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Macots: offensive to the Native Americans?
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:49 am
by cmh6476
I was at the game yesterday, and met this guy while standing in line at a porta-potty. I posted it at fft, here's what I posted:
well, he wasn't really Indian. But he had on the beads and the clothes and stuff, so I asked him, "so umm, are you of native american heritage?"
I was kinda stumped at first, on how to approach the conversation :unsure:
But then he was like, "no, I'm not. But a bunch of my friends are and they are down here today protesting and I am trying to find them."
So we started talking, and I asked if they were offended by the names of the teams. He mentioned not so much the Chiefs but with the redskins. And I kinda agreed and mentioned the fact that the term redskin is actually derogative.
So then I started going on about the Chiefs and where they got their name. The Chiefs were actually named (when they moved from Dallas) for the mayor of KC (could have been former mayor), Roe Bartle. They called Mayor Bartle "Chief", because of what he had done to honor the native americans and his leadership skills. I don't know all the specifics, just have heard the story.
But to pay tribute to the mayor, who had paid tribute to the native americans during his lifetime, the city decided to call the team the Chiefs.
The Indian looking guy said the use of the word "Chief" really wasnt an issue, but the tomahawk chop and guys dressed up in headbands with gold and red paint was a disgrace to their culture.
Then we started going on about how most people don't think of any of it as offesnive, just team names and something they have grown accustomed to with the major sports. I don't think anyone means any harm, it's just a mascot of a sports franchise.
I did mention that it was kind of sad that when the Spaniards invaded Mexico, they blended with the natives on the land and still incorporate some of those same customs and heritage in today's culture. However, here in the US we just basically murdered all the natives and sent them to refuges.
What's weird is I probably had more native american in me than the guy I was talking to did. I think my great-grandfather's dad was full-blooded native american, but my great-grandfather was adopted by a different faimly. or something like that :unsure:
It still seems weird to me that native americans would be offended by the use of Mascots. I guess you can't really relate or understand it, because you are not one. But I didn't see what the big deal was :unsure:
http://www.fftodayforums.com/forum/inde ... pic=174101
Do you guys get a lot of this at home? Just wonderign what your thoughts are? Especially with the NCAA recently banning native american mascots at tourneys and whatnot. Would you guys be p!ssed if somethign happened and the Skins had to change their name?
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:59 am
by JansenFan
It will never happen. A group has been actively trying to force the team to change it's name, and even tried to remove the copyright of the name.
The judge basically told them that if it was so offensive, they shouldn't have waited 65 years to sue the team.
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:07 pm
by ATV
My thoughts? We've all discussed this on here before, but basically I agree with what that guy you talked to said. I love the Skin's logo but I can do without the name. Conversely, I don't see a problem with the Chief's name however the whole chop thing and the clown outfit should go.
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:08 pm
by die cowboys die
this whole point of view makes absolutely no sense. stop and think about it for a minute:
why would you name your team something you thought was derogatory???
there is no answer to that question, because no one would! would you name your team any of the following?:
* The Idiots
* The Jerks
* The Rapists
now, what if you were in fact a racist? would you want your team to be named after the race that you hate?? even if it's a derogatory term for them, why would you do that? so you can cheer "go [ethnic slur]s, go!" it's totally inconceivable.
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:24 pm
by USS Redskin
Die Cowboys Die -
What an awesome freakin post!
Re: Macots: offensive to the Native Americans?
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:17 pm
by Steve Spurrier III
cmh6476 wrote:I did mention that it was kind of sad that when the Spaniards invaded Mexico, they blended with the natives on the land and still incorporate some of those same customs and heritage in today's culture. However, here in the US we just basically murdered all the natives and sent them to refuges.
If by "blend", you meant "rape", and by "incorporate customs" you meant "Hernando Cortez wiping out the entire Aztec Empire", then yes, it is sad we (the English colonists, I assume) didn't do things like the Spanish...
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:35 pm
by Braden
The protest group was out in front of the stadium, near the entrance at Gate A. They had their signs, and were chanting something about Indian names. Whatever... Stop paying attention to the names of professional and collegiate athletic teams, and direct your efforts and energy to something that ***really*** matters, like disaster relief, world hunger, peace, or something like that. What a complete waste of time...
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:05 pm
by DCGloryYears828791
I used this in my definition essay for school, it was on the word redskin, i thought it would shed some light on the name.
In the case of the Washington Redskins, the team was originally known as the Boston Braves, but changed to the Boston Redskins when they left Braves field for Fenway Park. The name “Redskins” was chosen to honor the teams coach, William Lone Star Weitz, whose mother was Sioux.” (Redskin, par.3) This very much disputes the stance that the team name is a derogatory one. Words take power from their usage. The usage here which is clear to me is that this team was named in a positive light to reflect somebody that the original owner, George Preston Marshall viewed as a good man who happened to be a Native American.
Re: Macots: offensive to the Native Americans?
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:32 pm
by SkinsBigtime
Steve Spurrier III wrote:cmh6476 wrote:I did mention that it was kind of sad that when the Spaniards invaded Mexico, they blended with the natives on the land and still incorporate some of those same customs and heritage in today's culture. However, here in the US we just basically murdered all the natives and sent them to refuges.
If by "blend", you meant "rape", and by "incorporate customs" you meant "Hernando Cortez wiping out the entire Aztec Empire", then yes, it is sad we (the English colonists, I assume) didn't do things like the Spanish...
I was just thinking the same thing. Or take Christopher Colombus who (is Spanish), upon arriving on his first trip west, took around 1000 captured natives home to Spain with him. 500 of them died en route, so they were tossed overboard as the ship sailed home. The rest arrived and were paraded down the streets of Seville naked, and then sold to the highest bidder to work the rest of their lives. Too bad the English weren't as respectful.
Re: Macots: offensive to the Native Americans?
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:28 pm
by cvillehog
SkinsBigtime wrote:Steve Spurrier III wrote:cmh6476 wrote:I did mention that it was kind of sad that when the Spaniards invaded Mexico, they blended with the natives on the land and still incorporate some of those same customs and heritage in today's culture. However, here in the US we just basically murdered all the natives and sent them to refuges.
If by "blend", you meant "rape", and by "incorporate customs" you meant "Hernando Cortez wiping out the entire Aztec Empire", then yes, it is sad we (the English colonists, I assume) didn't do things like the Spanish...
I was just thinking the same thing. Or take Christopher Colombus who (is Spanish), upon arriving on his first trip west, took around 1000 captured natives home to Spain with him. 500 of them died en route, so they were tossed overboard as the ship sailed home. The rest arrived and were paraded down the streets of Seville naked, and then sold to the highest bidder to work the rest of their lives. Too bad the English weren't as respectful.
Columbus was Italian.
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:35 pm
by njskinsfan
I'm a native american...................I was born in Jersey. Last time I looked at a map that was in America. Being of Irish decent do I protest the Fighting Irish? Hell no those chookers should have beat USC.
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:15 pm
by redskins-28
I have always thought it was so asinine for an ethnic group, or any group to protest the name of a sports team. I see it as an honor to have a team named after something or someone. Look how many fans there are and they come to root for their team, they are proud to be fans as we are proud to be Redskins fans. To think of it as derogatory or negative tells me one of two things about a person or group that protests..... either they are complete morons or they simply have entirely too much time on their hands.
Re: Macots: offensive to the Native Americans?
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:13 pm
by SkinsBigtime
cvillehog wrote:SkinsBigtime wrote:Steve Spurrier III wrote:cmh6476 wrote:I did mention that it was kind of sad that when the Spaniards invaded Mexico, they blended with the natives on the land and still incorporate some of those same customs and heritage in today's culture. However, here in the US we just basically murdered all the natives and sent them to refuges.
If by "blend", you meant "rape", and by "incorporate customs" you meant "Hernando Cortez wiping out the entire Aztec Empire", then yes, it is sad we (the English colonists, I assume) didn't do things like the Spanish...
I was just thinking the same thing. Or take Christopher Colombus who (is Spanish), upon arriving on his first trip west, took around 1000 captured natives home to Spain with him. 500 of them died en route, so they were tossed overboard as the ship sailed home. The rest arrived and were paraded down the streets of Seville naked, and then sold to the highest bidder to work the rest of their lives. Too bad the English weren't as respectful.
Columbus was Italian.
I'm sorry, you're right. Columbus sailed in the name of Spain.