The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

1 Portis maintaining balance by holding on to lineman (Hickory Dickory Dockery?).

2 Gibbs THROWING on 1st and 10 just before 2 minute warning - a complete philosophical 180. and

3 Gibbs running 3 plays later on 3rd and 4 and Portis, etal., surging for the game clincher.

4 Brown blowing kisses on TD return.

DarthMonk wrote:1 Portis maintaining balance by holding on to lineman (Hickory Dickory Dockery?).

It was Mike Sellers.

Dockery can't even block with building blocks.

Hats off to gibbs? Do I hear someone calling my name??

DarthMonk wrote:2 Gibbs THROWING on 1st and 10 just before 2 minute warning - a complete philosophical 180. and

gibbs explained in his press conference that he only passed because the 2 minute warning was going to stop the clock anyway. he said, laughing, that there was no dang way he would have thrown the ball otherwise.

die cowboys die wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:2 Gibbs THROWING on 1st and 10 just before 2 minute warning - a complete philosophical 180. and

gibbs explained in his press conference that he only passed because the 2 minute warning was going to stop the clock anyway. he said, laughing, that there was no dang way he would have thrown the ball otherwise.

That was actually a VERY interesting comment he made. Note his laughter. I'm thinking that 3 weeks ago he'd have thought like so:

"I better not pass here cuz if we throw an incomplete then we'll stop the clock. Then it'll stop again at 2 minutes {if we run (or complete something inbounds!!)} and we might have 3rd and long with 2 minutes to go. Hmm. Better run."

Of course, a Norv move would be to throw 3 quick incompletes and punt before the 2 minute warning. This play was perfect. We run blocked it in a situation where we have historically always run and our boy Royal was wide open.

Speaking of Royal and Gibbs' response to his drop-itis:

"One does it with fear (Parcells) and the other does it with love. (Gibbs)". - John Madden

I saw a change in Gibbs Sunday.

DARTH

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Dockery can't even block with building blocks.

I'm sure Joe Bugel would disagree vehemently.

DARTH

DarthMonk wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Dockery can't even block with building blocks.

I'm sure Joe Bugel would disagree vehemently.

DARTH

The maybe Bugel didn't see that cornerback SHED DERRICKS BLOCK!!
That is inexcusable for a 300lb+ man.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Dockery can't even block with building blocks.

I'm sure Joe Bugel would disagree vehemently.

DARTH

The maybe Bugel didn't see that cornerback SHED DERRICKS BLOCK!!
That is inexcusable for a 300lb+ man.

I'm sure he did - if not live then on film Monday. And I'm sure he also saw a few pancakes of some bigger fellas. It's kinda hard for 300+ guys to stay on corners. Try blocking a chicken sometime. I wonder if Dock had anything to do with that last surging first down where Portis looked stopped. Probably just sealed some other 300+ guy off the backside or something stupid like that. Or the 28 plays Brunell faded back without getting sacked. Wonder if Dock had any good blocks on any of those plays. Oh wait - a corner got away form him once. He sucks. Sorry.

DARTH

DarthMonk wrote:I'm thinking that 3 weeks ago he'd have thought like so:

"I better not pass here cuz if we throw an incomplete then we'll stop the clock. Then it'll stop again at 2 minutes {if we run (or complete something inbounds!!)} and we might have 3rd and long with 2 minutes to go.
DARTH

Actually, I think the clock was at 2:03 or something. There was only time for one play before the two-minute warning. The clock was going to stop no matter what.

DarthMonk wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Dockery can't even block with building blocks.

I'm sure Joe Bugel would disagree vehemently.

DARTH

The maybe Bugel didn't see that cornerback SHED DERRICKS BLOCK!!
That is inexcusable for a 300lb+ man.

I'm sure he did - if not live then on film Monday. And I'm sure he also saw a few pancakes of some bigger fellas. It's kinda hard for 300+ guys to stay on corners. Try blocking a chicken sometime. I wonder if Dock had anything to do with that last surging first down where Portis looked stopped. Probably just sealed some other 300+ guy off the backside or something stupid like that. Or the 28 plays Brunell faded back without getting sacked. Wonder if Dock had any good blocks on any of those plays. Oh wait - a corner got away form him once. He sucks. Sorry.

DARTH

Yes he sucks. He sucks because I remeber the play where he was clearly engaged with a corner 150lbS+ lighter than him who broke free and tackled portis. Lets not mention his NUMEROUS false start penalties.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Dockery can't even block with building blocks.

I'm sure Joe Bugel would disagree vehemently.

DARTH

The maybe Bugel didn't see that cornerback SHED DERRICKS BLOCK!!
That is inexcusable for a 300lb+ man.

I'm sure he did - if not live then on film Monday. And I'm sure he also saw a few pancakes of some bigger fellas. It's kinda hard for 300+ guys to stay on corners. Try blocking a chicken sometime. I wonder if Dock had anything to do with that last surging first down where Portis looked stopped. Probably just sealed some other 300+ guy off the backside or something stupid like that. Or the 28 plays Brunell faded back without getting sacked. Wonder if Dock had any good blocks on any of those plays. Oh wait - a corner got away form him once. He sucks. Sorry.

DARTH

Yes he sucks. He sucks because I remeber the play where he was clearly engaged with a corner 150lbS+ lighter than him who broke free and tackled portis. Lets not mention his NUMEROUS false start penalties.

Hey Chris - Joe Jacoby NEVER false started and a corner who probably ran a 4.3 NEVER disengaged from him to make a tackle either.

I guess you suck when you are an all-American but make a few mistakes at the pro level.

I'll give you this much - Dockery can improve but to say he sucks is just silly.

Pah-leez.

Go Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeefs! Beat Giants!

DARTH

wbbradb wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:I'm thinking that 3 weeks ago he'd have thought like so:

"I better not pass here cuz if we throw an incomplete then we'll stop the clock. Then it'll stop again at 2 minutes {if we run (or complete something inbounds!!)} and we might have 3rd and long with 2 minutes to go.
DARTH

Actually, I think the clock was at 2:03 or something. There was only time for one play before the two-minute warning. The clock was going to stop no matter what.

When Royall was tackled there was 1:59 left. A drop would have ocurred around 2:02. Woulda been tight.

DARTH

wbbradb wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:I'm thinking that 3 weeks ago he'd have thought like so:

"I better not pass here cuz if we throw an incomplete then we'll stop the clock. Then it'll stop again at 2 minutes {if we run (or complete something inbounds!!)} and we might have 3rd and long with 2 minutes to go.
DARTH

Actually, I think the clock was at 2:03 or something. There was only time for one play before the two-minute warning. The clock was going to stop no matter what.

Actually, NOW YOU ARE STARTING TO CHANGE MY MIND! Maybe Gibbs hasn't changed one iota. Or maybe just a little. I'll change from "philospphical 180" to "left turn."

Thanks,

DARTH

DarthMonk wrote:Hey Chris - Joe Jacoby NEVER false started and a corner who probably ran a 4.3 NEVER disengaged from him to make a tackle either.

I guess you suck when you are an all-American but make a few mistakes at the pro level.

I'll give you this much - Dockery can improve but to say he sucks is just silly.

Pah-leez.

Go Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeefs! Beat Giants!

DARTH

Dockery isn't an All-American and he's not just making a few mistakes. We've been hoping that he would improve since he first started getting regular playing time a few years ago. At this point, he seems to have little upside left, if any. . .and that in combination with all of the penalties (CLL is right on the false starts) and missed assignments gets to me.

I hope we see a different solution than Dockery to our weakness on the O-line next year.

FanfromAnnapolis wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:Hey Chris - Joe Jacoby NEVER false started and a corner who probably ran a 4.3 NEVER disengaged from him to make a tackle either.

I guess you suck when you are an all-American but make a few mistakes at the pro level.

I'll give you this much - Dockery can improve but to say he sucks is just silly.

Pah-leez.

Go Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeefs! Beat Giants!

DARTH

Dockery isn't an All-American and he's not just making a few mistakes. We've been hoping that he would improve since he first started getting regular playing time a few years ago. At this point, he seems to have little upside left, if any. . .and that in combination with all of the penalties (CLL is right on the false starts) and missed assignments gets to me.

I hope we see a different solution than Dockery to our weakness on the O-line next year.

From the Redskins homepage:

College/Personal:

"He earned consensus first-team All-America honors and was a first-team All-Big 12 choice in 2002 from the University of Texas. He was also an Outland Trophy semi-finalist (the award given to the nation's top lineman).

He played in 52 games, starting 31 contests during his collegiate career.

As a senior, Dockery started all 13 games, seven at right guard and six at right tackle and became UT's 40th consensus All-American (15th offensive lineman) after earning first-team honors from The Associated Press, Football Writers Association of America and Walter Camp Football Foundation. He also earned fourth-team All-America accolades from The Sporting News."

I know none of this makes him a good pro but these are the facts. He IS an all-American and saying he sucks is flat out wrong.

Joe Bugel says his upside is "unlimited." I'd like to see our solution at left guard to be a young and improved Dockery. It's time (and Gibbs has begun this process) we stop cherry picking so much and start growing our own. Dockery is also a GREAT character guy in the mold of Monk and Green. I'll take him over most.

DD may have been a AA coming into the league but that stop being important when he became a pro. He was at the top of the food chain when it was the NCAA now it's the NFL and he has been a disappointment to say the least.

He has plenty of upside I'll agree for two reasons, (1) He is young. and (2) He can't get much worst and stay in the league (up is the only way he can go). I think he will make a better back up than starter based on the last few years.

1niksder wrote:DD may have been a AA coming into the league but that stop being important when he became a pro. He was at the top of the food chain when it was the NCAA now it's the NFL and he has been a disappointment to say the least.

He has plenty of upside I'll agree for two reasons, (1) He is young. and (2) He can't get much worst and stay in the league (up is the only way he can go). I think he will make a better back up than starter based on the last few years.

Fair enough. A bit harsh IMHO but well put. It would be neat to see how he is grading out with Bugel during the Monday film sessions.

DARTH

DarthMonk wrote:Hey Chris - Joe Jacoby NEVER false started

You forgot to add in /sarcasm. Joe false false started, of course he did. "Joe Jacoby NEVER false started as much as DD has" would have been a true statement. If DD was an aggressive run blocker it could be overlooked but he's average at best and makes mistakes. You can't be mediocre and a detriment to the team. If he was as good as Joe then he could do that false start thing.

DarthMonk wrote:and a corner who probably ran a 4.3 NEVER disengaged from him to make a tackle either.

Seriously I DOUBT that out of 1000 times that a corner could break a block from Joe. 4.3? Whats that got to do with anything. Wuts that speed going to do when you're engage in a block? He's not running a 4.3 50 yard dash with a 300+ lineman on his back. DD was engaged in a block with someone 100lb+ lighter and was out MUSCLED! Not out ran.

DarthMonk wrote:I guess you suck when you are an all-American but make a few mistakes at the pro level.

College has nothing to do with the NFL. I had a year of perfect attendance in elem school, now if Im late for work everyday will my boss FORGIVE me cus I had perfect attendance in elem school?

Explain Ryan Leaf.

DarthMonk wrote:I'll give you this much - Dockery can improve but to say he sucks is just silly.

DD sucks. But he's a skin, so I root for him. I hope he's a backup next year.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:Hey Chris - Joe Jacoby NEVER false started

You forgot to add in /sarcasm. Joe false false started, of course he did. "Joe Jacoby NEVER false started as much as DD has" would have been a true statement. If DD was an aggressive run blocker it could be overlooked but he's average at best and makes mistakes. You can't be mediocre and a detriment to the team. If he was as good as Joe then he could do that false start thing.

DarthMonk wrote:and a corner who probably ran a 4.3 NEVER disengaged from him to make a tackle either.

Seriously I DOUBT that out of 1000 times that a corner could break a block from Joe. 4.3? Whats that got to do with anything. Wuts that speed going to do when you're engage in a block? He's not running a 4.3 50 yard dash with a 300+ lineman on his back. DD was engaged in a block with someone 100lb+ lighter and was out MUSCLED! Not out ran.

DarthMonk wrote:I guess you suck when you are an all-American but make a few mistakes at the pro level.

College has nothing to do with the NFL. I had a year of perfect attendance in elem school, now if Im late for work everyday will my boss FORGIVE me cus I had perfect attendance in elem school?

Explain Ryan Leaf.

DarthMonk wrote:I'll give you this much - Dockery can improve but to say he sucks is just silly.

DD sucks. But he's a skin, so I root for him. I hope he's a backup next year.

Quite naturally i disagree with about all of this.

I WAS being sarcastic about Jacoby. Touche.

Speed has a HECKUVA LOT to do with it. Unless Jacoby or any other NFL lineman HOLDS, the corner easily runs off the block. I coached O-line and DBs and played corner and it's a fact. We teach O-linemen to hit. Not even Jake could continuously "engage" a corner. Give me a break. You are wrong on this one ... and DD simply was not outmuscled. I've seen corners actually destroy blocks by all-PRO tackles by chopping. We teach them to give up their bodies on a sweep for instance in order to clear the way for the linebackers if necessary. No corner out muscles DD ... gets away ("disengages") or makes a good play maybe but not out muscles.

I agree with you that being an all-American has nothing to do with the pros but you said (I think it was you, sorry if not) "He's not an all-American." That is incorrect and I'm just setting the record straight on that one.

As I said, I agree that "all-American" and "good pro" do not necessarily correlate. I am not arguing for Ryan Leaf. Bad character guy by the way. Probably wasn't even really that good in college actually.

Finally, I think you are being overly harsh with the "sucks" rating, that's all. It actually would be cool it DD were a back-up next year because that would mean we would have someone darn good in that spot. What I hope for more though is this:

I hope your asessment is wrong and that he is grading out pretty well with Bugel during film review on Mondays and that he continues to improve and that next year he starts and gives you fewer reasons to say "he sucks" and more reasons to say "I'm glad he's starting for us."

DARTH