The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I believe many would agree that John Elway was one of the all-time best QB's ever to play. I put him in the top 5 to 10 all-time. Well, let's compare some numbers....they might surprise you:

Career Stats..........Elway..............Brunell

Games Played..........234................134

ATT-COMP..............7250-4123..........3964-2362

PCT COMP..............56.9...............59.6

YARDS.................51,475.............27574

AVE PER ATT...........7.10...............6.96

YARDS PER GAME........219.9..............205.7

TD'S..................300................155

INT's.................226................94

RUSHING ATT...........774................465

YARDS.................3407...............2337

AVE RUSH..............4.4................5.0

CAREER QB RATING......79.9...............83.9

The numbers don't lie. Brunell compares very favorably to Elway in the important (statistical) measures, with a higher QB rating; completion PCT, TD's to INT's ratio, and more yards rushing per attempt and per game.

It seems as though no one takes into account the fact that last year, Brunell was injured, and the rest of the cast also performed poorly, including a coaching staff that couldn't get plays in on time, or manage the clock very well. And how many absurd false start and holding penalties were we guilty of? The entire offense seemed to be in complete disarray. A new system, and a coaching staff that hadn't coached for quite a while contributed to how BAD Brunell looked last season.....and he did look BAD.

This year, Brunell's current QB rating and performance is absolutely in-line with what he's done consistently throughout his 13 year career. The stuff we're seeing now from Brunell is no fluke, nor luck. Gibbs has always recognized this, even with all of the fans and "experts" questioning his judgement (and sometimes his sanity).

It's time we all recognize some things. For one, Brunell has caught so much criticism, and so many boos, it's amazing that he's had the guts and confidence to come back, and to give us fans his humble good nature along with a 3-0 start and a miracle Monday night football come from behind win over the Cowboys.

And it's a tribute to Gibbs that he never hesitated, and never wrote off Brunell.

We need to keep in mind some things also. It's easier to get a defense playing together, than it is an offense, especially when you have a great coach like Williams running it. Let's remember who brought Williams and Brunell in! Gibbs did.

I think we were all excited to no end when we first heard the news about Gibbs comming back. And so many expected (unreasonably) that he could transport us back in time to 1983....instantaneously. Of course that's impossible.

What Gibbs did do, and is doing, is exactly what we were so excited about to begin with. He's giving the Redskins a chance to beat anybody, on any given day, even when all of the pieces haven't been completely sorted out yet. And he's doing it in his second year, just like he did the first time around, back in the glory days.

Pray that all remain healthy, and we'll see this offense continue to improve week to week. Brunel actually gives us some things we haven't had in a long long time. He's very accurate. He doesn't turn the ball over much. His career TD's to games played aint bad either....and, he can run better than most guys ten years younger!!

And who was it that said he can't throw the deep ball? I doubt you'll hear that from Santana Moss....or Joe Gibbs.

Go Gibbs! Go Brunell! Go Redskins!

You left off the key stat:

Super Bowl Appearances: Elway- 4 or 5, Brunell 0 (so far)

No one ever said Brunell wasn't good in Jax. But, as Skeletor said, it's the Super Bowl appearances (and wins) that really set them apart. If Brunell continues to have the year he is having, he should be comeback player of the year. If he takes us to, and deep into the playoffs, I do think he will be remembered for it.

I think Brunell's doing well right now, but even using stats, it's kind of a stretch comparing him to Elway. He was one of the best to play the game -- and recorded far more wins than Brunell including two Superbowl rings.

That being said, the stats are comparable. Let's not forget that Elway peaked towards the end of his career. Can only hope for the same with MB.

I'm not placing Brunell in the same league with Elway. I'm just pointing out that the stats do. The intangibles and circumstances can't be compared. Much like Marino's lack of Super Bowls doesn't make him less of a QB. Or
Sony Jurgensen as another example, didn't have 5 Super Bowls either, but was no less a great QB, and hall of famer.

The bottom line is that it takes only 1 person to be a great QB, and 53 to win championships.

RayNAustin wrote:The numbers don't lie.

Yes they do.

I'm sorry, but if anyone would take Mark Brunell over John Elway, then they should start watching the other football.

Skeletor wrote:You left off the key stat:

Super Bowl Appearances: Elway- 4 or 5, Brunell 0 (so far)

I guess Terrell Davis, Rod Smith, and their offensive scheme had nothing to do with it!

Don't forget Roid-manowski!

RayNAustin wrote:I believe many would agree that John Elway was one of the all-time best QB's ever to play. I put him in the top 5 to 10 all-time. Well, let's compare some numbers....they might surprise you:

Career Stats..........Elway..............Brunell

Games Played..........234................134

ATT-COMP..............7250-4123..........3964-2362

PCT COMP..............56.9...............59.6

YARDS.................51,475.............27574

AVE PER ATT...........7.10...............6.96

YARDS PER GAME........219.9..............205.7

TD'S..................300................155

INT's.................226................94

RUSHING ATT...........774................465

YARDS.................3407...............2337

AVE RUSH..............4.4................5.0

CAREER QB RATING......79.9...............83.9

The numbers don't lie. Brunell compares very favorably to Elway in the important (statistical) measures, with a higher QB rating; completion PCT, TD's to INT's ratio, and more yards rushing per attempt and per game.

It seems as though no one takes into account the fact that last year, Brunell was injured, and the rest of the cast also performed poorly, including a coaching staff that couldn't get plays in on time, or manage the clock very well. And how many absurd false start and holding penalties were we guilty of? The entire offense seemed to be in complete disarray. A new system, and a coaching staff that hadn't coached for quite a while contributed to how BAD Brunell looked last season.....and he did look BAD.

This year, Brunell's current QB rating and performance is absolutely in-line with what he's done consistently throughout his 13 year career. The stuff we're seeing now from Brunell is no fluke, nor luck. Gibbs has always recognized this, even with all of the fans and "experts" questioning his judgement (and sometimes his sanity).

It's time we all recognize some things. For one, Brunell has caught so much criticism, and so many boos, it's amazing that he's had the guts and confidence to come back, and to give us fans his humble good nature along with a 3-0 start and a miracle Monday night football come from behind win over the Cowboys.

And it's a tribute to Gibbs that he never hesitated, and never wrote off Brunell.

We need to keep in mind some things also. It's easier to get a defense playing together, than it is an offense, especially when you have a great coach like Williams running it. Let's remember who brought Williams and Brunell in! Gibbs did.

I think we were all excited to no end when we first heard the news about Gibbs comming back. And so many expected (unreasonably) that he could transport us back in time to 1983....instantaneously. Of course that's impossible.

What Gibbs did do, and is doing, is exactly what we were so excited about to begin with. He's giving the Redskins a chance to beat anybody, on any given day, even when all of the pieces haven't been completely sorted out yet. And he's doing it in his second year, just like he did the first time around, back in the glory days.

Pray that all remain healthy, and we'll see this offense continue to improve week to week. Brunel actually gives us some things we haven't had in a long long time. He's very accurate. He doesn't turn the ball over much. His career TD's to games played aint bad either....and, he can run better than most guys ten years younger!!

And who was it that said he can't throw the deep ball? I doubt you'll hear that from Santana Moss....or Joe Gibbs.

Go Gibbs! Go Brunell! Go Redskins!

I can't even believe this thread. You have got to be kidding me.

Are you guys absolutely nuts? Comparing Brunell to Elway? I almost fell off my chair laughing!

That's it. You're gonna lose big on Sunday now. That's almost sacreligous!

P.S. Re: he can run better than most guys ten year younger!!

Have you happended to notice those two braces he has on his knees? I think you've been living in squaller for the past several years.

I saw John Elway Mr. Brunell, and you sir are no John Elway.

Then we wonder why people come over here and laugh sometimes. The two forementioned quarterbacks are not even in the same stratoshpere. AFC Championship loser or Super Bowl Champion with alot more yards,years,games played,touchdowns?

I love what Brunell is doing but if we only had a John Elway my how different things would be.................

Good Post though. Strong positive look at #8.

I don't even know what to say about this post?I would like to ask what are you thinking?Elway v.s. Brunell are you trying to make us look bad or what?

Brunell will have a ring after this year!

Think of it as a prediction thread.

Elway.... who is ELway.
What team what did he do last week?

Info people info

Look, nobody is saying Brunell is as good or better than Elway. That was not the point. Let me spell it out for those victims of public schooling who seem to be reading and math challenged like BroncoJoe and skinpride1:

The stats say that Brunell is a very good QB...in response to those who keep saying he's just another average nobody, when compared to someone like Elway whom no one would argue was great. OK That's the point. People can always argue over subjective opinion, but it's much harder to argue hard numbers and facts.

Since Elway played a full 16 seasons compared to Brunell's 8-9 full seasons, Elway's numbers are huge in comparison, but the statistical averages say that Brunell's numbers were very good throughout his career, and compare favorably to the numbers Elway put up. Those are facts, not opinion.

The fact that Brunell spent most of his career with Jacksonville (a team not often referred to as a dynasty) while Elway was with Denver might account for some of the success Elway enjoyed, but that is a subjective matter that can't be proven one way or the other.

But think about this for a minute: what if Brunell had been with a team like the Redskins between 1982-1992, when we won three Super Bowls with three different QB's, non of which are in the all time great category ?

Was Doug Williams a better QB than Elway? Hell no, but, his record setting 4 TD's in the second quarter against Elway and Denver, and 602 total yards racked up are still Super Bowl records. So Super Bowls don't tell the whole story, otherwise Marino would have run out of fingers to put his rings.

For me, I'll take Favre as my all time favorite, second to Elway, but there could be good arguments to take Marino, Montana, Young, Unitas, Star, Staubach also.

And let's not forget ole Sony Jurgesen who might be the best pure passer ever to play. Unfortunately for Sony, the Redskins didn't have much of a team to back him up.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Brunell will have a ring after this year!

Think of it as a prediction thread.

Chris, are you trying to become today's "Captain Obvious" or something??? You're a page late on your "bold" prediction.

See?

Before CLL "predicted" Brunell would win the SB, he must have read what REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:I say Brunell begins to catch up in the Super Bowl stats THIS year!!!!!!


...which means he'd have a higher winning percentage in the SB (1-for-1, or 1.000)

Quit jockin' my style, yo!!

RayNAustin wrote:Look, nobody is saying Brunell is as good or better than Elway. That was not the point. Let me spell it out for those victims of public schooling who seem to be reading and math challenged like BroncoJoe and skinpride1:

The stats say that Brunell is a very good QB...in response to those who keep saying he's just another average nobody, when compared to someone like Elway whom no one would argue was great. OK That's the point. People can always argue over subjective opinion, but it's much harder to argue hard numbers and facts.

Since Elway played a full 16 seasons compared to Brunell's 8-9 full seasons, Elway's numbers are huge in comparison, but the statistical averages say that Brunell's numbers were very good throughout his career, and compare favorably to the numbers Elway put up. Those are facts, not opinion.

The fact that Brunell spent most of his career with Jacksonville (a team not often referred to as a dynasty) while Elway was with Denver might account for some of the success Elway enjoyed, but that is a subjective matter that can't be proven one way or the other.

But think about this for a minute: what if Brunell had been with a team like the Redskins between 1982-1992, when we won three Super Bowls with three different QB's, non of which are in the all time great category ?

Was Doug Williams a better QB than Elway? Hell no, but, his record setting 4 TD's in the second quarter against Elway and Denver, and 602 total yards racked up are still Super Bowl records. So Super Bowls don't tell the whole story, otherwise Marino would have run out of fingers to put his rings.

For me, I'll take Favre as my all time favorite, second to Elway, but there could be good arguments to take Marino, Montana, Young, Unitas, Star, Staubach also.

And let's not forget ole Sony Jurgesen who might be the best pure passer ever to play. Unfortunately for Sony, the Redskins didn't have much of a team to back him up.

Your response only serves to confirm how ridiculous you are. First of all, Doug Williams and Elway were not on the field at the same time - study your film, young man.

Second, Brunell in JAX compares favorably to Elway in Denver. Denver wasn't that great as a team either. He was a one man show, who for the most part, single-handedly got the Broncos to 4 Superbowls. Sorry, has Brunell even seen the field during a Superbowl?

Finally, I resent your comment regarding public education in this country. You must be one of those spoiled, "gimmie gimmie" knuckleheads whose parents ruined beyond repair. Having experience with both private and public schooling, there's no comparison when considering the cost and reward. Hopefully you are stuck behind a desk somewhere, deep in a basement contributing nothing to society with your narrow, selfish and arrogant views.

P.S. I am not saying that Brunell is a crap QB. He is very good, but to compare him to Elway is asinine. What if Elway was coached by someone like Shannahan his whole career? What if Elway was part of the 49er organization?

You know the saying, "If it's and but's...."

Oh wait, you may not know something from the real world because you were "privately educated".

Welcome to the site BroncoJoe.

Your response only serves to confirm how ridiculous you are

We can do without the the attack on the poster. Say what you want about the post.

Rule #6

1niksder wrote:Welcome to the site BroncoJoe.

Your response only serves to confirm how ridiculous you are

We can do without the the attack on the poster. Say what you want about the post.

Rule #6

You're joking, right? Ban me if you want, but his post began with an insult of publicly educated people. Or did you miss that? I didn't realize the word "ridiculous" was a no-no. Give me a break. His comments and this post were ridiculous and asinine.

P.S. He named me in particular. Seems like an attack on the poster to me.

BroncoJoe,
Did someone say they were going to ban you?

The key statistic not on the list is 4th quarter comebacks. That is what set Elway apart.