The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Ok so I've been contemplating a piercing and or a tattoo. And I have discussed it with my co workers. Mainly because one of them has a tattoo and one guy who works across the hall has multiple piercings and I was just asking how badly it hurt....etc.

Well during the course of the discussion I was told by the big boss that piercings would not be acceptable in her office. Well first of all is that legally possible? To restrict my personal expression? I am not very concerned with the first piercing I am getting. It's just my nose. And my direct boss has the same piercing.

So what are your opinions on the subject. If you walked in to your probation office (hypothetically speaking lol) and saw an assistant with a piercing what would you think? Would it be along the lines of "it's a free world" or would it be "wow that's completely inappropriate"?

I guess I have trouble being judged for anything I choose to do to my body. I think freedom of expression should not stop because of the vocational choices we make in life. I would have no trouble with a piercing/tattoo on a teacher, doctor, lawyer, .......

A company, and especially those people that work for a Government (Local, State, or Federal), have the right to impose a dress code which could preclude the wearing of certain items of dress, i.e. nose rings, tattoos, etc..), but legally, that's not preventing you from excercising your freedom of expression.

Your tattoo or nose ring is not legally considered an "expression" as much as it is an appearance. When choosing to appear a certain way, it falls under the jurisdiction of a dress code instead of being prevented from excercising your right of expression.

Usually, the Govt. will impose such a dress code if they're in a position where the employee(s) have to be in contact with members of the Public, but come closing time, the nose ring and tattoo can be on full display, legally.

You know what? I've reconsidered my position on this whole piercing thing for you, Niki. I say forget "the establishment", and express yourself however you see fit.

I say, go all out, and show how much of an "individual" you are. I suggest the following:

The employer should have the final say as far as dress code goes. As long as they aren't forcing you to work there via coercion, you're agreeing to their rules, by contract.



Although you have the final say as to whether or not you give them your services any longer. . .

Well I know the tattoo will be fine as they will never really see it. The beauty of a tattoo is it can go anywhere and it's really not that hard to place it in a place where you cannot see it during the normal business day.

I guess the whole point was whether or not it changed your perception of who someone was, if it doesn't then why is our government so uptight about it?

And no thanks Redeemed. There's a difference between being a little different and being that guy, who is WAY different. It's actually nothing I'd hold against the guy but I would ask him how he could possibly breathe like that.

I've been told as long as it's not "visibale". But in the end, it's up to the employer.
I'm gett'n a REDSKINS tattoo on my right arm and back... I already have a tatoo on my left arm... anyway, good luck.

Freedom of expression is fine and all. The same can be said for bad taste. I have not seen piercings or tatoos that I can consider classy. A person with tatoos and/or piercings immediately goes down as a person with bad taste and often self-esteem issues in my book.

These are my honest personal feelings and/or biases if you wish. Nobody with a real position of responsibility would be trusted holding a ring from their lips, ears, nose, or other not-to-be mentioned bodily parts.

I encourage my kids and family members to be as far away from both "decorations" as possible.

I would be DEAD in my job (and future expectations) with ANY of that. It would send a very wrong signal about my self-esteem and personal assurance.

Now, if you are going to venture into pro-wrestling or wish to join a motorcycle gang, for example, pick BIG ones. They work better.

Redskin in Canada:

A person with tatoos and/or piercings immediately goes down as a person with bad taste and often self-esteem issues in my book.

RIC, that's a pretty powerful and broad opinion to have. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, however, I respectfully disagree with your comment/opinion that I referance above. First of all, piercings are something that, throughout history, has long been considered customary and in most cases, classy looking particularly with females. Did you mean to say that particular types of tattoos on a particular type of person or a particular type of piercing on a particular type of person and its location is lacking class? I find it hard to believe that someone would universally consider piercings and tattoos, by themselves, irrespective of location and gender of the person who is wearing them, to be lacking class.

For instance, during World War II, though it wasn't required or demanded, a soldier getting a tattoo on his arm was almost universally hailed as some kinf of status symbol, if not a status symbol but something they could be proud of. The same could not be said for a female, though.

Society, and their perception of tattoos changed to a certain degree as time passed, but a man having an ear ring or a piercing of any kind began to evolve at some point. Classy or not, it became socially acceptable and less frowned upon as it was when it first began. In any event, a man receiving a tattoo became less of a status symbol and more of an expression.

As for a female, it was, IMO, always something that was not only accepted, but expected, that a woman would have a piercing(s) in her ear. After time, multiple piercings became acceptable, but only if they were in the ears. I myself don't consider that classless or indicative of any lack of self esteem.

I think what most people take issue with, is the actual location of the tattoo/piercing and whether or not it appears offensive. As is the case with so many different things, the perception and whether or not it is attractive varies from person to person.

But, I don't think it would be fair to say, as broadly as you suggest, that piercings and tattoos are an indication of a lack of class or self-esteem.

A lot of military personnel get what's known as a "meat tag". Basically, it is the contents of your dog tag tattooed on your torso uner your right arm.

That combined with the dog tag in your boot laces can make for a lot heavier coffin if you are blown up in action.

I would have to disagree that the broad statement that tattoos are all in bad taste and reperesent self-esteem issues.

Certainly they can be in bad taste depending on the contents and location, but taste is truly subjective, and what I find to be in bad taste may be perfectly acceptable to someone else.

I don't have a tattoo, although I am currently in the process of designing my first. I have always wanted a tattoo, not because I worry about other people's image of me, or because I have bad taste, but because I like them. The one I choose will most certainly be of some type of meaning to me, as most are to their holders.

As for piercings, I've had my ear pierced since I was 16, and at one time had multiple piercings in my left ear. Again, I did it because I liked the way it looked, not because <insert rock star's name> had it, or because I thought it would somehow win me acceptance by some particular group.

I was exactly the opposite. I even wore tuxedo shorts and chuck taylors to my senior prom. I enjoyed being different and expressing myself in my own way.

Redskin in Canada wrote:A person with tatoos and/or piercings immediately goes down as a person with bad taste and often self-esteem issues in my book.

It's really just a matter of opinion. Some people think they are beautiful. Some think they are ugly.
To imply someone has self-esteem issues if they do x,y,z, with regard to tattoos and piercings is pure folly.
That said, there are some professions where a very conservative look can benefit your career. Tattoos, piercings, style of dress, length of hair can affect your promotions. To think it doesn't happen is just as foolish.
Not sure if a parole officer is one of those professions.

Freedom of expression is fine and all. The same can be said for bad taste. I have not seen piercings or tattoos that I can consider classy. A person with tattoos and/or piercings immediately goes down as a person with bad taste and often self-esteem issues in my book.

This view reflects my personal views and/or biases.

I am very aware of the historical origins of Tattoos. I know English and French Polynesian islands very well. Tattoos have several cultural, social and military purposes there. Tattoos were brought back to the UK by some of the original explorers and sailors who saw them there for the first time during the 1600s and 1700s.

Tattoos have been used with other multiple purposes. German officers in the SS storm trooper regiments also used to have a stylised "SS" on their forearms. Victims of the holocaust also had them in the form of numbers in the same place.

Sure, many people from Hell's Angels to pop stars use them now. It all depends where you are, who you are, and, most importantly, who you want to be.

Tattoos are powerful and permanent symbols (or nearly permanent these days). They make a much stronger statement than any form of clothing and apparel. They define or, more accurately, mark people for life.

Be careful, Tattoos can evoke very strong reactions depending on many factors. I only speak for my experience. I know I would be DEAD, RUINED and DONE professionally if I had a Tattoo in a visible part of my body and/or I had a piercing in my nose or any other visible site.

I do not count regular ear piercings for ladies in the same category, JP.

JansenFan wrote:Certainly they can be in bad taste depending on the contents and location, but taste is truly subjective, and what I find to be in bad taste may be perfectly acceptable to someone else.

Undoubtedly. But the corporate, government and political worlds can be very strict in their tastes. Is it worth it? I say no. But I respect other views on this matter. I just thought it would be useful to highlight that tattoos evoke very strong reactions to this day, often not for good in some formal scenarios.

NikiH wrote:I guess the whole point was whether or not it changed your perception of who someone was, if it doesn't then why is our government so uptight about it?

Niki I think this is what you're really asking.

Let me share a great story that happen last year. I was asked to sit on a panel and grade high school dental students final (oral) projects. They do this to get some exposure for the kids to people who work in the dental field. One young lady decided to do hers on oral and facial piercings...she had about half a dozen or so piercings...and let me tell you the panel faces were priceless including mind. We in the dental field know how bad it is health wise to pierce your tounge. She went on and on about how cool it was and all the advantages etc.. Then at the end she started talking about perception and how society veiws it and she called us out. She noted the look and our faces and then pulled off all her piercings and said...does it make a difference now that I really don't have any piercing?? They were all magnets. We gave her an A and a standing O!! We talk afterwards and agree she wouldn't have recieved that grade with the piercing.

Here's my take...When doing business I want people to focus on what I'm doing not that I have a peircing or a tatoo. I'm not against them...I just think we have enough places on our bodies to place them strategically. Also who are they for? I have neither however my wife has both and people that know her don't know that because of where they are. That's because they're for me. If and when I do decide to get one, (now that I'm out of the military) it will be for her eyes only!

Tats and piercings are not in bad taste at all. Unfortunately, companies/places of work can impose any standard or dress code upon their employees. IMO, is it fair, no; however, they can do anything they want and you really don't have any say in the matter.

My company abide's by a formal dress code. I HAVE to wear a suit every day. I hate it, it sucks but I have to do it. The same goes for piercings and tats that are in view.

Personally, I don't think dress/tats/piercings do anything to diminish a place of work. Unfortunately, many people frown upon them and DEHogs story goes to show that.

Redskins1974 and fans,

Let me tell you where I come from as far as education given to me later on in my professional life:

I thought I was already a professional speaker a few years ago. I mean I was giving at least a major lecture a month at the time. But then I thought, there is nothing against improvement and get a second opinion to fine tune your presentations. So, I took the Carnegie Course on Public Presentations. They caught very quickly on several routine mistakes and bad habits that I had developed over the years. But two things in particular have stuck in my mind EVERY time I have taken the floor to speak in public after that:

1. Every single movement of my body, every single word uttered from my mouth must have a PURPOSE to convey with the utmost clarity your point.

And, most importantly,

2. NOTHING in your personal appearance, movement or language must distract the audience from your main objective. If its a distraction , it takes away from your message.

As an example, one of the instructors, who was perfectly and elegantly dressed with a dark business suit and a classic red tie, turned his back on to us and apparently did something to his tie and belt. We did not know exactly what it was and we did not know what to expect.

When he turned facing us again, it bacame clear that he had undone his belt. He had extended the tie to go -under- the belt. He had tied the belt back on tight again and the end of the tie was pointing forward -erected- due to the tension in the belt. I refuse to tell you what it suggested or looked like becase this is a PG forum. Nameless to say, the WHOLE group, men and women, broke in loud laughter.

Then he asked: Could you take me seriously about anything I say now, no matter how well my speech might be structured, supported and delivered?

The group unanimously responded, No!

So, there you have it. If something tends to DISTRACT from the main points of your professional activity, be careful about it and watch the consequences.

One of the main recommendations of that course was. PLEASE go and watch yourself in the mirror before you make a public appearance. Make sure there is no DISTRACTION in your appearance, which is a similar point to that made by DEHog above.

NikiH wrote:Ok so I've been contemplating a piercing and or a tattoo. And I have discussed it with my co workers. Mainly because one of them has a tattoo and one guy who works across the hall has multiple piercings and I was just asking how badly it hurt....etc.

Well during the course of the discussion I was told by the big boss that piercings would not be acceptable in her office. Well first of all is that legally possible? To restrict my personal expression? I am not very concerned with the first piercing I am getting. It's just my nose. And my direct boss has the same piercing.

So what are your opinions on the subject. If you walked in to your probation office (hypothetically speaking lol) and saw an assistant with a piercing what would you think? Would it be along the lines of "it's a free world" or would it be "wow that's completely inappropriate"?

I guess I have trouble being judged for anything I choose to do to my body. I think freedom of expression should not stop because of the vocational choices we make in life. I would have no trouble with a piercing/tattoo on a teacher, doctor, lawyer, .......

Niki - One of the great things about piercings is that they can be removed, permanently or temporarily; unless you do the earlobe stretching (which I highly doubt is your thing!), no one would be the wiser. Tattoos -- a little more permanent so think long and hard on that one, but easy to hide.

If you got your nose pierced -- what do you plan to wear in it? Hoop? Stud (how big)? My little sister has a tiny diamond in her nose, and you know what... you can hardly see it. I think I talked to her face to face for about 5 minutes before I even noticed it. But then again, I really try hard not to judge on appearance but to base my opinion of someone on deeper stuff, the whole package.

I doubt your workplace could fire you for a visable, non-ear piercing; you are well past the probationary period. Sure, they could direct you to a written dress code; but if same exists, that would need to be enforced across the board, not just with you. You said your direct manager has a nose piercing and others in the office have visible tattoos and piercings.

What other piercing(s) are you considering? The bridge of your nose? Your eyebrow? Lip? Throat? Personally, I think those draw more of an initial reaction from the general public, positive or negative, than a nose piercing. But I would in no way want to stifle anybody's personal "freedom of expression". Individual reaction to things like that can be very personal and emotional (as evidenced by posts in this thread) -- so I think anyone who has unconventional piercings needs to empathize with those reactions and react compassionately not aggressively.

The ultimate answer is to do what feels right to you; so long as it doesn't harm anyone. Of course, you need to consider your "life-partner's" opinions on this matter, if that is a factor; as any life relationship is more important than any body-adornment. Know that people will judge; you need to know within yourself how you will react to that judgment, regardless of whether you agree with it or not (positively and compassionately, or negatively and agressively). But then again, people often tend to judge first and ask questions later -- so this applies to a lot more than piercings and tattoos.

I totally understand the passionate reactions posted in this thread. And all are viable and I have a great deal of respect for the posters. But untimately, it's your decision, your body, your life.

I have both -- piercings and tattoos; and I have no regrets to either. But my piercings are all in my ears (usually, people/kids just want to count them or ask if the upper ones hurt). My tattoos are in locations where they are not highly visible, so I can cover them if I am in a situation whereby that would be the best decision. My tattoos are very personal and pertain to different stages of my life; I put a lot of thought into them and had them done by an incredible artist, whose work I am extremely proud to display.

The only piercing I am adamantly against is a tongue piercing, unless of course you have no intentions of keeping your teeth for the life of your body! As DE alluded to, tongue piercings are responsible for so many broken and infected teeth; and dental health issues can be a precursor to other health issues. I personally want my teeth for as long as possible.

Sorry for the lenth of this post.
taz

tazlah wrote:Niki - One of the great things about piercings is that they can be removed, permanently or temporarily; unless you do the earlobe stretching (which I highly doubt is your thing!), no one would be the wiser. Tattoos -- a little more permanent so think long and hard on that one, but easy to hide.

If you got your nose pierced -- what do you plan to wear in it? Hoop? Stud (how big)? My little sister has a tiny diamond in her nose, and you know what... you can hardly see it. I think I talked to her face to face for about 5 minutes before I even noticed it. But then again, I really try hard not to judge on appearance but to base my opinion of someone on deeper stuff, the whole package.

I doubt your workplace could fire you for a visable, non-ear piercing; you are well past the probationary period. Sure, they could direct you to a written dress code; but if same exists, that would need to be enforced across the board, not just with you. You said your direct manager has a nose piercing and others in the office have visible tattoos and piercings.

What other piercing(s) are you considering? The bridge of your nose? Your eyebrow? Lip? Throat? Personally, I think those draw more of an initial reaction from the general public, positive or negative, than a nose piercing. But I would in no way want to stifle anybody's personal "freedom of expression". Individual reaction to things like that can be very personal and emotional (as evidenced by posts in this thread) -- so I think anyone who has unconventional piercings needs to empathize with those reactions and react compassionately not aggressively.

The ultimate answer is to do what feels right to you; so long as it doesn't harm anyone. Of course, you need to consider your "life-partner's" opinions on this matter, if that is a factor; as any life relationship is more important than any body-adornment. Know that people will judge; you need to know within yourself how you will react to that judgment, regardless of whether you agree with it or not (positively and compassionately, or negatively and agressively). But then again, people often tend to judge first and ask questions later -- so this applies to a lot more than piercings and tattoos.

I totally understand the passionate reactions posted in this thread. And all are viable and I have a great deal of respect for the posters. But untimately, it's your decision, your body, your life.

I have both -- piercings and tattoos; and I have no regrets to either. But my piercings are all in my ears (usually, people/kids just want to count them or ask if the upper ones hurt). My tattoos are in locations where they are not highly visible, so I can cover them if I am in a situation whereby that would be the best decision. My tattoos are very personal and pertain to different stages of my life; I put a lot of thought into them and had them done by an incredible artist, whose work I am extremely proud to display.

The only piercing I am adamantly against is a tongue piercing, unless of course you have no intentions of keeping your teeth for the life of your body! As DE alluded to, tongue piercings are responsible for so many broken and infected teeth; and dental health issues can be a precursor to other health issues. I personally want my teeth for as long as possible.

Sorry for the lenth of this post.
taz