The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Ok, with the add on of Al Saunders to fix our play calling and schemes there are ways that the Redskins can make this offense explosive as any before.

1. Sit Mark Brunell Down. Either keep Ramsey for this last year and see what he can do, or play Campbell. I for one thought if Ramsey would of played the whole year the Redskins would still be playing. Brunell had some brutal games. Overthrowing everyone, wide right and wide left. He tends to just dink and donk the ball pretty much until the Redskins are behind by a touchdown or so.

2. Sign Reggie Wayne to help out our offense. How good would that be if no defense in their right mind would think about double teaming Santana Moss, only to have Wayne and ey running rampant thru the secondary, this would also be a lot easier with my #3 requirement.

3. #3 requirement is to go out and get a Quality TE such as Meredes Lewis from UCLA or Byrd from USC guys that can stretch a field. I prefer Byrd because he is a total package speed, strenth, and can block. I think Lewis is going to have to gain another 10 -15 lbs to really make it as a TE in the pro',s but his upside is HUGE.

Ok, with the add on of Wayne and a quality TE thru the Draft The Redskins offense will put a lot of defenses Coor. in the Crazy Ward. Just think of the Two TE sets with Byrd and ey

Another thing, if the Redskins trade Pat Ramsey I hope to GOD they pick up to me the second best QB in the Nation last year in Kellen Clemens from Oregon. Not to many people know of him from the EASTern States, but in the West people know who he is, and I think after Matt Leinart he is the best QB in the land. He's coming off a Broken ankle that he recieved in mid October, but he was on pace to throw for about 35 TDs and run in about another 5 tds when he was hurt. Here is a link to his stats from last year.http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootba ... age/408416 its a small taste for him since he only played half the season. I think his injury will knock him down to the 3rd or 4th round.

Also, Maybe we can pick up Maurice Drew as a running back/PR/KR from UCLA who is simply incredible on special teams returns.

1. Ramsey is gone.
2. We probably will sign a #2 receiver. Might be wayne, might not.
3. We probably won't sign a great catching TE. ey fills the gonzales role for us and the TEs are used for blocking primarily. I suppose this could change with Saunders, but I don't expect our base offense to actually change that much...

I agree with Scottskins. Ramsey is gone - Joe Gibbs values the experience that Mark brunell has and anticipates the future that we all hope Campbell will have. I don`t think he trusts Patrick to make the right decisions in the heat of battle. I`m still not sure about that myself but its fairly obvious that that is Joe`s reservation. On the other side of things its probably the time now to let Patrick get on with his career somewhere else before its too late.

I`m not sure what sort of trade we`d get for him in the last year of his contract - I`d like a 3rd rounder but its more likely to be a 4th imo. As I don`t think we`ll draft another QB that leaves FA to pick up a quality player who is prepared to wait for his chance. Anybody got any news on who we might be considering?

I find it laughable that people think this team would have done better with Ramsey. We would've had more sacks...because Ramsey is a statue and more picks because he doesn't know how to throw the ball away. I really like the guy and hopes he proves me wrong..but what you saw in the Bears game was the writing on the wall.

DEHog wrote:I find it laughable that people think this team would have done better with Ramsey. We would've had more sacks...because Ramsey is a statue and more picks because he doesn't know how to throw the ball away. I really like the guy and hopes he proves me wrong..but what you saw in the Bears game was the writing on the wall.

You mean to say that we could also pick, not one game, but an ENTIRE bad season for Brunell and not turn the argument around? Did Brunell have worse games this season than Ramsey had against the Bears at the beginning of the season?
How do you know that Ramsey would have done worse, particularly when Brunell was hurt?
Brunell could not run, nor pass accurately after the injury. He almost gets Santana and ey killed with those floating/sailing passes!
I am amazed that Ramsey did not get a chance when it was clear that Brunell could not do more this season.

The whole treatment received by Patrick Ramsey from the Redskins organization over his tenure here stinks. He gets killed and shell shocked in the "Fun and Gun" disaster. He does not get even a first look and a veteran is hired. He gets a SINGLE miserable game to play and he is sacked at the least excuse. And they recruit a young guy after him!

When did he ever have a legitimate chance? I ask you: If you were him, Would you consider this treatment fair?

Man, I do not believe that there is a guy with more class than Patrick Ramsey to have handled this crap. He will play. He will start somewhere, probably not for us. He will teach a few people a lesson. We can only speculate at this time. It will be too late to win this argument when we prove you wrong.

I will place a bet right now that our offense and defence will both be ranked in the top 10 and maybe top 5, this comming up year. Our coaching staff will put the right players in their postions for their game plan. The SKins don't need much to be great.

i dont know about ramsey playing the whole year, maybe couldve helped us more after mark's injury but after leading the team the whole season i dont think it wouldve been a great thing to just sit him for the playoffs.

Redskin in Canada wrote:

DEHog wrote:I find it laughable that people think this team would have done better with Ramsey. We would've had more sacks...because Ramsey is a statue and more picks because he doesn't know how to throw the ball away. I really like the guy and hopes he proves me wrong..but what you saw in the Bears game was the writing on the wall.

You mean to say that we could also pick, not one game, but an ENTIRE bad season for Brunell and not turn the argument around? Did Brunell have worse games this season than Ramsey had against the Bears at the beginning of the season?
How do you know that Ramsey would have done worse, particularly when Brunell was hurt?
Brunell could not run, nor pass accurately after the injury. He almost gets Santana and ey killed with those floating/sailing passes!
I am amazed that Ramsey did not get a chance when it was clear that Brunell could not do more this season.

The whole treatment received by Patrick Ramsey from the Redskins organization over his tenure here stinks. He gets killed and shell shocked in the "Fun and Gun" disaster. He does not get even a first look and a veteran is hired. He gets a SINGLE miserable game to play and he is sacked at the least excuse. And they recruit a young guy after him!

When did he ever have a legitimate chance? I ask you: If you were him, Would you consider this treatment fair?

Man, I do not believe that there is a guy with more class than Patrick Ramsey to have handled this crap. He will play. He will start somewhere, probably not for us. He will teach a few people a lesson. We can only speculate at this time. It will be too late to win this argument when we prove you wrong.

We know Ramsey would have done worse because that is what he has done throughout his NFL career. He has the physical tools, except for the footwork, but he hasnt reached the mental stage that QB's need

sch1977 wrote:We know Ramsey would have done worse because that is what he has done throughout his NFL career. He has the physical tools, except for the footwork, but he hasnt reached the mental stage that QB's need

Ramsey has consistently done better than Brunell. Even in 2004 Ramsey's rating was better than Brunell.

DEHog wrote:but what you saw in the Bears game was the writing on the wall.

That is a disgusting lie with no fact nor basis other than to trash Ramsey in hope to make Brunell look like a savior.

Ramsey verse the Bears went 6-11, 105 yards, 1 interceptions.

Brunell verse the Bears went 8-14, 70 yards.

Ramsey before the injury got a TD pass nullified to no fault of his own, which is more than Brunell can claim.

Verse the Giants, Ramsey went 5-7 and Brunell went 7-11, so don't even start on that game.

So, now, I have stated facts, tell me how the writing was on the wall for anything other than Gibbs has a crush on Mark Brunell.

RiC, thanks for stating a lot of my points for me. Brunell worship makes me sick. I like to support Brunell and give him congrats for his good play, but I still think Ramsey could do better.

I find it laughable that people think this team would have done better with Ramsey. We would've had more sacks...because Ramsey is a statue and more picks because he doesn't know how to throw the ball away. I really like the guy and hopes he proves me wrong..but what you saw in the Bears game was the writing on the wall.

No way man, under Gibbs, he would have had a great season... It was that old coach who screwed him and basically made him a target for every DL... but I still feel this kid can tear it up under the right coaches.

You know what the real problem with Ramsey is and that is the deep passing game!!!!The guy can zip a ball in there but anything past 25 yards that requires the ball to have some "touch" and float in there to the receivers hand, it just isn't there with Ramsey!!!Hell Brunell is just o.k. with the deep ball and when his leg is no good, his deep passing game goes to squat!!!This is what Gibbs sees wrong with Ramsey no touch with the ball!!I can remember the preseason game against the Bengals and ramsey threw a pick in the endzone and the ball was thrown flat with no pitch!!!I just couldn't see Ramsey making the throws that won the first dallas game for us.I have watched some film on Campell and I think his Deep ball beats Brunell and Ramsey!!I can't wait to see more of Campell in Action!!!

yup! your right Cambell is a big guy with an arm that can move and hopefuly he is smart. Sounds like a winning combo to me. As far as Ramsey, I think he will be with our old buddy Gus in Miami next year.

yeah bring on campbell, he needs a lot more reps to b a strter next year i think we have to syick with brunel until further notice......brunell will be at full strength to start the season not sure about after thT THOUGH!

You guys are hilarious. Joe Gibbs knows what he's looking at. I find it HILARIOUS and down right MIND BLOWING that you guys, sitting on your beer soaked buns, watching the games Once a Week, think you know who gave us the best chance to win over Joe Gibbs, a Hall of Fame Coach, who sees these guys on film, in practice, in meetings, and throughout the week.

How can you say with a straight face these things about Ramsey?

He was a career 74 Passer rating guy...and all you do is make excuses for him. He threw more picks in 7 games last year than Brunell threw in a WHOLE SEASON.

Sure Ramsey can make the throws, but Gibbs has said repeatedly "Any qb up here can make the throw when its open, but what makes good quarterbacks is determined by what they do when the play is not there." Therein lies the difference. Ramsey will take the sack or throw an interception, while Brunell will throw it away, run with the ball and keep our offense on the field.

It's called managing the game...and Brunell is far better at it. Is he more talented?? No, I would take Ramsey in the NFL Quarterback Challenge at the Pro Bowl, but in a game...Ramsey stinks...and Gibbs knows it.

We are talking about fixing the offense!!!How about getting Saunders to the Redskins!!!The guy is offensive master and has put K.C. offense ranked number one for the regular season!!!This is so freakin great!!!I can't wait to see our number eleven ranked offense to the number one spot for next year!!We have got to be on the way to the big one!!The super bowl is getting close to coming back!!!

Exactly Hogster. In the end, what it all comes down to is Joe Gibbs. He's the master, the savior, the guy who single handedly picked this team up, put it on his back, and dragged it back out of the sewer. He almost had us in the championship game with one freaking receiver, a banged up RB, and a banged up QB. After what this team did this year, how can anyone question the man?

Some of the old timers have been preaching the Gibbs way since the day they heard Gibbs was coming back. It took many of the younger and even some of the older guys awhile to see Gibbs for what he truly is. It boggles the mind how some are STILL questioning anything about what Joe Gibbs does!!!

We just signed one of the hottest HC candidates in the league people! Nobody but Joe Gibbs could have done that. The guy wanted to be a head coach. The Raiders wanted him to be their head coach. Somehow Joe managed to convince him that he'd be better off coming to washington. It's magic I tell you...

I'm not sure that it's magic to convince somebody not to take the head coach job in Oakland. The place is a graveyard - not even Shanahan could cope with the situation there. That's why they ended up with a desperate case like Norv Turner for the last two years.

Anyway, that's off topic. Gibbs remains a magician in any case.

1) There is no doubt that more production from the QB position could lift this team to a new level. However, more mistakes could still strain the team (and the defence in particular) to beyond breaking point. I'm excited about the prospect of seeing Campbell, but I can wait until Joe Gibbs decides the time is right.

2) We really can't afford to go around splashing huge money on free agent wide receivers. The Moss deal paid off big time, but I wouldn't risk going to that well again. One sensible free agent signing will be just as effective. In Moss, we have a Gary Clark. In Patten, we may have somebody who can play the Ricky Sanders role. Now we need the Art Monk type. Given the lack of credit that this type of player receives (hence Monk's disgraceful delayed induction to the Hall), this signing needn't be hugely expensive. Gibbs will be looking for the right player to fill the role - we really do not need to go out and sign the most expensive wide receiver we can find.

3) An improvement at tight end would be nice, as Royal is serviceable, at best. A liability, at worst.

The most important thing though is how Saunders is integrated into the organisation. Do it right, and this offence will fly, and without the pain of two years rebuilding the offence. As Gibbs is the man in charge, something tells me that we don't even need to discuss what happens if they get it wrong.

I work with Byrd's uncle here in Philly, and all I heard all year was how good he was... and, from what I saw, he is pretty good, he can catch and bruise some people, but doubt we will get him...

UK hits the nail on the head. Settle down Chaps. You guys are rushing Gibbs on Campbell....keep in mind Gibbs is the one who traded a ton to get him...he will see the field when the time is right.

I think that if Ramsey was not "ruined" by Spurrier and received the right coaching, he would be a pretty good QB. But that was then and this is now. I agree that he got "rooked" this year, he handled it very professionally, and let's move on.

Now, with Coach Saunders on board, it's time to get Campbell ready. I don't know what a players off-season consists of but if I were Campbell, I'd be knocking on Saunders and Musgrave's doors to get going. He should really make the effort to push Brunell and stake his claim as the starter. We all know that Brunell is "old" and is wearing down.

Some of you have asked for Reggie Wayne and a "quality" TE. I say that we are fine with what we got. If we get a quality #2 WR that is thrown to and can be productive, ey can fill that "TE" pass-catching role and Royal and Kozlozski can be "coached-up" to be better blockers and pass catchers.

The true keys to next year are at QB, #2 WR, and if Bugel can get the O-Line better. With Saunders onboard, Bugel can really focus on the O-line. Maybe we need to trim them down a little (15-20lbs each) to make them a little quicker on their blocks so Portis can get some room to run.

Here's another thought: Hire Mark Schlereth as the assistant O-Line coach and prep him to become the head O-Line Coach. He was here when we won our last Super Bowl and he was a intrical part of the Denver O-Line that blocked for Terrell Davis and Elway when they won their Super Bowls that started the dominating Denver running game....

I have watched some film on Campell and I think his Deep ball beats Brunell and Ramsey!


This statement is pretty funny because we all saw the film in the other forum room when Campbell had that nice throw to Jimmy Ferris against the 3rd string defense.

I am very happy with what the Redskins did this year. Hell, I just wanted them to have atleast an 8-8 record but they overacheaved in my book. I don't know if Ramsey would have done better or not but I do think that with Brunell we are quite limited. When I watch games I notice a big difference between our QB's and the frontrunners (Hasselbeck, Manning, Rothlesburger, etc.) We need so much improvement in that catagory its unbelievable. If our offense could get a little bit more production then our defense wouldnt have so much pressure to win the games for us. We will find that our defense will be even better next year.

I really don't see Pat. Ram being here next year. I think that he still has some trade value and some team like Oakland, Arizona, Cleveland, Baltimore, NY Jets, Miami, and New Orleans will find that he could come in and help their team. I think that he could come in next year and do just as good. What little bit we've seen from him this year hasn't allowed any of us to make a proper observation of his potential performance.

As far as preseason goes, Ramsey and Brunell both stunk it up. They were both just trying to hard.

All I know is our guys need to play hard week end and week out and trust each other. A #2 receiver wouldn't hurt either and a pass rushing D End.

I am confident in our coaching staff. I expect Saunders to give a fresh look at the QB situation.

I -hope- Patrick Ramsey does not come back to beat us, like Trent Green did, if and when he is traded.

Redskin in Canada wrote:I -hope- Patrick Ramsey does not come back to beat us, like Trent Green did, if and when he is traded.

The difference, of course, is that Green played pretty well in his only real playing time with the Redskins (81.8 rating in 15 games), while Ramsey hasn't shown a lot of improvement despite getting significant snaps in three of his four seasons. I just think the two quarterbacks are in different places. Ramsey's numbers are much more like Frerotte's, and at this point, it appears he will follow a similar career path.

You don't bring in an OC for that much money if you don't think things are significantly broken. I believe the loss of Randy Thomas and a dominant rushing game showed how miserable our passing game is without the play action. The first guy you reexamine is the QB.

Is Campbell ready, we won't know and the question can't even be addressed until training camp. With that as a fact, you have to decide what's best for the team in the long run. As a fan, I don't want our winning to tradition to end next year, especially seeing that Brunell's body is not holding on to much.

A fresh look at all 3 QBs, and seeing what looks best for the next few years. There's no guarantee that Campbell will amount to anything. There's no guarantee that Ramsey won't be a great player. Make no assumptions that Gibbs thinks that Ramsey won't be good, perhaps just he just wasn't ready due to the Fun 'n Gun messing with his head.

An open mind would even consider Ramsey 1, Campbell 2, and Brunell 3 next year. Wouldn't it be nice to have to YOUNG options to take us in the years to come, instead of standing at edge of a cliff hoping an old man won't get hurt AND still performs well?

I like the main points here from our very knowlegeable UK fan! I just wanted to add to this..

UK Skins Fan wrote:..The most important thing though is how Saunders is integrated into the organisation. Do it right, and this offence will fly, and without the pain of two years rebuilding the offence...

I would add that IMO this addition to the staff is simply that. Gibbs added a QB coach last year and (with Saunders hiring) another offensive mind to our stable. I think Gibbs is just adding to what he feels needs addressing and I would not look for change per se as much as some "fine tuning" to this offensive guru's planning process. Gotta love Gibbs!

Not a bad step for Al Saunders either - think he doesn't see the opportunity to come and be with Gibbs?

So yes - I think the most interesting part of this is that it is an addition and he will be a part of the overall scheme but not the scheme.