The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

***Please note that I will be posting Brunell related stuff here all season long. Just skip to the last page to get the latest update. You've probably already read this 1000 times by now. *** -TRO

The clothesline heard 'round the beltway cauht the fans at the "Tailgate for #8" by surprise. There we were, polishing off the last of the gameday brauts and brews when word came through that Brunell would play.

Not since the announcement at the All-Valley Tournament that "Daniel Larusso was gonna fight" had a more surprising event taken place.

Alas, the wily veteran got in the game, and, in the end, delivered a victory.

What's a Brunell fan to say about "Numero Ocho's" outing??

Here ya go...

1) Yes, we heard the boos when Brunell started to warm-up on the sidelines. Apparently, some "fans" preffered to have a woozy Ramsey play in the game, than to see Brunell get under center. For all intents and purposes... Ramsey might have played better "under the influence". I'm a little upset about not being able to find out.

2) Brunell struggled early, and it seemed that Brunell would carry the moniker of "Pre-Season wonder" for the reaminder of the game/season, had the team lost. However, it was clear that Brunell was not part of the gameplan, and just like Ramsey was thrown into the Giants game last year, Brunell was forced to come off the bench and produce. He was cold early, but once the old bones warmed up, he started to "MANAGE" the team well.

3) The conservative play calling once Brunell came in was the right thing to do. If Brunell was not part of the original gameplan, give the ball to Portis. True, we only scored 3 field goals, and we have to fix our red zone woes, but as long as Portis/Betts keep churning out the yards, killing the clock, and wearing down the opposing team's defense, we have the tools on the other side of the ball to preserve the lead.

4) No self-respecting #8 tailgater wanted to see Ramsey go down in a heap following a cheap shot, and while we were ecstatic to donn our #8 jerseys following a Brunell win, Ramsey should not lose his job due to injury. HOWEVER, if Joe feels that Ramsey isn't 100% emotionally/mentally/spiritually, whatever, he should not start. If Joe thinks Mark gives us the best chance at Dallas, we should go with Mark, until Patrick is completely ready to return.

5) Here's to patrick getting all healed up.
The tailgate is confident in Patrick's increased development as the season progresses, so long as he gets his fair shake of snaps. With that being said, we boldly guarantee that, as soon as week three there will be a Ramsey INT-free week in the NFL in 2005.

Hail Skins!!!



Note to fans: Thanks to the Freedom Grill's easy cleanup, we "#8 'gaiters" were able to pack up our gear in a cinch and head to the stands to watch the sweet action. Man, this is a great grill.

I'm guilty of jocking Ramsey in the past but I'm pretty convinced that he does not have to ability to limit his mistakes at this point. Once again that first INT was horrible.

Brunell is not Manning but I see hop in his step and he actually throws the ball away when nothing it there.

woohit56 wrote:I'm guilty of jocking Ramsey in the past but I'm pretty convinced that he does not have to ability to limit his mistakes at this point. Once again that first INT was horrible.

I wish I could comment more on Ramsey's performance, and the INT, but I didn't get to see his performance (I was listening to the radio feed on the way back from church). But, before the hit, it seemed like he was getting something going.

However, Jansen's mistake of not picking up Briggs would not have been so glaring had:

a) Ramsey not been following his receiver the entire time.

b) Ramsey had some ability to scramble.

Brunell was a lot more aware of the blitz when he was in, and either got rid of the ball or made some throws to keep the ball moving.

Another nugget: Brunell's "INT" would have been a beautiful long completion had the WR not been interfered with, and his stats would have been better.

you're kidding. you're blaming ramsey for not seeing the blitz on that play? the way i saw it, it was bang-bang. briggs was through the line before ramsey had set his feet. the guy should expect to set himself before he has to scramble.

after the int, ramsey made several key third down throws that i'm confident that brunell could not have made. some, perhaps but not all. the only reason brunell looked good is that the running game started working.

as for your nugget (!), even without the interference, i still don't think moss would have come down with that ball. not to mention that he lofted the ball up for grabs into double coverage. maybe he forgot which moss he was throwing to. if ramsey threw that ball, we'd all be saying 'what a dumb decision ramsey made there'. so, for ramsey's sake, i'll say it; what a dumb decision brunell made there.

lastly, do you think that the fans or meathead are calling for brad johnson after culpepper's three int, two fumble performance? i doubt it. not that i'm comparing ramsey to culpepper, i'm comparing starting quaterbacks. if or when ramsey proves he can't do it, i'm on the brunell train. i just don't see that he's proven that to me yet.

joebagadonuts wrote:you're kidding. you're blaming ramsey for not seeing the blitz on that play?

he saw it through the radio feed on the way back to church...

joebagadonuts wrote:after the int, ramsey made several key third down throws that i'm confident that brunell could not have made. some, perhaps but not all. the only reason brunell looked good is that the running game started working.

true the running game helped...

joebagadonuts wrote:as for your nugget (!), even without the interference, i still don't think moss would have come down with that ball. not to mention that he lofted the ball up for grabs into double coverage. maybe he forgot which moss he was throwing to. if ramsey threw that ball, we'd all be saying 'what a dumb decision ramsey made there'. so, for ramsey's sake, i'll say it; what a dumb decision brunell made there.

I disagree... even on the replay, Moss was out running the CB and right in front of the safety... until the CB started holding onto his jersey...

joebagadonuts wrote:lastly, do you think that the fans or meathead are calling for brad johnson after culpepper's three int, two fumble performance? i doubt it. not that i'm comparing ramsey to culpepper, i'm comparing starting quaterbacks. if or when ramsey proves he can't do it, i'm on the brunell train. i just don't see that he's proven that to me yet.

personally, neither have overwhelmingly proved they deserve the starting spot over the other one... if we're basing it on yesterdays game... Ramsey's drives were INT, FUMBLE RECOVERED PUNT, LOST FUMBLE... Brunell atleast didn't make stupid mistakes, and we drove down the field 3 times with him in there... I'm not siding... I'll be happy with whatever Joe Gibbs decides...

joebagadonuts wrote: if or when ramsey proves he can't do it, i'm on the brunell train. i just don't see that he's proven that to me yet.

This is an interesting perspective and in the end you may be correct. At this point I disagree because it is starting to look like Ramsey has a knack for grouping a certain amount of terrible decisions with his good performances. He will just be blitzed to death and he is pretty shook inside the closing pocket. However, he did step up with good pocket presence on one play I can remember but the majority of the time I wince in that situation.

BringThePain! wrote:personally, neither have overwhelmingly proved they deserve the starting spot over the other one... if we're basing it on yesterdays game... Ramsey's drives were INT, FUMBLE RECOVERED PUNT, LOST FUMBLE... Brunell atleast didn't make stupid mistakes, and we drove down the field 3 times with him in there... I'm not siding... I'll be happy with whatever Joe Gibbs decides...

Now there is something I can agree with. Best post I've read on this subject so far.

BringThePain! wrote:he saw it through the radio feed on the way back to church...

and yet he was still able to determine that ramsey was following the reciever the whole time.

BringThePain! wrote:I disagree... even on the replay, Moss was out running the CB and right in front of the safety... until the CB started holding onto his jersey...

i'll have to go back and watch it again, but from what i remember, it seemed to me that the ball was lofted and underthrown, and that moss and the two dbacks had to slow down to catch it. moreover, it seemed to be thrown inside of moss's position, and i don't think that the dback held moss's jersey enough to prevent him from catching it. it was certainly pass interference, but not enough, in my mind, to prevent the smaller moss from making the play in double coverage. as i said, i'll have to go back and watch it again before i can give an officially stamped joebag opinion.

BringThePain! wrote:personally, neither have overwhelmingly proved they deserve the starting spot over the other one... if we're basing it on yesterdays game... Ramsey's drives were INT, FUMBLE RECOVERED PUNT, LOST FUMBLE... Brunell atleast didn't make stupid mistakes, and we drove down the field 3 times with him in there... I'm not siding... I'll be happy with whatever Joe Gibbs decides...

i agree that ramsey wasn't overwhelming. but i guess i still expect the guy to make some mistakes. i don't think of him as a fifth year qb, because of all the crap he's been through. i expect him to still be learning. that's why i was somewhat encouraged by his performance yesterday. he got better as the game went on, and he was much better than his preseason performances.

and i disagree that brunell didn't make any major mistakes. the called-back int was a mistake, penalty or not, to throw into double coverage. another mistake was his poor throw to cooley at the one. a good throw is a touchdown, we're up 6 (or maybe 7 if they go for and get the 2 point conversion) instead of 2. the defense saved his behind by creating a turnover on the final drive. without that, we lose 10-9, and my kids learn some new curse words.

i think the bottom line for all of us is wins. we all want to win. i just happen to think that ramsey gives us the best chance to win (or at least go down fighting), until he proves to me otherwise. 12 points a game (or whatever we averaged last year) won't do it this year.

joebagadonuts wrote:

BringThePain! wrote:he saw it through the radio feed on the way back to church...

and yet he was still able to determine that ramsey was following the reciever the whole time.

it's amazing isn't it...

joebagadonuts wrote:i think the bottom line for all of us is wins. we all want to win. i just happen to think that ramsey gives us the best chance to win (or at least go down fighting), until he proves to me otherwise. 12 points a game (or whatever we averaged last year) won't do it this year.

I think we're going to find out this week, with whoever is the starter, if he's capable or not... because in Dallas, on Monday Night... is no joke, and not gonna get it done with 9 points... whoever's out there is going to have to step up from his showing in this last game...

BringThePain! wrote:... because in Dallas, on Monday Night... is no joke...

let's hope it doesn't turn into one. at least not with us being the punch line.

joebagadonuts wrote:

BringThePain! wrote:he saw it through the radio feed on the way back to church...

and yet he was still able to determine that ramsey was following the reciever the whole time.

My bad. I wasn't clear. I did not see THE INT. I did see the clothesline. I did see Jansen screw-up. I did see Ramsey unanaware of the blitz.

No, it was not Ramsey's fault he got whacked. His line was unprepared, and he suffered because of it. Of course, he kinda just sat there and took it in the chin/throat.

Perhaps some mobility could have helped.

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:[

Another nugget: Brunell's "INT" would have been a beautiful long completion had the WR not been interfered with, and his stats would have been better.[/color]

That pass was badly underthrown in fact I didn't even think it was PI...maybe a make up call (for the Ramsey hit), but the guy covering Moss wasn't even the guy who picked it off, I believe it was the safety??

forget mobility. i think he needs to work on temporarily separating his head from his neck, so briggs' arm would WHOOOSH right between them, swiping at nothing but air. ramsey's head would then land back on his neck, and he'd hook up with moss for a td.

DEHog wrote:

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:[

Another nugget: Brunell's "INT" would have been a beautiful long completion had the WR not been interfered with, and his stats would have been better.[/color]

That pass was badly underthrown in fact I didn't even think it was PI...

The TV replay showed it was PI. Moss' jersey was pulled far enough back to show his frickin' shoulder pads.

the guy covering Moss wasn't even the guy who picked it off, I believe it was the safety??

Yeah, the corner was on the ground after Moss had to drag him to free himself from the grab on his jersey. It was the safety and NOT the infractor.

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:

DEHog wrote:

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:[

Another nugget: Brunell's "INT" would have been a beautiful long completion had the WR not been interfered with, and his stats would have been better.[/color]

That pass was badly underthrown in fact I didn't even think it was PI...

The TV replay showed it was PI. Moss' jersey was pulled far enough back to show his frickin' shoulder pads.

the guy covering Moss wasn't even the guy who picked it off, I believe it was the safety??

Yeah, the corner was on the ground after Moss had to drag him to free himself from the grab on his jersey. It was the safety and NOT the infractor.

The one thing about that "INT" by Brunnel - he had David Patton WIDE OPEN down the middle of the field. There was no one around. As soon as he let it rip, I thought it was underthrown. I'll have to watch the game on TV to get the whole picture...

I think that neither of them played well and I was a little disappointed that Brunnell remained in because anyone that saw Gibbs in the press conference after got the impression, like I did, that it wasn't about injury it was a choice. To me that means Gibbs isn't sticking by his word and that's not cool.

joebagadonuts wrote:forget mobility. i think he needs to work on temporarily separating his head from his neck, so briggs' arm would WHOOOSH right between them, swiping at nothing but air. ramsey's head would then land back on his neck, and he'd hook up with moss for a td.

Something to work on in practice this wekk, eh?

NikiH wrote:I think that neither of them played well and I was a little disappointed that Brunnell remained in because anyone that saw Gibbs in the press conference after got the impression, like I did, that it wasn't about injury it was a choice. To me that means Gibbs isn't sticking by his word and that's not cool.

In fairness to Joe, he was concerned about Ramsey's keeping his head in the game (no pun intended). We've al lwitnessed Ramsey's happy feet in the pocket, and his poor decision-making, when his neck is 100%. If he had gone into the game again and thrown two-picks on account of being pressured by a defense that was, obviously, not holding back, we might have been looking at an "L" instead of a "W". Joe preserved the victory, and gave Ramsey a chance to heal up before putting him back in...possibly next week?

While, yes, Joe "chose" to keep Brunell in, he had to have Patrick's well-being in mind...not to mention the team's performance.

If Number 8 starts I have this weird feeling its going to be another long season for us. He played good that game. I mean, for being the back up. He knew the bears didn't have nothing offensly so he just had to play not to lose and we had a win. Thats fine. But against Dallas you have to score. I don't know if Brunnel has got it. We saw only one deep ball from Brunnell and that was a horrible throw. If that ball was thrown right it just might have been a touchdown.

Don't get me all wrong about Brunnell. I'm just to dang nervous when he's in there. I think he's a decent quarterback and I'm glad we have him as a back up. But, I just don't think this guy can lead us to three touchdowns a game. Until he proves it. I will doubt it.

You didn't see the press conference did you?? lol Seriously, watch the press conference.

And I will give your man one thing, he was very gracious and very well spoken after the game. That impressed me. So we shall see, I'll back Joe's decision, I just feel that Ramsey kind of had his chance snatched away from him which was not fair.

Redskins1974 wrote:

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:

DEHog wrote:

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:[

Another nugget: Brunell's "INT" would have been a beautiful long completion had the WR not been interfered with, and his stats would have been better.[/color]

That pass was badly underthrown in fact I didn't even think it was PI...

The TV replay showed it was PI. Moss' jersey was pulled far enough back to show his frickin' shoulder pads.

the guy covering Moss wasn't even the guy who picked it off, I believe it was the safety??

Yeah, the corner was on the ground after Moss had to drag him to free himself from the grab on his jersey. It was the safety and NOT the infractor.

The one thing about that "INT" by Brunnel - he had David Patton WIDE OPEN down the middle of the field. There was no one around. As soon as he let it rip, I thought it was underthrown. I'll have to watch the game on TV to get the whole picture...

Yea that right I remember JansenFan saying that to me on that play, we both thought he was going to throw to Patten

I don't know if anyone is upset at Gibbs for keeping Ramsey out after a neck injury like that. Perhaps he seemed "good to go" but what if he was hit again?

Brunell was just barely adequate in 3 quarters of play to beat the low-powered Bears offense. I don't think that will be good enough to get it done on Monday, though. Do you think the Bears defense is just so much better than the Cowboys defense that Brunell can just go light them up?

while both the closeness of the final score and the turnover are not brunell's fault, it proves what he can and cannot do. he is able to not lose games. he can't win them. he needs a very good running game, much better than ramsey needs, in order to be successful.

personally, i'd rather take my shots and go down swinging, than fall asleep watching the skins go three and out every time, kick a field goal here and there, and lose by a few.

joebagadonuts wrote:personally, i'd rather take my shots and go down swinging, than fall asleep watching the skins go three and out every time, kick a field goal here and there, and lose by a few.

I understand what you are saying, but, please don't tell me that you'd exchange a shot at the playoffs (maybe a SuperBowl) because you like "the long ball". If we plow through our competition averaging 12 points a game, make the playoffs, and win the XL...

I'll be a happy Skins fan on the day of our Super Bowl Parade.