The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Look, I know yesterdays game was a stinker all the way around and there were breakdowns at every position and I am not laying this loss on our Defense at all but I gotta know one thing.WHY are we getting killed by long running plays EVERY week.They are killing us.We don't seem to be addressing this as every game it is happening.Don't get to see every game here and thought maybe some of you could explain this phenomenom to me.I am not implying that stopping Tiki's long runs yesterday would have made a difference,because I don't think it would have as bad as we played as a whole.We also seem to be allowing alot of 3rd and long conversions lately.Anyone with any insight? Maybe I'm just hurting too much from yesterday's embarrassment and need to rant a little

soco18 wrote:WHY are we getting killed by long running plays EVERY week?

I paid A LOT of attention to this yesterday and my answer is:

The secondary is taking VERY POOR angles to stop the runs!

Sure, the Skins brokedown on every single unit yesterday from the lines onward. But the secondary played the run as poorly as they have all year long.

ANOTHER POINT:

I watched the interview with Tiki Barber after the game when he was already out of the dressing room with a suit and tie. He said something like (i quote loosely):

"Antonio Pierce was of great assistance to us to prepare for this game. He told us how their defense plays. They have four or five plays that we were able to read on the field."

Did anybody else see this? I remember that there was some concern about our coaching staff about Hasselbeck and Pierce reading and passing along our signals and plays to their team.

The truth: I think that Giants played a great game yesterday. Those turnovers killed us as usual. But I also feel that Hasselbeck and Pierce helped them prepare specifically against our plays.

TRAITORS!!!

I asked that ? about Pierce last week and the replies varied,but most thought that their knowledge of our system would not matter that much.I do think it helped them some,but the Giants just played very well and,well,let's just say,we DIDN'T !

Redskin in Canada wrote:..The secondary is taking VERY POOR angles to stop the runs!

Agreed! I think that coupled with the very poor tackling from the secondary. It seemed to me that aside from some well designed plays by the g-strings we just had a terrible effort from the secondary. If the back gets by the first line these guys are meant to put them on the ground.
I saw a lot of missed tackles and, as RiC points out, some very bad angles from our secondary yesterday.

..I think that the Giants played a great game yesterday. Those turnovers killed us as usual. But I also feel that Hasselbeck and Pierce helped them prepare specifically against our plays.

I agree a little but these coaches were well aware of that possibility and are too good not to have made adjustments. This happens in today's NFL and you have to take these things into consideration - I think it helped them especially the positions they had with us BUT we just had a very bad effort from everyone yesterday, including the coaches.


The good news is it was only 1 game and we all know that we are better than that exhibition we saw yesterday. I do not think that the g-strings can play much better than that but I do know that we cannot play much worse. We are still "in" the NFC East race and I still think that, based on what we are seeing from other teams, we are still in the top 5 in the NFC. We will see a much better effort from the iggles also next week but they are not nearly as good as they used to be, and the 49r's beat the Bucs!!

I am still thinking that this team is very capable of 10-6. Not the team we saw yesterday but we have excellent coaches and the players are going to be much better prepared than what we saw.

The Gap system Greg William runs leaves no room for error. It's the same kind of system that Marvin Lewis ran, and it either shuts down the run completely, or it gives up huge runs. Every man in the front seven has a gap he is responsible for, and if he doesn't make the tackle, its up to our db's. When they take bad angles, Tiki runs for 205 yards. It's that simple.

Redskin in Canada wrote:TRAITORS!!!

RiC:
WE let them go.
WE took the chance.
WE played like crap.
WE deserved to lose that game.
WE did.
WE will get back up again.

If it looked like the Giants knew what plays the visitors were going to run, well, their middle linebacker, ex-Redskin Antonio Pierce, might have had something to do with that. Players traditionally turn in their playbooks when they leave a team, but you have to wonder if Pierce didn't make a side trip to Kinko's first -- for some surreptitious photocopying -- before dropping off his binder in Ashburn. The Redskins gained just 125 yards, converted only two of 12 third downs and gave up five sacks -- in addition to the turnovers. Shades of last season.

Pierce even gave the Giants offense some valuable input, according to Barber, whose 206 rushing yards were a career best. "He told us they line up against five plays they think you're going to run, and those are the plays they stop," Tiki said. "So we went against our tendencies a little bit, especially early in the game."

http://www.washtimes.com/sports/2005103 ... _page2.htm

SkinsJock wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:..The secondary is taking VERY POOR angles to stop the runs!

Agreed! I think that coupled with the very poor tackling from the secondary. It seemed to me that aside from some well designed plays by the g-strings we just had a terrible effort from the secondary. If the back gets by the first line these guys are meant to put them on the ground.
I saw a lot of missed tackles and, as RiC points out, some very bad angles from our secondary yesterday.

..I think that the Giants played a great game yesterday. Those turnovers killed us as usual. But I also feel that Hasselbeck and Pierce helped them prepare specifically against our plays.

I agree a little but these coaches were well aware of that possibility and are too good not to have made adjustments. This happens in today's NFL and you have to take these things into consideration - I think it helped them especially the positions they had with us BUT we just had a very bad effort from everyone yesterday, including the coaches.


The good news is it was only 1 game and we all know that we are better than that exhibition we saw yesterday. I do not think that the g-strings can play much better than that but I do know that we cannot play much worse. We are still "in" the NFC East race and I still think that, based on what we are seeing from other teams, we are still in the top 5 in the NFC. We will see a much better effort from the iggles also next week but they are not nearly as good as they used to be, and the 49r's beat the Bucs!!

I am still thinking that this team is very capable of 10-6. Not the team we saw yesterday but we have excellent coaches and the players are going to be much better prepared than what we saw.

Good teams are prepared every week. It is difficult to win in the NFL and this league follows an "eb and flow" Case in point, Denver came into yesterday after suffering a loss to NYG where they had them on the ropes the whole game and philly stole a game from the jaws of defeat vs. SD. Eb and flow says denver in a lock. plenty of credit to philly for fighting back but the eb and flow wins out. Philly is a better team than NYG and they are desparate. I love my Skins, but I think the dream stops here. This week, above all, will tell us about the character and talent level of redskins '05.

Hail

Wilbon:

No doubt, Antonio Pierce helped his new team with as much intel as possible on his old team during the week. The Giants felt from the first defensive series they knew what the Redskins were going to run. In fact, at times they were calling out the plays as the Redskins were about to snap the ball. Good for Pierce. The Redskins ought to be hurt in a tangible way by always adoring somebody else's players and not recognizing when they've got The Man already on their roster. What sweet revenge for him.

But this wasn't exclusively about sound spy work and Giants preparation; I counted eight dropped passes by the Redskins.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 106_2.html

We need to tackle, we need to block, we need to catch.

They did!

Maybe they had some "inside" info, but if we do the basics, even some of the time, we do not look that bad.

It still only counts as a loss and if it serves as a wake up call (or shout!) then we will be better for it.
We are not that bad - we just played a terrible game.
We need to play with some fire and determination next week.




We need to tackle, we need to block and we need to catch.

Greetings from NYC: It appears that our safty Sean Taylor is coming up inside to quickly to help on the run and the back is starting inside then bouncing outside. Nothing a little patience and a little coaching cannot solve.
On the issue of the aint's knowing our plays I seem to remember that everyone knew we were going to run the counter tray in the late 80's. Joe Gibbs knows how to change formations to disrupte a defense.Have faith it just one of those days. We will rebound this Sunday when the Eagles come to town.

The Giants players are telling the world that they knew what was coming mostly because of Pierce. Listen up guys, they are telling you why they won!

Redskin in Canada wrote:Wilbon:

No doubt, Antonio Pierce helped his new team with as much intel as possible on his old team during the week. The Giants felt from the first defensive series they knew what the Redskins were going to run. In fact, at times they were calling out the plays as the Redskins were about to snap the ball. Good for Pierce. The Redskins ought to be hurt in a tangible way by always adoring somebody else's players and not recognizing when they've got The Man already on their roster. What sweet revenge for him.

But this wasn't exclusively about sound spy work and Giants preparation; I counted eight dropped passes by the Redskins.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 106_2.html

wilbon probably just has his panties in a bunch because pierce is black, and we let a black player go! everything is about race to wilbon.

as far as our run defense, if we don't get this problem fixed NOW, i am ready to write this season down as another 6-10.

Have you guys seen the same play that breaks us? I could have sworn that for about 3 times this year. The offensive line pushes right and the running back takes a few steps that way and then cuts back left and HE GONE! I could have sworn the giants ran that play on us for both of Tiki's big runs. San Fran got us with that and If I remember correctly Alexander broke one like that as well.

I could be mistaken but I figured I'd ask.

Redskins Rule wrote:Have you guys seen the same play that breaks us? I could have sworn that for about 3 times this year. The offensive line pushes right and the running back takes a few steps that way and then cuts back left and HE GONE! I could have sworn the giants ran that play on us for both of Tiki's big runs. San Fran got us with that and If I remember correctly Alexander broke one like that as well.

I could be mistaken but I figured I'd ask.

It sounds right, but I usually don't like reliving those moments in replay.

VASkin27 wrote:The Gap system Greg William runs leaves no room for error. It's the same kind of system that Marvin Lewis ran, and it either shuts down the run completely, or it gives up huge runs. Every man in the front seven has a gap he is responsible for, and if he doesn't make the tackle, its up to our db's. When they take bad angles, Tiki runs for 205 yards. It's that simple.

You may be right but the difference is that when Marvin Lewis was in Baltimore, he had athletes that he allowed and really wanted to make plays. This defense, in my opinion, does not play with that hunger and energy that the Ravens and other top defenses play with. They don't go balls-to-the-wall to the ball. They don't have that swagger. Also, the difference between that Ravens defense and ours is that everyone on that defense can tackle. Not arm tackling but helmet on somebody tackling.

Plus, everyone wants to down play what Pierce and Hasselbeck knew/know but it has some merit. Their knowledge of what we did last year helped them tremandously. Our defense gave up big plays and the offense couldn't do anything against the 31st ranked defense.

They bassically saw something in our D that was weak, and exploited it. And just like every other fan we saw the same thing but didnt say much cause we were winning. The left side is real weak when it comes to stopping the run. Yes we had a lot of miss tackles but Warrick Holdman is garbage, he does nothing on the feild but get in the way. And i see it as a fan you know other teams see the same thing.

Redskin in Canada wrote:

soco18 wrote:WHY are we getting killed by long running plays EVERY week?

I paid A LOT of attention to this yesterday and my answer is:

The secondary is taking VERY POOR angles to stop the runs!

Sure, the Skins brokedown on every single unit yesterday from the lines onward. But the secondary played the run as poorly as they have all year long.

ANOTHER POINT:

I watched the interview with Tiki Barber after the game when he was already out of the dressing room with a suit and tie. He said something like (i quote loosely):

"Antonio Pierce was of great assistance to us to prepare for this game. He told us how their defense plays. They have four or five plays that we were able to read on the field."

Did anybody else see this? I remember that there was some concern about our coaching staff about Hasselbeck and Pierce reading and passing along our signals and plays to their team.

The truth: I think that Giants played a great game yesterday. Those turnovers killed us as usual. But I also feel that Hasselbeck and Pierce helped them prepare specifically against our plays.

TRAITORS!!!

Uaintready wrote:The left side is real weak when it comes to stopping the run. Yes we had a lot of miss tackles but Warrick Holdman is garbage, he does nothing on the feild but get in the way.

With the way the Giants controlled the clock, it was amazing that the defense was able to play the entire game. Sure, Holdman sucked, but his replacement (you know who), "the playmaker", could not make a tackle when we needed him to.

With the turnover battle going their way, the Giants just wore out our d-squad. We were blessed to not have lost more men to injury, as a result of fatigue alone.

die cowboys die wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:Wilbon:

No doubt, Antonio Pierce helped his new team with as much intel as possible on his old team during the week. The Giants felt from the first defensive series they knew what the Redskins were going to run. In fact, at times they were calling out the plays as the Redskins were about to snap the ball. Good for Pierce. The Redskins ought to be hurt in a tangible way by always adoring somebody else's players and not recognizing when they've got The Man already on their roster. What sweet revenge for him.

But this wasn't exclusively about sound spy work and Giants preparation; I counted eight dropped passes by the Redskins.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 106_2.html

wilbon probably just has his panties in a bunch because pierce is black, and we let a black player go! everything is about race to wilbon.

as far as our run defense, if we don't get this problem fixed NOW, i am ready to write this season down as another 6-10.

Once again, I've got to agree with Die Cowboy. If the defense doesn't return to form, we're toast. The offense has got the yips and needs time to get over it. Either the defense steps up or we are demoralized and dead. This kind of beating is difficult to come back from, especially after you know you've already simply handed two games you should have won over to the opposition.
I can not even imagine the guys being other than disgusted with themselves and each other. I've seen teams quit...even pro teams...when this type of crap comes down. Everybody wants to vomit or take a boat to another planet.
I'm depressed as hell myself.

The secondary is taking VERY POOR angles to stop the runs!

Sure, the Skins brokedown on every single unit yesterday from the lines onward. But the secondary played the run as poorly as they have all year long.

Yea I noticed that the secondary took some bad routes to the ball carrier but I don't fault them nearly as much as I fault the d-line and holdman for the big running plays. The d-line is getting pushed around up front and therefore aren't able to play their gaps. We simply don't have guys that are big enough or talented enough to shed blocks in the front 7 (aside from Griffin, Lavar, and Washington) As a result running backs are getting through our line virtually untouched. If that happens then you are going to see missed tackles in the seconday. Corners aren't going to be able to consistantly tackle running backs that are coming at them with a full head of steam. If we are going to be succesful we have to start playing tougher along both lines and stop letting other teams push us around in the trenches.

well...at least the eagles arent too good at running. lol


i jinxed it.