The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Sean Taylor--still here, pending trial.

Patrick Ramsey--presumably gone soon for a draft choice

Rod Gardner--long gone

Arrington--gone

Samuels--a keeper, good pick

Champ--gone

Stephen Alexander--????????????????

Kenard Lang--long gone

Andre Johnson--????????????????

Michael Westbrook--long gone, but stayed long enough to throw helmet and lose game to Big Blue.

Heath Shuler--enough said

Tom Carter--long gone

Desmond Howard--long gone, but good kick returner



Hard to get back to Super Bowl with this kind of history of first round picks.

Let's look at the picks since Gibbs came back:

Sean Taylor - stud

Carlos Rodgers - stud

Jason Campbell - future stud

elchalje wrote:Hard to get back to Super Bowl with this kind of history of first round picks.

I could have sworn we got further than the Giants...

I seem to remeber the Giants coaching staff blowing a game and their players airing out dirty laundry to the media.

I also seem to remeber Strahan publicly complaining about the team until they start winning.

I remeber players from the Giants revolting against the coaching staff.

I also remeber the giants losing/getting blown out of a superbowl in the year 2000

Thats not fair Chris.
Its hard to win a playoff game when you draft a Manning with the first overall pick.

elchalje wrote:Michael Westbrook--long gone, but stayed long enough to throw helmet and lose game to Big Blue.

That game ended in a tie. We were driving hard and into Giants territory when that happened and we lost the position for a field goal attempt and the win, but it ended in a tie. Westbrook... what a moron.

Champ was traded for our feature back though. It's not like we lost him to free agency and got nothng or a next-to-nothing for him in a trade (like Rod Gardner going to Carolina for a 5th rounder) as we did get good value for him.

Carlos Rogers...Does the name ring a bell? How about Jason Campbell?

Who's your squad? I think its the Giants if I remember correctly.

Let's take a look...
2005: No Pick
2004: Phillip Rivers gone
2003: William Joseph 5 career sacks
2002: Jeremy Shockey good player, head case
2001: Will Allen 8 career picks
2000: Ron Dayne bust, gone
1999: Luke Petitgout solid lineman
1998: Shaun Williams played 10 games in the last 2 seasons
1997: Ike Hilliard bust, long gone
1996: Cedric Jones gone
1995: Tyrone Wheatly bust, long gone
1994: Thomas Lewis long gone
1993: Dave Brown long gone

I don't see much of a difference. Our picks are better in my opinion. At least when our picks leave they are still solid contributors.

2001: Will Allen 8 career picks = major bust who got beat repeatedly last year.

2005 No Pick -- Awww...All that for:
2004 Philip Rivers QB -- Traded to SD for Eli "I crumble in the playoffs like my big brother" Manning
2003 William Joseph DT -- 19 Total tackles, what a STUD!
2002 Jeremy Shockey TE -- The good DOES come with the bad, I guess.
2001 Will Allen -- Cut
2000 Ron Dayne -- Looked pretty good in Denver.
1999 Luke Petitgout OT -- So-so O-Lineman
1998 Shaun Williams S -- 17 Solo Tackles last year...he must be working out with William Joseph.
1997 Ike Hilliard WR -- Cut two years ago and looking like he's already retired in TB.
1996 Cedric Jones -- Who Dat?
1995 Tyrone Wheatley RB -- Come again???

portis26 wrote:Carlos Rogers...Does the name ring a bell? How about Jason Campbell?

Who's your squad? I think its the Giants if I remember correctly.

Let's take a look...
2005: No Pick
2004: Phillip Rivers gone
2003: William Joseph 5 career sacks
2002: Jeremy Shockey good player, head case
2001: Will Allen 8 career picks
2000: Ron Dayne bust, gone
1999: Luke Petitgout solid lineman
1998: Shaun Williams played 10 games in the last 2 seasons
1997: Ike Hilliard bust, long gone
1996: Cedric Jones gone
1995: Tyrone Wheatly bust, long gone
1994: Thomas Lewis long gone
1993: Dave Brown long gone

I don't see much of a difference. Our picks are better in my opinion. At least when our picks leave they are still solid contributors.

Sorry I missed your post. Going by these draft picks, I'd say the Gnats would be lucky to be toilet bowl bound.

I can't remember, is elch a Dallas or NY fan?
I always get him and gottaloveit mixed up.
I think they started trolling around the same time.

Good points all around but one thing the Giants can say is that at least they have been to a Superbowl in the last 10 years.
Skins will be back soon enough though.

Just to correct one error. The Giants drafted a guy named Strahan number one in 1993. Soon to be in the Hall of Fame.

Interesting how upset people get when one just posts pretty much the facts--sorry, couldn't resist the Westbrook helmet remark.

Meanwhile, you guys are so right. Giants don't have a stellar history re. first rounders either, which explains in part why both Skins and Giants have seen few Super Bowls in the past decade.

Sean Taylor--still here, pending trial.

he also happens to be the single most talented defensive player in the NFL, which you kind of forgot to mention.

Patrick Ramsey--presumably gone soon for a draft choice

yes, we'll get a draft choice out of it, which means we'll still get value for that pick.

Arrington--gone

we got 5 years out of a dynamic player, who developed a lousy attitude over time that didn't warrant his huge paycheck. he was universally considered a future superstar when he was drafted, not much we could do about what happened.

Samuels--a keeper, good pick

keep in mind samuels was drafted at the same time as arrington. so in that year we got a good, lasting 1st round pick. can't ask for much more than that.

Champ--gone

do your homework. that draft pick is still very much a part of the redskins- he wears a uniform that says "Portis" now. perhaps you've heard of him, he's one of the top backs in the NFL and is on pace to become one of the top backs in history.

Stephen Alexander--????????????????

stephen alexander was a 2nd ROUND draft choice that made the probowl for us

Michael Westbrook--
Heath Shuler--
Tom Carter--
Desmond Howard--

those guys were drafted in 1995, 1994, 1993, and 1992 respectively. those are "recent" picks? is Foo Fighters a "recent" band? what about nirvana? you're reaching a bit there.

someone else pointed out that you forgot to mention Carlos Rogers, who within his rookie year stepped in and did a great job starting one of the two most difficult positions in the NFL (QB and CB).

your most egregious oversight, however, would be to exclude the 1st round pick we used in 2003 that now wears the uniform "Moss". we used the 1st on coles, got a couple decent years out of him, then traded him for santana.

Hey Westbrook kicked the hell out of ex Giants Jarrod Bunch in the mixed martial arts last year thought.

Hard to get back to Super Bowl with this kind of history of first round picks.

Say, is this a real question, or just a weak attempt to insult the team?

To be charitable, to assume that this was not simply an insult:

Gibbs has won three Super Bowls. How many of the Redskins 1st round picks did he have?

- Art Monk drafted in 1980. Carried the offense to SB 17, but broke a toe. Played in SB 18, SB 22 (on a sprained knee), and SB 26, where he split the Buffalo defense in half.

- Mark May, SB 17, SB 18, SB 22,

- Darrell Green, drafted in 1983, played in SB 18, 22, and 26.

Not shabby, but not many.

Add Bobby Wilson, who had talent, but never quit made it, though he was on the SB26 team.

Conclusion? First round picks don't mean a lot. They traded a future first round to draft Russ Grimm in the third round. Good decision??? Anybody know a better OL drafted in 1981?

Dexter Manley was a 4th round; Charles Mann was drafted about the 5th round. How many better pairs of DE have played anywhere? Is Strahan as good as Charles Mann? No.

I felt that Gibbs (of old) was not that keen to go through the process of waiting for draft choices to develop and used picks in a lot of cases to fill in areas with current players.

He has had a couple to use in the drafts recently that have helped very well but I think he will be more interested in NFL players this year because he does not have many choices and his cap just got increased to $110mill or so we hear.

Gibbs will be looking for players (not stars) that suit Saunders and Williams. Players that want to be here not that just want to be good players.

2000 Ron Dayne ROTFALMAO
the biggest play he's had in the NFL was for the broncos, and you want to talk about 1st round busts????

hailskins666 wrote:2000 Ron Dayne ROTFALMAO
the biggest play he's had in the NFL was for the broncos, and you want to talk about 1st round busts????

Don't forget, they chose Dayne over Sean Alexander...

well, at least they can afford to pay both eli AND archie rather than having to pay alexander....

elchalje wrote:Just to correct one error. The Giants drafted a guy named Strahan number one in 1993. Soon to be in the Hall of Fame.

Just to correct one error. The Giants drafted a guy named Strahan in the 2nd round (40th pick overall) in 1993.

When you're being snotty, try to at least be right.

Giants website.

I know you didn't call Rogers and Campbell studs.

If Jason Campbell is a stud, Quincy Carter was an All-Pro

Primetime42 wrote:I know you didn't call Rogers and Campbell studs.

If Jason Campbell is a stud, Quincy Carter was an All-Pro

What are you basing that on?

Primetime42 wrote:I know you didn't call Rogers and Campbell studs.

If Jason Campbell is a stud, Quincy Carter was an All-Pro

Can't say anything about Campbell yet, but I can't think of any bad plays by Rogers.

Primetime42 wrote:I know you didn't call Rogers and Campbell studs.

If Jason Campbell is a stud, Quincy Carter was an All-Pro

Campbell hasn't taken an NFL snap yet so calling him a stud or a bust is downright silly at this point. Rogers, while a good starter as a rookie, blew a huge chance in picking off a pass against Hassleback with nothing but green in front of him to give the 'Skins a 10-0 advantage over the Seahawks during the playoffs. Other than that, I can't think of too much whereas I would call him a bust thus far.

Taylor, troubled kid he is, is close to being a Pro Bowl calaber player if he stops spitting at people. Now, all we need him to do is grow up, stop driving drunk, not point guns at people and return his coach's phones calls and he'll be okay off the field.