The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

If you don't learn from your mistakes your bound to repeat them. With Brunell at Qb I have lost hope. It was the running game not Brunell. Brunell didn't even complete a pass on the first drive. I will say we aren't going to beat Dallas. I just can't see it, after the way Dallas looked on Sunday and Brunell at Qb. Well, maybe in two or three years when Campell devolops we will be good. We beat the Bears by two, the Bears.

Dallas cant stop anyone on defense, and the bears defense is good.

whats with the man crush on Ramsey..geez this is football.

Thank God you're alive Manfreda, I was beginning to wonder where you were. This is vintage Manfreda fodder. I thought maybe you had lost your touch, but thankfully we now know that your whining, angry, hopeless, doom and gloom, jump ship type of attitude is alive and well.

Brunell didn't even complete a pass on the first drive.

Wasn't everyones' excuse for Ramsey not playing well in the first Giants game that he came in off the bench? He did not get all the reps in practice? He wasn't ready for the game?

How come Brunell does not get the benefit of the doubt?

SkinsFanInHawai'i wrote:

Brunell didn't even complete a pass on the first drive.

Wasn't everyones' excuse for Ramsey not playing well in the first Giants game that he came in off the bench? He did not get all the reps in practice? He wasn't ready for the game?

How come Brunell does not get the benefit of the doubt?

Because for some reason these guys have a "man-crush" on Ramsey. Maybe they think he's cute. Other than that, as a fan we should all want to win, and you can't win fumbling and throwing INTS.

Is the Big Mac still warm? Nevermind, I'll take it cold.

Hate to agree with Mandfreda, but I do in this situation. I have no faith at all in Brunell. Sure, he looks to have some zip in his arm again, unlike last season, but through 3 quarters he had 70 yards passing. It wasn't because he wasn't completing passes, it's because he was only completing short passes. Just like last year....

I think Brunell could probably connect on longer passes now that his arm seems to be back, but his instinct is to throw short. He likely won't overcome that.

I totally still have faith in Gibbs and most of the players on this team. Brunell will have to change my mind though, because I now see us going 8-8 if we are lucky and that will be totally because of the defense.

God I hope Mark changes my mind...

sch1977 wrote:Dallas cant stop anyone on defense, and the bears defense is good.

I'd love to know where this myth that the Bears have a "good" defense started. Is that what one has to convince themselves of to make up for scoring 9 points.

The Bears were 21st (that's the bottom 1/3) in the NFL in defense last year and basically returned without any positional upgrades.

The Hogster wrote:

SkinsFanInHawai'i wrote:

Brunell didn't even complete a pass on the first drive.

Wasn't everyones' excuse for Ramsey not playing well in the first Giants game that he came in off the bench? He did not get all the reps in practice? He wasn't ready for the game?

How come Brunell does not get the benefit of the doubt?

Because for some reason these guys have a "man-crush" on Ramsey. Maybe they think he's cute. Other than that, as a fan we should all want to win, and you can't win fumbling and throwing INTS.

That's ridiculus Hogster. First of all, the fumble was NOT his fault and if you saw it, you KNOW that. Nobody would have held onto the ball on that hit. Yes Ramsey made a bonehead Int, but the bears didn't score from it and it didn't affect the game. After that int, he started playing pretty good and was about to score when he got throttled. Ramsey gives us the hope that it will click and he'll start playing up to his potential. That's why we like Ramsey. Ramsey has the "potential" to be elite. There is no hope of that with Brunell because he is who he is. He can't all of the sudden learn how to throw. He already knows how and the way he plays is how he's always played. His arm seems to be back, but he still isn't throwing over 10 yards. I hope that can change, because if it doesn't, we are in for another long season when we should be fighting for the division...

If you listened to the announcers of the game they said the Bears D was strong. They had nothing but great things to say about it. I have it on tape if you'd like to borrow it curveball dear!

curveball wrote:

sch1977 wrote:Dallas cant stop anyone on defense, and the bears defense is good.

I'd love to know where this myth that the Bears have a "good" defense started. Is that what one has to convince themselves of to make up for scoring 9 points.

The Bears were 21st (that's the bottom 1/3) in the NFL in defense last year and basically returned without any positional upgrades.

The Bears have a solid front seven. Last year they had injury problems and had a terrible offense the left the Defense on the field way too long....same reason why we were not the #1 defense. Chicago played tough defense yesterday. Our O-line wore them out and we were able to run the ball, especially in the 2nd half.

NikiH wrote:If you listened to the announcers of the game they said the Bears D was strong. They had nothing but great things to say about it. I have it on tape if you'd like to borrow it curveball dear!

Announcers saying something doesn't mean that it's Gospel. I've got tapes of announcers claiming that Quincy Carter is the next great Dallas QB. We all know how that turned out.


Remember, this is the same exact defense Julius Jones shredded last year (except Azumah is now the nickel back and last year's nickel back, Vasher, is now the starter) when many here were claiming that he was running it up against "poor" defenses.

Chicago is what it is. A mediocre overhyped defense led by mediocre overhyped LB and probably the league's worst QB situation on offense.

Look, I'll take nothing away from you, because you did what you had to, beat a terrible team. That's what playoff contenders do. That's how Dallas made the playoffs in '03/'04. Win every game you should, but don't misrepresent the quality of the opponent.

Scottskins wrote:That's ridiculus Hogster. First of all, the fumble was NOT his fault and if you saw it, you KNOW that. Nobody would have held onto the ball on that hit. Yes Ramsey made a bonehead Int, but the bears didn't score from it and it didn't affect the game. After that int, he started playing pretty good and was about to score when he got throttled. Ramsey gives us the hope that it will click and he'll start playing up to his potential. That's why we like Ramsey. Ramsey has the "potential" to be elite. There is no hope of that with Brunell because he is who he is. He can't all of the sudden learn how to throw. He already knows how and the way he plays is how he's always played. His arm seems to be back, but he still isn't throwing over 10 yards. I hope that can change, because if it doesn't, we are in for another long season when we should be fighting for the division...

Just for the record, I completely disagree. On occaision, I see Brunell potentially completing a 12 to 15 yard pass.

skinsfanno9 wrote:

Scottskins wrote:That's ridiculus Hogster. First of all, the fumble was NOT his fault and if you saw it, you KNOW that. Nobody would have held onto the ball on that hit. Yes Ramsey made a bonehead Int, but the bears didn't score from it and it didn't affect the game. After that int, he started playing pretty good and was about to score when he got throttled. Ramsey gives us the hope that it will click and he'll start playing up to his potential. That's why we like Ramsey. Ramsey has the "potential" to be elite. There is no hope of that with Brunell because he is who he is. He can't all of the sudden learn how to throw. He already knows how and the way he plays is how he's always played. His arm seems to be back, but he still isn't throwing over 10 yards. I hope that can change, because if it doesn't, we are in for another long season when we should be fighting for the division...

Just for the record, I completely disagree. On occaision, I see Brunell potentially completing a 12 to 15 yard pass.

nah, I think it's more like a 7 yard pass with an 8 yard RaC

Brunell can get it don hes not going to WIN us any games on his own though.

JPFair wrote:Thank God you're alive Manfreda, I was beginning to wonder where you were. This is vintage Manfreda fodder. I thought maybe you had lost your touch, but thankfully we now know that your whining, angry, hopeless, doom and gloom, jump ship type of attitude is alive and well.

I have every right to whine unlike u, I know what I am talking about. The only reason we could run the ball is because Ramsey made them respect the passing game. With numerous completions on 3rd down. We have sucked for so long evceryone has a right to bad mouth the Redskins. What has Gibbs done in today's game nothing. He won in a time were it was unheard of that a LB ran 4.5 forty, maybe except LT. Well he sucked against LT. Brunell proved last year that he does not deserve to start.

There is only so much a Qb can take, he comes and gets the crapped kicked out of him by Spurrier's stupid offense, and than when he leaves, Gibbs signs a Qb to start, and than when he earns the job, than again he drafts a qb so he knows his days are numbered. Turnovers are not Ramsey's fault there Gibbs, everyone asked Rich Gannon why he didn't do well, in the begining and he said I finally had a coach that believed in me. You can whatever you want but a coach has to go and let a player just play. If me makes a mistake it happens. All Gibbs talks about is not turning the ball over you know what I would rather have two or three turnovers and move the ball through out the game, than a bunch of three and outs with no turnovers.

Manfreda,

Out of curiosity, who was the QB when Portis got most of his 121 yards yesterday?

Man what a sloppy mess this "seems" to be! I dont know what to say honestly, except we need to win and keep winning BY ANY AND ALL MEANS NECCESSARY!! There have been good points made by everyone, but the fact remains....regardless who starts we need to score TOUCHDOWNS!!

At this point Im so tired of the team not being successful, that I am down for what ever keeps the W's registering on a constant basis!

But regardless of the outcome, I am a -Redskin Till I die-

John Manfreda wrote:

JPFair wrote:Thank God you're alive Manfreda, I was beginning to wonder where you were. This is vintage Manfreda fodder. I thought maybe you had lost your touch, but thankfully we now know that your whining, angry, hopeless, doom and gloom, jump ship type of attitude is alive and well.

I have every right to whine unlike u, I know what I am talking about. The only reason we could run the ball is because Ramsey made them respect the passing game. With numerous completions on 3rd down. We have sucked for so long evceryone has a right to bad mouth the Redskins. What has Gibbs done in today's game nothing. He won in a time were it was unheard of that a LB ran 4.5 forty, maybe except LT. Well he sucked against LT. Brunell proved last year that he does not deserve to start.

Stop looking at these numbers...
Ramsey 6/11 105 yards in a quarter
Brunell 8/14 70 yards in three quarters

Take a look at THESE the numbers, I’m not talking about the Int. and the Fumble he lost. Look at the offense instead of the QB.
The Skins had 11 offensive drives Ramsey had 3 and Brunell had 8 (2 at the end of the halves so we’ll say 6 drives)
Ramsey ran 25 plays to Brunell’s 40 not quite 3 to 1 is it
Brunell produced point 50% of his drives Ramsey gave up the ball 66% of the time
Brunell moved the team (230 total yards) on the ground and through short / intermediate passes (we picked up 160 on 26 runs or a 6.1 ypc.)
Patrick was forced to move the team (117 yards) through the air (13 runs for 12 yards total excluding sacks)
Speaking of sacks Patrick was sacked twice in 25 snaps that’s roughly 10% of the time, Brunell took a knee 3 times (that’s as close to get sack as he got) 0 sacks
The offense had three penalties while Ramsey was under center, can’t remember any on the offense (not 1) once Mark took over.

Scottskins wrote:

The Hogster wrote:

SkinsFanInHawai'i wrote:

Brunell didn't even complete a pass on the first drive.

Wasn't everyones' excuse for Ramsey not playing well in the first Giants game that he came in off the bench? He did not get all the reps in practice? He wasn't ready for the game?

How come Brunell does not get the benefit of the doubt?

Because for some reason these guys have a "man-crush" on Ramsey. Maybe they think he's cute. Other than that, as a fan we should all want to win, and you can't win fumbling and throwing INTS.

Whats ridiculous is how many excuses you make for Ramsey.

Hey, anyone would have fumbled on that play.
Hey, sure he threw a bad int, but they didn't score??? WTF??
Hey, Ramsey has potential to be elite?

Yeah, anyone may have fumbled on that one play, but how about the other fumble. Only hopping around in the pocket for 6 seconds patting the ball lead to that one. Luckily Jansen recovered. As for the interception, just because the Defense bailed Ram out on that possession does not excuse the Stupidity and Inaccuracy of the throw. Why do you expect the defense to do their job and Ramsey's every week?

Potential only means that you haven'd done a darn thing YET.

Bottom line is Ramsey played less than 4 quarters in pre-season and one quarter in regular season. In that short time, he has 5 INTS and 3 fumbles. Thats 8 turnovers in a little over one game. Remind you of....say the Giants game last year? That tells you that in this offense, he has not taken the steps neccessary to manage this team. Gibbs sees it, and any reasonable person does as well.

Quit making excuses for Ramsey. Just because I don't think that Ramsey is a good quarterback right now does not mean that I am in love with Brunnell. I also will not doom the season just yet.

You should not invest evreything in one player, including Pat Ramsey.

Ahhh, they both suck, I wish we could just time warp ahead a couple of years to when Jason Campbell takes over. But we can't so we're stuck with what we've got.I was so pissed when Ramsey threw that pick, but I think he did start getting it together afterwards and began to hope that this might be his year. Alas, it looks like we may never know. I am so unexcited about Brunell, but I don't see it as a negative or positive that he's going to be in there. I think it will be more boring as we go to a more conservative Offense. I betcha Patten and Moss are bumming BIG TIME.

The Hogster wrote:Maybe they think he's cute.

Well, he does have that boyish face and all. He looks like Spanky all grown up...


...and he bears a weird resemblance to Drew Barrymore IMO.



Anyone else see that??

1niksder wrote:

John Manfreda wrote:

JPFair wrote:Thank God you're alive Manfreda, I was beginning to wonder where you were. This is vintage Manfreda fodder. I thought maybe you had lost your touch, but thankfully we now know that your whining, angry, hopeless, doom and gloom, jump ship type of attitude is alive and well.

I have every right to whine unlike u, I know what I am talking about. The only reason we could run the ball is because Ramsey made them respect the passing game. With numerous completions on 3rd down. We have sucked for so long evceryone has a right to bad mouth the Redskins. What has Gibbs done in today's game nothing. He won in a time were it was unheard of that a LB ran 4.5 forty, maybe except LT. Well he sucked against LT. Brunell proved last year that he does not deserve to start.

Stop looking at these numbers...
Ramsey 6/11 105 yards in a quarter
Brunell 8/14 70 yards in three quarters

Take a look at THESE the numbers, I’m not talking about the Int. and the Fumble he lost. Look at the offense instead of the QB.
The Skins had 11 offensive drives Ramsey had 3 and Brunell had 8 (2 at the end of the halves so we’ll say 6 drives)
Ramsey ran 25 plays to Brunell’s 40 not quite 3 to 1 is it
Brunell produced point 50% of his drives Ramsey gave up the ball 66% of the time
Brunell moved the team (230 total yards) on the ground and through short / intermediate passes (we picked up 160 on 26 runs or a 6.1 ypc.)
Patrick was forced to move the team (117 yards) through the air (13 runs for 12 yards total excluding sacks)
Speaking of sacks Patrick was sacked twice in 25 snaps that’s roughly 10% of the time, Brunell took a knee 3 times (that’s as close to get sack as he got) 0 sacks
The offense had three penalties while Ramsey was under center, can’t remember any on the offense (not 1) once Mark took over.

Great post! Under Brunell the offense just seemed to run smoother. Yes he only had 70 yards but since we were running the ball well did he really need to air it out. And unlike Ramsey Brunell was able to get out of trouble without doing something stupid. With Brunell not having the hamstring problem that hampered him last year I think he will perform much better (just as he demonstrated in the preseason).