me one LB that was more dominate?

Ray Lewis is an outstanding football player.

On Gibbs' list (and Lombardi's and mine) character comes before talent. It generally wins too. Sometimes talent wins out over character but it is an exception that generally has a very short shelf life. Lewis' act wore thin quickly. I could NEVER cheer for him - not after he managed to get rid of his blood-stained clothes and lie to the authorities about facts in a murder. I still don't know why he was not suspended for that ... and please don't bring up "allegedly" and "no conviction." I'm talking about lying in a murder case.

I cannot name a more dominant LB since LT. If he were to become a 'Skin I would have to try very hard to not puke. Same feelin I had when we signed D. Sanders but for a different reason. I know a lot of Raven fans and most of them struggle with cheering for Lewis.

I have a feeling Gibbs had a short list (either written or simply just known to him in his mind) of players he essentially would not consider hiring. I beleive TO and Lewis were both on that list.

DarthMonk

BernieSki wrote:

John Manfreda wrote: I think this shows he is overrated and always was.

If thats the reason ur not dominate than it shows ur dependent on ur D-line and the system (maybe) and ur not a elite player.

I think those of you who think that Ray Lewis was not and is not an elite player are fooling yourselfs.


1st - Other then a couple of injuries he may be the most dominate LB ever, including Lawrence Taylor and Dick Butkus. It is an oppinion but the argument can be made.

Dick Butkus retired in 1973 after 9 years, stats were not kept in detail like today. He played in 119 games with 1,020 tackles, 489 assists and 22 interceptions. His 25 recoveries of fumbles by opponents are now fifth on the all-time list, but Jim Marshall needed 20 years for his 29 recoveries, Rickey Jackson 15 seasons for his 28, Kevin Green 15 campaigns for his 26 and Cornelius Bennett 14 years for his 26.Rushing: 1-28; Scoring: 1 TD, 1 Safety; Kickoff Returns: 12-120. Eight straight Pro Bowls.


Taylor retired in 1993, he had accumlated 1,088 tackles in 184 games, 132.5 sacks, 9 interceptions, 134 return yards, 2 touchdowns, 11 fumble recoveries. Remember LT has had his off field problems as well.

Ray Lewis is still playing ( 50 fewer games then LT and 15 more then Butkus ), he has 1286 tackles in 134 games, 23 sacks, 21 interceptions, 359 return yards, 2 touchdowns, 7 fumble recoveries.

2nd - The fact that Ray Lewis played on such a great defense with several other pro bowl players and he still made all those tackles should speak volumes of how dominate he is.

3rd - He is also the undisputed team leader. He has earned the right to call out a teammate. Lets be honest not every player comes to play every game and some guys are out there playing with marginal NFL tallent.

4th - In his era name me one LB that was more dominate?

The D was designed around him, when forced to take on blocks he could not do it, stats don't always tell the whole story. He is good, but not great.

As many of you know I am all about the "team concept" and especially as it applies to the NFL. I think players should be measured not by their own level of skill but by how that skill affects the level of play by other players on his team.

Arrington has the skills and the physical characteristics but lately his level of play and especially how much better it makes other players "play" has not been that evident to me and apparently the coaches felt that this was not in the best interests of the team.

I hope for Arrington's sake that he learns that his most important job is to help others make plays - then he might be looked at as a very good player, maybe even great! Getting selected to the Pro Bowl, IMO, is not the measure of success - having others selected to the Pro Bowl because of your play is the true measure.

I think he just has never fully appreciated that - maybe now, but I doubt it.

Good luck Lavar - beware of what you wish for! I hope that Gibbs and Saunders don't make you look too bad when you come back!

SkinsJock wrote:As many of you know I am all about the "team concept" and especially as it applies to the NFL. I think players should be measured not by their own level of skill but by how that skill affects the level of play by other players on his team.

Arrington has the skills and the physical characteristics but lately his level of play and especially how much better it makes other players "play" has not been that evident to me and apparently the coaches felt that this was not in the best interests of the team.

I hope for Arrington's sake that he learns that his most important job is to help others make plays - then he might be looked at as a very good player, maybe even great! Getting selected to the Pro Bowl, IMO, is not the measure of success - having others selected to the Pro Bowl because of your play is the true measure.

I think he just has never fully appreciated that - maybe now, but I doubt it.

Good luck Lavar - beware of what you wish for! I hope that Gibbs and Saunders don't make you look too bad when you come back!

What are you saying about Ray, is he a team player or not.

There is plenty of other posts if you wanna talk about Lavar, I was wondering what you all thought about what Ray and those comments.

I'd love to offer some insightful comments here, but I really can't think of Ray Lewis without the word scumbag coming into my mind. It tends to cloud my judgement. Sorry.

Ray Lewis WAS - and still IS - a freak on the field. He's just an unbelievable player. No one can dominate without help so don't run him down because his line was good or his safety was good, etc. Maybe offenses were worried about him and he made the line better -- is that possible? I think it is. The guy made plays that only a few guys could make. I've seen him play in games where he's all over the field.

Would I love to see the Ravens cut him amd have him join the Skins for an incentive based contract? Absolutely -- a move like this would make our defense dominating for a few years. I do recognize that he's on the downside of his career but I'd like to have him.

Read my prior posts -- I'm not the kind of guy who feels we should bring in every superstar to our team. In fact, I'm the opposite. I always think back to cutting Brian Mitchell to sign Deion Sanders -- ohh, that move still breaks my heart. I just feel Lewis with an attitude over getting no respect from the Ravens would be a stud. I would NOT pay him a lot of money without regard to his ability to play, and play well.