The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I am a Bears fan who has lived some 20 years in Virginia and therefore gets to see a lot of the Redskins on TV.

To be honest, I have no idea who will win Sunday's game. The Redskins may well prevail. However, I think it far less certain than most of the fans on this board do.

As I recall, the Skins and the Bears played last season, and the Skins won 13-10 (correct me if I am wrong). The confidence on the board now is due to the fact that the Bears intend to start Kyle Orton, a rookie quarterback.

As a Bears fan, I would be the first to admit that the Bears lack a solid quarterback and that starting a rookie is going to be ugly. BUT, that said, last year against the Redskins we started Quinn. If y'all will look up Quinn's stats last year, you will see that it is reasonable to think that Orton, whatever his flaws, is an upgrade on Quinn. Yet the Bears defense and special teams still kept the game close.

The Bears, like the Redskins, have an excellent defensive unit. When you played the Bears last year, many of the Bears best defensive players were injured and either not playing or playing with injuries that hampered their effectiveness. This year, the Bears appear to be even stronger on defense. The ill omen for the Redskins is that you will be facing a Bears defense that is practically 100% healthy. The Bears first string was especially good during the preseason in stopping the run, which I know from watching Redskins preseason games is your strength.

How this will all play out on Sunday, I do not know, and I am not bold enough to predict the Bears will win. Especially on this board! However, the Bears defense is going to be an unpleasant surprise for you. If Orton throws a bunch of picks and has the ball stripped from him a couple more times -- not unlikely -- you will obviously prevail. But if it is Ramsey who is rattled (and from what I saw in preseason it would appear he CAN be rattled) then the Bears could easily win.

Don't be looking ahead to the Cowboys just yet.

I agree we shouldn't be looking ahead but here are a few things to take into consideration from our perspective too.

First of all, last year we had two injured Pro Bowlers (Arrington and Jansen) who we will now have back too.

Last year our starting QB against you guys was an injured Mark Brunell who was absolutely terrible but we still won. He went 8 for 22 for 95 yds, 1 TD and 1 int. No matter how badly he plays, Ramsey will almost assuredly put in a better performance than Brunell did last year.

I have no doubt that Orton could probably be a better player than Quinn could dream of but the fact is that Jonathan Quinn was a seven year veteran. Orton has never played in a game and never faced a real NFL defense. I don't give him anymore chance than Quinn had. I mean, the 'Skins held Eli Manning to under 50yds passing until the last play of the game that he started against us last year and that was midway through the year after Eli had worked with the team for a while and had seen a couple of real NFL defenses in real games who also liked to blitz a lot. I will be shocked if Orton passes for more than 100yds and I'm being 100% serious.

That is not to say I think the Bears are a joke though. Last year they were one of the top scoring defenses in the league and, with this in mind, Ramsey cannot afford to make any bad ints.

I still think we have to be the odds-on favorites to win this game though. I definately don't think the Bears can "easily win" but it is certainly possible that the 'SKins can give the game away.

I, along with many Redskins fans, am not looking past the Bears. We've got to take it one game at a time. Your defense is very solid, I pray we can win this game, sarting off with a loss will damage the psyche of our fragile team. Good luck Sunday, may the best team win

Thank you for your input and for contributing to the site. I think most of us will agree with you in that the Bears should be very good again on defence, as should the Redskins. I think the difference is that we should be more effective against Kyle, at home, than the Bears will be against our offensive line who are all looking very good this year.

Last year does not count! Should be a good opener for both teams and I do not think the loss will be as bad for the Bears as it would be for our team. I think you will be surprised at how much better we are this year in all facets of the game.

I certainly do not think the players are looking ahead but I will agree from all we have seen the past few weeks that a number of the people here might be.

I'm really loooking forward to seeing the team on the field in a game that counts this week.

welcome and keep in touch - we like views and opinions from other teams, especially good teams like da Bears!

All that you say, I grant. If I had to bet money on this game, I would probably bet on the Redskins. But Quinn was... dreadful. In the Redskins game (I looked it up) he was 10 of 22 for 65 yards and 1 interception. His quarterback rating on the entire season was 53.7. I recognize that those folks on the Chicago Bears message boards who are preparing a bust for Orton in Canton are getting WAAAAYYY ahead of themselves. But Orton did have a promising preseason, and a QB rating of 60-65 would actually be an IMPROVEMENT for us.

We've also gotten defensive people back, and like the Redskins we've attempted to upgrade other areas. The Bears last year were dead last in practically every offensive category imaginable, so naturally they did a lot of rearranging in the offseason, drafting mostly on offense and switching offensive coordinators. Whether it will help remains to be seen, but as dreadful as we were last year, it is hard to see how the rebuilt offense could be WORSE. Last year, you may recall Craig Krenzel won his first three starts. Krenzel was a rookie 5th round draft choice, and less prepared to start than Orton by almost any criteria. It wasn't that Krenzel was good (his Quarterback rating was 52.5!). The defense won each of those games. The defense was that good.

I think both teams should expect an ugly low-scoring affair.

VARon wrote:However, the Bears defense is going to be an unpleasant surprise for you.

I'm not sure how it's going to be a surprise when we've faced 3 of the toughest Defenses in the league this preseason... (Baltimore,Pittburgh,Carolina)... And even though the Bears defense is pretty good.. it certainly doesn't compare to those three.... Our offense will probably sputter in the first half, as they normally do... but the end result, you've got a rookie QB, playing his first game ever in hostile territory in the biggest arena in the NFL.... they'll be lucky to score 7...

that's not being cocky, I know we're not the best offense in the NFL right now either... but we're not as bad as the bears... no offense.. pun intended..

Ugly, low-scoring affairs were the weekly habbit last year, VARon. You can bet that we Redskins fans are prepared to handle yet another one, as long as the Skins come out on top.

I like your points, but I still think that you are glossing over how hard it might be on Orton. Greg Williams is going to come at the boy with some fire, and there's a good argument to be made that our defense has actually improved somewhat from last year.

As for our offense, all I can say is that the consistent report from preseason (I didn't get to watch it, unfortunately) were gaping holes created by our offensive line. It's hard to overestimate the return of Jansen to our line.

We've got our problems at quarterback as well, but we do know that Ramsey can perform well when the offense gets clicking.

And, like everyone else on this site, I am definitely NOT looking past this game at all.

Actually, the Bears defense worries me a little. If Ramsey plays like....well....Ramsey, he'll throw 1-2 INTs and maybe even one for a TD return. Hopefully, that won't happen...but I wouldn't be surprised.

This game is not a "walk in the park" by any means. The nice thing is that no matter what, being the first game of the season, there will be no way the players look past this team!

One other thing re: the Bears defense.

Last year the Bears got a new head coach, Lovie Smith. Smith favors an entirely different defensive scheme than his predecessor, emphasizing speed and turnovers over size and strength. Therefore, all the Bears defensive veterans last year were learning a radically different system. Also, many of the veterans last year were drafted because they fit the OLD system. Smith began gathering people who fit his system, drafting and starting many rookies on defense.

This year, the defense knows the system, the rookies have a year of experience, and the personell now more closely fit the system. All the key people (except Grossman, in our dubious offense) got through preseason healthy. We can expect some improvement just from being in the second year of a new defensive system.

I can't wait for the game. Our OLine ran all over Pitts starters and I can't wait to see what they can do in a real game against a good defense. Should be a great game. Bad defense for Orton to start with unfortunately...

VARon wrote:One other thing re: the Bears defense.

Last year the Bears got a new head coach, Lovie Smith. Smith favors an entirely different defensive scheme than his predecessor, emphasizing speed and turnovers over size and strength. Therefore, all the Bears defensive veterans last year were learning a radically different system. Also, many of the veterans last year were drafted because they fit the OLD system. Smith began gathering people who fit his system, drafting and starting many rookies on defense.

This year, the defense knows the system, the rookies have a year of experience, and the personell now more closely fit the system. All the key people (except Grossman, in our dubious offense) got through preseason healthy. We can expect some improvement just from being in the second year of a new defensive system.

Guess what, so did we. And instead of struggling in the new system, we straight up dominated.

So sure, you guys could be better with another year under your belt, but so will we.

And so will the offense. Just like your defense last year, all the players we molded for an offense I dare not speak of, but with a new running system and more players picked out by Joe Gibbs and crew, the Washington Redskins offense is prepared for an extreme turnaround.

air_hog wrote:Guess what, so did we. And instead of struggling in the new system, we straight up dominated.

...owned

I've always been a big Joe Gibbs fan, and I am now old enough that the prospect of an "old timer" like Gibbs coming back and dominating in the present era is very appealing to me. So I am not even going to be disappointed if the Redskins win.

Still, Bears fans are not unreasonably excited about this year's defense. You say Carolina, etc. are better. Perhaps. But remember that last year our offense was the absolute worst in the league. Three and out, followed by a successful punt ... that was one of our GOOD series. The bad ones were interceptions or our QB being stripped of the ball, which seemed to happen 3-4 times a game. Given how little help the defense got from the offense, how many minutes it was on the field each game ... I think appropriately adjusting for such factors would show our defense last year was more than simply good. Had our defense played with the Colt's offense... but now I am babbling.

I saw more Redskins preseason games than I did Bears preseason games, and I saw the huge holes your offensive line created and the galloping running backs. I can understand your enthusiasm. The Bears defensive first stringers, though, effectively shut down every first string running game they faced during the preseason.

The Bears are not going to give you much. However, I also believe you will practically shut down the Bear's offense. Any decent defense can, and yours is more than decent. Picks, special teams, fumbles are likely to decide this thing, IMHO. You may get a dozen points from your offense, which will be plenty unless the Bears defense matches them.

First off, welcome to the Board. Secondly, I as a Redskins fan in recent years look past no opponent. I don't remember any game last year that I knew we could win, and looked to the next week, and those on this board that do that, as much as I would like to, have to come back to reality. Trust me, I am a HUGE Redskins fan stuck up here in Philly, but I do have season tickets, and will be down for every home game. I love the Skins, but between other fans and the media, the only way we are going to get respected is to go out there and win. When Peyton Manning came into the league as one of the most highly regarded college QB's, the media was all over him, and the fans were right behind them, especially when he started playing poorly as a rookie. Now look, he is one of the most respected QB's in the league, and it is not because his name, or family history, or even the team he is on, it is because he won games (yet to win the big one though), and proved to everyone that he was good, he earned his respect, and that is what the Redskins have to do.

As a fan, I hate reading all these articles that say we are in the "middle of the pack," or the "lower half," or seeing articles that state our defense is ranked 15th. But one thing is clear, until we win some games and improve from year to year, and prove them wrong, then we can't sit here and say that they are wrong, b/c their predictions for us last year (which I personally thought they were wrong, as I thought we would be much improved) were right. We were a 6-10 team, as many of them said. Winning this first game would be a start, and then going into Puke-Town and beating the pants off of the Cowgirls on MNF would send a statement that the Skins are better. If we start out 2-0, some people will change their tune towards the Redskins. If we start out any other way, the critics will remain as strong as ever.

Back to this game, and comparing the two teams from last year. As it is stated, the Bears D is healthy and better than last year, and their offense has improved as well. Still, they are starting a rookie QB, and although Quinn's stats were pathetic in the game last year, so were Brunell's, more so, since he was a vetrean. As it has been seen so far, the Skins O-Line is much improved with Rabach and Jansen there now, and with Dockery playing with something to prove, as well as Samuels, as he wants to get back to the Pro Bowl. As a result of this, one of the best RB of this millenium should improve on his 1,300 yards from last year, which was accrued against 8 man fronts, as there was no one to spread the field. I feel that Ramsey's slow start has been a result of getting used to the timing in a real game situation, last year he was throwing to some guy with a bad toe, and some other guy who dropped half the passes thrown at him. This year now, he is throwing deep to one of the fastest guys in the league in Moss, and Patten is not too slow himself. This shall open the holes for Portis and 1,600+ yards. Our D has improved as well I think, for a large part b/c the system remains the same, something they are not used to. Plus, Arrington in back & healthy, and doesn't have to learn a new system for the first time. Taylor is a year older, and a year smarter (at least on the field), and Rogers will soon make us all forget about Smoot and missing tackles, or playing 10 yards off his guy on a 3rd & short. I feel like I could go on and on, but that is enough for now. Oh yeah, ey is a stud, enough said. Go Skins, I will be cheering from Section 448 (I think) Row 16, somewhere up there.

Just FYI, our best receiver last year was David Terrell. The Bears released him, the Patriots signed him, and just last week the Patriots cut him again. Unless somebody else picks him up (and the Patriots only took a look because Terrell was Brady's target in college) he is out of the NFL. As a replacement, the bears hired the Carolina receiver who lead the NFL last year. The Bears were so decimated on the offensive line last year that I can't begin to remember all the people who played. We set some kind of record for number of sacks allowed -- 66 is my best recollection. The Bears hired a couple free agent offensive linemen and got one severely injured first round draft choice healthy again during the offseason. Sunday they will all be healthy. (I don't want to think about NEXT Sunday.) Our previous offensive coordinator, Shea, had a horribly complicated system whose blocking schemes confused the heck out of the rotating cast of second and third stringers filling in on the offensive line. Turner (the new OC) has, at least, simplified the blocking schemes to the point where the first string ought to have some clue who they are supposed to block. Perhaps Orton will have a second or two to look for a receiver ... on first down, at least.

I am not saying that I am looking past anyone. I will admit though that last season, I would have been utterly shocked if we lost to the Bears.

I was pretty much sure, just like I am now, that we would beat them. But, I am man enough to admit also that I thought the same way about the Cleveland Browns game, and I was disgusted with our play in that game.

Heck, come to think of it, I felt that way about both Giants games, the Cincinnatti game, the 49ers game, and also the Minny game.

But that is the point of being a fan. I am not going to beat up on the Bears fan because he is doing just what we do, he is seeing positives in a team that has played poorly, and for that I am respectful of his opinions.

But...Skins still win.

funny, when i look up defensive stats for 2004, the bears are ranked 21st. they gave up 336.9 yards per game, compared to washington's 267.6 (which ranked them #3).

comparing average Time of Posession between the teams, the bears were on defense an average of 2 minutes and 59 seconds longer than the redskins each game. the redskins gave up an average of 9.328 Yards Per Minute when on defense (2nd best in the league-- buffalo was 1st with 8.913 YPM). so even if you pretend the skins D was on the field 3 minutes longer, that would be about 28 extra yards.

267.6 + 28 = 295.6 ...still a lot less than the bears' 336.9 with the same amount of time on defense. any mention of chicago's injuries is irrelevant, since the skins D had at least as many injuries as the bears.

clinton portis ran for 171 yards despite no possible threat of a passing game. the converse is that the skins D held thomas jones to 97 yards. injuries are also irrelevant here, since the skins o-line was also injured. i will grant that cedric benson should be an improvement at RB. however, that will likely be offset by the return of lavar arrington, matt bowen, etc etc.

kyle orton has looked amazing in preseason, and looks like he will turn into a good NFL QB. i hope he does, the bears don't deserve to have their young "franchise QB of the future" (grossman) go down to injury 3 years in a row, that's just wrong (the only team that deserves that is dallas). the bears deserve a good QB. but, it will be nothing short of a miracle if he survives this game without getting eaten alive.

on the skins side at QB, someone else said it: no matter how bad ramsey plays, it will be at least 3 times better than the performance brunell gave vs. chicago last year. even if orton plays 3 times better than quinn (which should be pretty easy), it still just evens out, and we still win.

When you have not been to the playoffs in 5 years you cannot take ANY opponent lightly.

I still find it hard to picture a team with a rookie QB going on the road Week 1 and beating a team with a Top 5 defense. The Redskins are superior to the Bears on both sides of the ball, and on the sidelines, and they have home field advantage. The Burgundy and Gold will prevail but don't expect a blowout.....no such thing as a blowout with our offense.

VARon wrote:One other thing re: the Bears defense.

Last year the Bears got a new head coach, Lovie Smith. Smith favors an entirely different defensive scheme than his predecessor, emphasizing speed and turnovers over size and strength. Therefore, all the Bears defensive veterans last year were learning a radically different system. Also, many of the veterans last year were drafted because they fit the OLD system. Smith began gathering people who fit his system, drafting and starting many rookies on defense.

This year, the defense knows the system, the rookies have a year of experience, and the personell now more closely fit the system. All the key people (except Grossman, in our dubious offense) got through preseason healthy. We can expect some improvement just from being in the second year of a new defensive system.

Our defense has had 4 new coordinators in 5 years. But from what I saw of our offensive line in the preseason, your defense, lacking size and strength, is going to get pushed around by size, strength, and most of all execution! Look for Portis to have a big day.

I understand why you'd look at the defensive stats and conclude what you did. However, the extrapolation you are performing assumes that points sacrificed are proportional to playing time in the game. But insofar as defensive players become exhausted, this probably isn't so.

But that really isn't the main point. I don't doubt the Redskins were banged up on defense last year, but the bears were decimated. Urlacher missed half the season with a series of hamstring injuries and was not always 100% when he was playing. (The Bears actually won more games than they lost when Urlacher was playing last year, and remember that 8-8 got the Vikings to the playoffs!) Tilman, our best cornerback, was lost for the season very early on. At the beginning of last season, the Bears traded for a DE who had been one of the 2003 sack leaders. But early in the season, he suffered an injury that slowed him considerably, and although he played the entire season, he only had about 4 sacks. He is healthy this year. Mike Brown, one of our starting safeties, suffered a season-ending injury in game 2 after running back an interception 95 yards earlier in the game to beat Green Bay. This is just what I can remember off the top of my head. There were other less celebrated injuries. For a while, it seemed the Bears were suffering a hamstring injury a day. (During the offseason, they went out and hired a strength and flexibility coach. Now everybody is stretching and the hamstring injuries have disappeared. Knock on wood.)

We never got our players all on the field at the same time. But what we have seen of them individually when healthy is causing Bears fans to salivate. Sunday, they will ALL be there, healthy. They looked awesome in preseason. If Clinton Portis does have a field day against this group, then I will have to call a bookie and put some money on you to beat Dallas.

In short, the total yardage figures were what they were because the Bears played portions of last year with what was essentially their second string defense. That, and time of possession. BTW, total yards was pretty much the defense's worst stat. Smith's philosophy (not defending it now, just stating it) is that you play defense for turnovers, sacks, etc. so that you use smaller, faster guys to get into the opposing backfield. Whether it is the RIGHT philosophy, I do not know, but I do know it gives better results in points scored by your opponents than yardage surrendered. My recollectin is that this was true when Smith was Defensive coordinator of the Rams, too.

I don't want to sound like a Bears fanboy. I know they have stunk up the joint in recent years. Also, I know the Redskins DID have a wonderful defense last year, and I would expect no less from them this year. You've absolutely convinced me that Orton is going to have a rough Sunday.

You will probably win Sunday. But if you lose, it will be because the Bears got into your backfield once too often and forced Ramsey into a mistake. This is what Smith is preaching and *sometimes* it works. The Bears do have the defense in place to be in your backfield several times Sunday, and if you have a weakness it is that Ramsey sometimes seems to come unglued.

Sorry Ron, but it keeps sounding like you're talking yourself into feeling better about the Bears chances.... which is all good & nice to do, because we all like to believe we have a chance in the beginning of the season.... but really, they're not the 1985 Bears, they're not the 2000 Ravens... Kyle Orton isn't Ben Rothlisberger... hell, Ben Rothlisberger isn't Ben Rothlisberger...

We've faced defenses tougher then yours this preseason and we can see that although our offense isn't going to be a power house.... they can hold they're own against the best... the Bears D isn't the best...

And your offense is shakey at best... Kyle Orton, who may be a great player one day... hasn't even seen a top notch Defense yet, Jones is nothing to worry about... Muhammad will probably give us a run for our money, but that's pretty much it... and I don't think he'll scare us....

Unless your defense scores like 3 TD's... i don't think you guys have a prayer... sorry

Kyle Orton isn't Ben Rothlisberger... hell, Ben Rothlisberger isn't Ben Rothlisberger...

Your very best point of many

I agree with BTP! The Bears might be (are) a better team than last year but I just think our O line will do better against the Bears' D than The Bears' offensive cordinator will do against Greg & company. I think that this is a good start for both teams but while the Bears could win it is a lot more likely the Skins win this game.



I also think that this team wants this game very badly and it is the begining of another *era* for this team. There are some pent-up frustrations that need to be "taken care of" and "da Bears" are the first step.

all the best for the rest of the season!

I dont even think that Muhammed is going to give us problems. I think Springs shuts him down, and I dont even worry about Justin gage.

Let's see: solid and probably underrated though not top flight defense hampered by a string of so-so quarterbacks and a generally inept offense ... hmmm, this sounds familiar ... oh, that's right: the Norv Turner era.
Good luck Raiders