The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Is it time? Nothing against Brunell, this team obviously has more problems, but Is it time to start getting him reps and some experiance. Season isnt totaly lost, we could get him some experiance and know the cowgirls out of the playoffs...

I totally agree!! but there is already post about this. Titled - Redskins next move....

Man, some of you guys just crack me up.

Yes, I am as frustrated as any Skins fan, but come guys...

I wouldn't mind, were not going to win this year, we might as well prepare for the future.

nope.. dont want to traumatize the kid right now, the line isnt necessarily healthy and who knows what could happen if we throw him into the fire right now, dont want to stunt his growth cus he may be our only hope to return to the glory days

You mean, "Gorey Days"...don't you ?

I AM GETTING SO TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT JASON CAMPBELL......THE PACKERS ARE 2-9 AND THEY ARE STILL STICKING WITH THEIR BEST QB...WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, BRUNELL IS OUR BEST QB......I SAY WE HAVE A CHANCE TO GO 9-7, SO LEWT THE BEST QB START.....

air_hog wrote:ROTFALMAO

Man, some of you guys just crack me up.

Yes, I am as frustrated as any Skins fan, but come guys...

I dont know whats so funny about it. I think its a legit question. I mean i agree mabye that this topic was a little fueled by the blinding rage of the last 3 losses, and i know mark B. probably gives up the best chance to win now, and Joe Gibbs would never pull him untill we're mathmatically eliminated, and it would signal that we are effectivaly giving up on the season. So yes i agree at first glance it doesnt sound like a good option. however... the kid is going to need to get his reps sometime. Yes he'll make mistakes and yes he may struggle. But look at Peyton or even Eli. They ended up playing at least some significant time in their first year. Or look at Big ben.. His own O lineman said publically that he didnt want a rookie qb starting.. well look what happened. All i know is Mark Brunell is definatly slowing down as the season progresses, and next year he'll be just another year older. We invested a 1st and 3rd round pick on this player and i really dont want him sitting on the bench for 2 years. But hey i am all for whatevers good for the team so i totally see your argument also. Dont want the kid to get shell shocked. Just wanted you to know im not some Hater whos just flaming. just wanted some open dialouge about the possibility...

spenser wrote:

air_hog wrote:ROTFALMAO

Man, some of you guys just crack me up.

Yes, I am as frustrated as any Skins fan, but come guys...

I dont know whats so funny about it. I think its a legit question. I mean i agree mabye that this topic was a little fueled by the blinding rage of the last 3 losses, and i know mark B. probably gives up the best chance to win now, and Joe Gibbs would never pull him untill we're mathmatically eliminated, and it would signal that we are effectivaly giving up on the season. So yes i agree at first glance it doesnt sound like a good option. however... the kid is going to need to get his reps sometime.

That's exactly right - he's got to get his baptism under fire sometime, and do we want it this year, when the season is basically shot (yes, it's shot - admit it, people), or next year, when we'll have a fresh start? Everyone talks about next year being the turn-around year, but it's going to be a lot tougher to turn it around next year if JC has 0 starts under his belt. I say play the kid NOW, or next season is just going to be another "building year" (translation: no playoffs, again).

You guys have a point from an outsiders position.

You guys aren't on the team. You all arent putting your bodies and lives on the line everyday. You all aren't a coach that has morale to keep high and players to answer to.

What would it look like for Gibbs to give up on his players? Answer me that. Doing that right now would be devastating to team morale. Remeber Spurrier and how nobody bought into his beliefs? Remeber how he gave up on the team?!?!? No of course you dont. A lot of you guys are blind to that stuff. All that matters to most of you is a W. I recognize the team that we have. We have a team now and we haven't had one of those in about a decade. I love this roster even with its issues because we're a contender now, we have life and goals.

HAIL TO THE REDSKINS AND SCREW THE HATERS. Fair weather fans fall to the way side. The bandwagon is hauling you know wut down victory lane!

This team is victorius regardless of wut you guys may think!

CLL, your new habbit of writing "wut" instead of "what" is scaring me.


We shouldn't play Campbell at any point this season (aside from injuries to our other 2 QBs) for the same reason that we should never, ever, ever play to lose a game so that we can "get a higher draft pick."

Some fans don't look 2 feet beyond their noses; I'm glad our coaches do.

FanfromAnnapolis wrote:CLL, your new habbit of writing "wut" instead of "what" is scaring me.


We shouldn't play Campbell at any point this season (aside from injuries to our other 2 QBs) for the same reason that we should never, ever, ever play to lose a game so that we can "get a higher draft pick."

Some fans don't look 2 feet beyond their noses; I'm glad our coaches do.

How is playing JC playing to lose? The kid's a first-round pick from a great team. If he can't play, why'd we trade so much to get him?

I didn't say that playing JC (hmm. . .) was playing to lose. I said that we shouldn't play him for the same reasons that we shouldn't lose to get a better draft pick.

A team should never not try its best on any given Sunday. There is a difference between playing to lose and not playing your best. Right now, Mark Brunell gives us the best chance to win (not to mention Patrick Ramsey being our 2nd!), and playing Jason Campbell would in that sense not be trying our best to win.

The thing I'm getting at in both examples is: Not trying to play well this season, no matter what a coaches / owners intentions are, is going to be worse in the long run than getting a better draft pick or helping that rookie QB come along as a player. There are all kinds of factors at play here beyond getting Jason experience. (And, right now, one of those factors is the playoffs!!)

Chris Luva Luva wrote:You guys have a point from an outsiders position.

You guys aren't on the team. You all arent putting your bodies and lives on the line everyday. You all aren't a coach that has morale to keep high and players to answer to.

What would it look like for Gibbs to give up on his players? Answer me that. Doing that right now would be devastating to team morale. Remeber Spurrier and how nobody bought into his beliefs? Remeber how he gave up on the team?!?!? No of course you dont. A lot of you guys are blind to that stuff. All that matters to most of you is a W. I recognize the team that we have. We have a team now and we haven't had one of those in about a decade. I love this roster even with its issues because we're a contender now, we have life and goals.

HAIL TO THE REDSKINS AND SCREW THE HATERS. Fair weather fans fall to the way side. The bandwagon is hauling you know wut down victory lane!

This team is victorius regardless of wut you guys may think!

This post is wrong on so many levels. Yes WE are outsiders, thats includes you also, unless you have some role on the team i dont know about? As far as what it would look like for Gibbs giving up on his players? well it might look a lot like what Marvin Lewis did when he started Carson Palmer after jon Kitna had a GREAT season. knowing that if they drafted him to be the future and spent a high pick on him, that he would need to actually play football. Oh and for your "we dont remember Spurrier" comment.. I have every game taped and ive wathed them more than a few times, so i remember VERY clearly how he gave up on the team, giving up play calling duties and the like. Just because i think that MABYE we should start JC doesnt mean i somehow FORGOT the last 10 years of football. That makes no sense. Also even if the past skins teams sucked and had no heart, they still had LIFE and certainly had GOALS, so im not to sure where that came from. One last thing to be clear. I am no hater. I consistantly give MAD LOVE TO THE SKINS!!!! It kills me how just because someone is pissed, or has an opinion on where the team is headed that they are a hater. For the most part I totally agree with you. we shouldnt start Campbell this week, but if we lose this week or next? then what? IF and when the season is shot do we keep running 34 year old Mark Brunell out there? Or do we give the kid we spent 2 first day draft picks on some learning experiance? Thats ALL im saying! I love the roster, i love the coach and the direction the team is headed in.

"The team is victorious regardless of wut you guys may think!"

Actually, victory is a rather concrete standard--you win or you don't...moral victories are cool and all, but you know what, all anyone in the NFL cares about is wins.

Having said that, I will reiterate what I've been saying the whole time...this team is better than it's been in awhile...but a contender? Really? Are the vikings a contender--they have a better record than we have, and have run off 4 in a row with a backup qb...

Now, all this talk of giving up on the team is one of the best smokescreens in sports...how are you giving up on the team by bringing in the quarterback of the future and letting him get used to his new team? Throwing him into the fire with his teammates is not a terrible idea, unless you believe that Brunell is going to be productive for the next 5 years? The point, as always, is that you have to build contenders, and Coach Gibbs has begun the process slowly...the next step MAY be to play the rookie qb, and let him learn the game in a more high pressure situation...after all, this kid did learn 4 offensive systems in 4 years, a new one in a year in which his team went undefeated...

I'm also wondering how anyone knows what switching to Jason Campbell would do to team morale unless they're on the team...the Jags didn't stop playing when Byron Leftwich took over...neither did the Giants with Eli....football players are tough...they're egos may be bloated and fragile, but they know the game better than any of us do, and they recognize that if a move is better for the team, then thats the right one...

so, having said all that, if we drop the next game to the rams, i say play campbell through the end of the season, assuming he is at all ready...

weneedcharlesmann said:

so, having said all that, if we drop the next game to the rams, i say play campbell through the end of the season, assuming he is at all ready...

My guess is that he'll be ready when Gibbs thinks he knows the playbook inside out, and when the team can absorb an inexperienced quarterback without going into meltdown. I honestly don't think you throw Campbell in there this season at all, unless injuries make it happen. It's so easy to sit here as fans and think that a rookie qb is going to provide a spark, or that the experience will make him a better player sooner. Well, the jury is out on that one. It could also throw his develpoment back by a season, if all he does is get beaten up by defensive ends or booed by the crowd at Fedex after 6 straight incompletions.

For what it's worth, I believe you play to win now. That means playing the best quarterback that we have at this time. Right now, Brunell is our best, followed by Ramsey and then Campbell. Putting Campbell in now sends the message to the team that this season is over, and is just an audition for the rookie. This team will only get better by playing hard every week, with the best players on the field. Otherwise, let's start Jimoh at cornerback just to see if he might develop into something?!

The problem with the 'keep Campbell on the bench' argument is that he's not just a rookie - he's a first-rounder for which we traded three picks! We've invested heavily in this guy, and when are we going to see a dividend? Brunell isn't getting any younger, and Gibbs obviously has no confidence in Ramsey, so if JC is the future of this team, when are we going to start the development process? Everyone talks about next year being the big break-out year for the 'skins under Gibbs, but how many teams (aside from last year's Steelers, who had a lot of talent to help Big Ben along) have made a strong playoff push with a QB making his first starts that same season?

So you don't think Brunell will be the starter next year? I think Joe Gibbs probably does. But, regardless of who the starter is, Campbell will play next year - he'll either be the starter or the number two and see plenty of action off the bench. Just my opinion.

You are acting like we are out of the playoffs. Remember last year. It came down to the 2nd to the last game or even maybee the last game to decide who was going to the playoffs. Remember we are only two games out of tied for 1st place. We can do it. Especially with Rams and Cards on our next two games.

The Giants have Dallas and Philly on their next two.

Dallas has Giants and KC on their next two.

Philly has Seattle and Giants. Good matchups. I think all in our favor.

Lets say that Philly looses all those, still the GMen have KC then us after that and finish with Oakland. Cowpukes have us, Carolina, and St. Louis to finish the season out.

We still have a chance but none of this playing at or below the level of the competition. We need to come out there and blow it up. Week in and week out. No more playing not to loose. We need to play to win.

frankcal20 wrote:You are acting like we are out of the playoffs.

Yes, because we are. The playoffs are for teams that don't give the game away in the 4th quarter three weeks in a row. What exactly about this 2-6 skid says "playoff team" to you? Playoffs would require 5 in a row, which this team hasn't done since Marty was here. Yes, I'd love to see it, but I can't honestly say I expect it.

FanfromAnnapolis wrote:The thing I'm getting at in both examples is: Not trying to play well this season, no matter what a coaches / owners intentions are, is going to be worse in the long run than getting a better draft pick or helping that rookie QB come along as a player. There are all kinds of factors at play here beyond getting Jason experience. (And, right now, one of those factors is the playoffs!!)

The only goal of any franchise should be to win a championship, period. If the Redskins are mathematically eliminated, it would be foolish not to give Campbell or even Ramsey some playing time. We might not be putting our best team on the field in Weeks 16 and 17, but it will put this franchise in a better position to win games in the future.

In my mind, if the Redskins lose to either the Rams or Cardinals, we can safely assume that this season is a lost cause. If Campbell isn't ready to take snaps, give them to Ramsey. But continuing to play Brunell once this season is, for all intents and purposes, over, would be pointless.

Campbell is going to have to take his lumps at some point. I would much rather have him struggling in 2005 when the games don't matter than in 2006 or 2007 when they do matter.

FanfromAnnapolis wrote:A team should never not try its best on any given Sunday.

In theory, this is a great philosophy. But in practice, it just doesn't make sense.

In 1991, the 14-1 Redskins pulled most of their starters at halftime against the Eagles. The ended up losing the game. Do you believe Gibbs was wrong to rest his best players for the Super Bowl run?

A franchise must always be working towards the goal of winning a championship. And as much as we don't like to talk about it, sometimes a team has to sacrifice the present in order to be better in the future.

Steve Spurrier III wrote:Campbell is going to have to take his lumps at some point. I would much rather have him struggling in 2005 when the games don't matter than in 2006 or 2007 when they do matter.

Exactly!!! Play the kid!!!

I agree with the play Campbell crowd. You can say all day that you want to win games, but the key is to win a super bowl. Playoffs, regular season wins, pro bowls are all inferior accomplishments to winning championships. I recognize that there may still be people who think the Skins are a legitimate Super Bowl contender, but I think more people would look at them and see at best a work in progress. The point is that we should be excited about that and work towards that. Listen, if Campbell is an idiot, who simply has not picked anything up from here (though, I wonder how complex the offense can be, since every team we've played since the giants have seemed to be able to key on it), then, fine, don't play him. But we all at least hope that that's not the case.

This is not a Ramsey situation. Spurrier's blocking schemes put a lot of pressure on the QB to make the right read incredibly fast...no young qb could do that. On the other hand, our line is at least more solid now than it was then, and our blocking schemes seem slanted towards more blockers than fewer (though I think we're going to have to get away from that a little bit as well). So, the danger of Campbell being ruined by playing the last few games doesn't come from the field really, it'll come from the media and the fans. Let the kid go out there and take a few hits, make a few reads, and throw some balls. The talent around him is there...people can say what they want about Portis, but he has demonstrated an ability to be an elite back if used properly...Moss has shown that he can get open if not triple covered, and ey has proven an effective receiver from the H-back spot. As for Taylor Jacobs, I was just happy to actually see him in a regular season game without getting hurt, and I still think he could be alright.

If you get Campbell in there, and perhaps diversify the offense a little, there's no reason why our offense can't be the strength of our team, instead of having to rely on a defense that at times looks dominant, and other times looks soft...of course, that probably won't happen this year, but who cares...I'm a skins fan for life, and i'm willing to wait for my dominant team, cause I know it's possible, but only if we take a long term view of things....

Steve Spurrier III wrote:

FanfromAnnapolis wrote:The thing I'm getting at in both examples is: Not trying to play well this season, no matter what a coaches / owners intentions are, is going to be worse in the long run than getting a better draft pick or helping that rookie QB come along as a player. There are all kinds of factors at play here beyond getting Jason experience. (And, right now, one of those factors is the playoffs!!)

The only goal of any franchise should be to win a championship, period. If the Redskins are mathematically eliminated, it would be foolish not to give Campbell or even Ramsey some playing time. We might not be putting our best team on the field in Weeks 16 and 17, but it will put this franchise in a better position to win games in the future.

In my mind, if the Redskins lose to either the Rams or Cardinals, we can safely assume that this season is a lost cause. If Campbell isn't ready to take snaps, give them to Ramsey. But continuing to play Brunell once this season is, for all intents and purposes, over, would be pointless.

Campbell is going to have to take his lumps at some point. I would much rather have him struggling in 2005 when the games don't matter than in 2006 or 2007 when they do matter.

FanfromAnnapolis wrote:A team should never not try its best on any given Sunday.

In theory, this is a great philosophy. But in practice, it just doesn't make sense.

In 1991, the 14-1 Redskins pulled most of their starters at halftime against the Eagles. The ended up losing the game. Do you believe Gibbs was wrong to rest his best players for the Super Bowl run?

A franchise must always be working towards the goal of winning a championship. And as much as we don't like to talk about it, sometimes a team has to sacrifice the present in order to be better in the future.

last i checked the redskins arent mathmatically eliminated. therefore the is no reason to give up the season yet. that would be stupid. i agree, if we are eliminated let jc play take some snaps. but we HAVENT BEEN ELIMINATED. thats the bottom line.

Ok, let's say the redskins win 5 games, and squeak into the playoffs...let's even say we go through and win the NFC (practically speaking, this would be tough, but assuming)...at that point, we're in the super bowl, playing the colts....objectively, without all the talk about how great Coach Gibbs is, etc, but objectively, do you think it's realistic that we beat them?

So, then, on the basis of a 10-6 record, we would be the Super Bowl runner up...pretty impressive, I admit, but not the goal...so, then, next year, we come in with either an older Brunell, or a completely inexperienced Campbell, going through the season, while the Giants have a more experienced Eli Manning, the Cowboys with another year, and the Eagles with Mcnabb and w/o the TO distraction...we have a panthers team that just gets better, and a bears team with a more comfortable kyle orton...perhaps we squeak into the playoffs again, but now, we're playing much better nfc teams, and we still have a qb situation...how long do you want to go in teh cycle? That's essentially the rams situation, and I don't want...this is the Redskins we're talking about, damnit, and it's Super Bowl or nothing...whatever brings us closer to that is the move that should be made....