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New Orelans'S "tell it like it is" Mayor, Ray Nagin, should run for President. Did anyone catch his interview on the Radio the other night? What a powerful, honest, thought provoking, from the heart, and passionate individual this guy is. When I think of Politicians, I think of scandals, corruption, bribery, and a general lack of real compassion.

Ray Nagin is everything that a Politician should be, and sadly, something that very few are. His passion, honesty, and genuine concern for the well being of the people of his city are what makes great people great. If this Country had a Mayor like Nagin for every City, we'd be in a hell of a lot better condition than we're in now.

I don't know what his Political aspirations are, but if he ever runs for Office where I can vote, he's got my vote.

RAY NAGIN FOR PRESIDENT!!

i'll keep an ear out for it, sounds like a quality guy from your description though

The current chaos in NO can be layed at his feet. I can't believe that anyone could possibly support someone so ill-prepared for the task at hand.


If you want to find someone who's handled this emergency in an efficient, professional manner, look at Haley Barbour. Mississippi bore the brunt of Katrina, yet the streets of NO don't compare to Biloxi or anywhere else in Mississippi.

Some people talk a good game. Some get things done.

The difference is NO is UNDER WATER - changes the ball game just a tad. (no disrepect to MS or Al)

NC43Hog wrote:The difference is NO is UNDER WATER - changes the ball game just a tad. (no disrepect to MS or Al)

Yes, there is a difference in destructive forces, but Miss was seemingly well prepared to handle any extenuating circumstances. Nagin was MIA for a long time when the city needed him most. Barbour was getting things done.

Naggin requested Federal assistance for New Orelaans before the hurricane hit. He was rebuked because the Governor wouldn't ask for it. Nagin wanted things done beforehand, but he was stopped every time he tried.

I don't know JP...I agree the Governor could have done much more. You can count the number of Cat 5 canes that have hit the US on one hand. Why LA didn't have "boots on ground" over the weekend before the strom hit is a mystery to me. Would have been much easier to get them out then?? One thing for sure the finger pointing has to stop.

I agree that the finger pointing has to stop. This thread was not about pointing fingers, it was about my opinion on Ray Nagin, who I thought has done an exemplary job. But, someone insinuated that he was MIA for a few days, when in fact he requested Federal assistance through the proper protocols, only to be rebuked by the Governor of LA. Ray Nagin asked for Federal assistance before the hurricane even hit, and to suggest that he was MIA and didn't do enough was wrong. I agree with DE, the finger pointing has to stop and work has to get done. But, my whole point of this thread was that Nagin is a man of integrity and honesty, the way politicians should be.

Give me a couple more years before I have to consider another candidate, will you ?
If those are the qualifications, you might see Guiliani running on a similar platform.

JPFair wrote:I agree that the finger pointing has to stop. This thread was not about pointing fingers, it was about my opinion on Ray Nagin, who I thought has done an exemplary job. But, someone insinuated that he was MIA for a few days, when in fact he requested Federal assistance through the proper protocols, only to be rebuked by the Governor of LA. Ray Nagin asked for Federal assistance before the hurricane even hit, and to suggest that he was MIA and didn't do enough was wrong. I agree with DE, the finger pointing has to stop and work has to get done. But, my whole point of this thread was that Nagin is a man of integrity and honesty, the way politicians should be.

What exactly did Nagin do pre-Katrina to improve people's chances? What has he actually done post-Katrina?

I'm not talking about talking, I'm talking about getting things done.

What exactly did Nagin do pre-Katrina to improve people's chances? What has he actually done post-Katrina?

I'll tell you exactly what he did/didn't do. First, as I'm a manager myself within the Federal Govt., I can speak with a certain degree of authority on the necessary protocols to obtain assistance from the Federal Govt.

That being said, the day before Hurricane Katrina made landfall, the Mayor of New Orleans, Ray Nagin, contacted the Governor of Louisiana and requested Federal assistance in both specific areas as well as general Federal assistance. Specifically, Ray Nagin asked the Governor of Louisiana to install Martial Law in New Orelans BEFORE the hurricane made landfall, which would require the presence of National Guard troops to prevent any looting which was sure to come after he had ordered a 100% evacuation of the city. In addition, Nagin requested, again through the Governor, that Federal assistance in the form of Active Duty military be deployed to assist those that required rescuing from the pending storm.

What's important to note, is that Nagins request to the Governor was made in the days before Katrina made landfall. The Governor of Louisiana claimed that Federal assistance was not needed, and effectively said that if it's needed at all, it won't be determined until after the storm hit. In other words, we won't ask for help until the damage is done, while Nagin was saying let's get the troops on the ground before we need help.

The Governor of LA thought that Nagins request for the imposition of Martial Law was proposterous, but in light of the lawlessness that soon followed, it wasn't such a bad idea after all. Nagin had the foresight to see that the Cat 5 storm that was coming was a MAJOR storm, and he tried to get the necessary assistance to deal with it but he was rebuked by the Governor. IMO, the Governor failed in her duty by downplaying the seriousness of the situation as it was conveyed to her by Nagin. President Bush, through consultations with the Governor, decided that the only Federal assistance required was a "wait and see" type of attitude. Looking back at it, Nagins request for Natl. Guards troops on the streets of New Orelans wasn't such a bad idea.

Hindsight is 20/20, and this post is not about pointing fingers. But, to respond to your question about what did Nagin do or what he didn't do, there's your answer. The Mayor of a city has to follow proper protocols (i.e. through the Governor) before receiving Federal assistance. In this case, the request was rebuked and was the reason for Nagins now famous frustrating and angry interview on the radio. He asked for help beforehand, and didn't get it. One could almost understand his frustration when three days after the storm, a sense of anarchy prevailed and the need for Natl Guard troops was becoming more and more necessary. How frustrating it must have been for him to witness all of that when he had predicted what was occuring and had requested Federal assistance.

I'm not here to blame anyone, and agree with DE that this is not a time for finger pointing. Work must be done, and the last thing those people need is to hear people blaming people. This is not a thread for Monday morning QB'ing.

I'd say it is time for finger pointing. Finding out who made mistakes that worsen a crisis only prepares one better for the next crisis.


Apparently Nagin feels that it's time also, because he's praising Bush's response while blaming the aftermath on "I need 24 hours" Blanco.

Apparently Nagin feels that it's time also, because he's praising Bush's response while blaming the aftermath on "I need 24 hours" Blanco.

I've never said in this post that Bush did anything wrong, although that's not to say that he didn't, but this thread is not about who did anything wrong. I've said all along that Nagin was an honest man who wanted to do the right thing. He wanted to do the right thing before the hurricane hit, and that's why he was so angry when no one did anything after he requested assistance. After meeting one on one with Bush, Nagin said he was happy with Bush's plans during their meeting. He has said all along that the beaurocratic red tape is what went wrong, not any one person. Perhaps it was the Governor that was at fault, perhaps it wasn't. But, in this thread you seem to suggest that Nagin didn't do the right thing, or at least you question what HAS he done? Well, the truth is that he did all he possibly could before, during, and after the hurricane. What happened after that is where the problem lies. The Governor and her reluctance to request the assistance that Nagin requested, is IMO, where the real issues lie.

Of Course Nagin is going to be pleased with what Bush has promised him during their one on one meeting. But, that meeting would not have taken place if Nagin hadn't kicked up such a stink about Federal assistance.

Curveball, you seem to be trying to make this thread a "Bush vs Nagin" thread, or even a "Democrat vs Republican" thread, when it is neither. I started this thread, and the reason for it was that Ray Nagin, the Mayor of New Orelans is and was everything that we, as Americans should expect from a Politician. He had incredible foresight, compassion, and courage to request what he felt they needed, and even more courage to speak out against those that rebuked his request.

Bush and his bullies will not proceed to blame the delays on the mayor and the governor. Watch the scramble. There'll be the claim that they didn't order the evacuation soon enough and the Fed Gov. couldn't enter N.Orleans when they should have because they weren't authorized to do so by the governor.
The claim will be BS and easily refuted by facts, of course, but the Bush faithful as usual will embrace any lie by Bush as the truth. The result will be few conversions among the morons, who have been practicing denial now for six years or so.
If any of you willfully blind are reading this post at the present time, try doing a little research: Bush had permission to enter N.O. from the start, ordered the Red Cross not to enter, and didn't need to ask anyone's permission in the first place, nor did he. If you think Bush was restrained by protocol and fretfully wringing his hands and awaiting authorization from the Mayor and Governor, who were screaming for aid, then you might as well start using your skull to bail water.

Sending people to the superdome without providing food and water. 2000 school buses under water which could have been used to evacuate people. Blaming others all while running to Baton Rouge. Yes what a great leader!

Sending people to the superdome without providing food and water. 2000 school buses under water which could have been used to evacuate people. Blaming others all while running to Baton Rouge. Yes what a great leader!

Boy, you really are misinformed!! But, it could be worse, they could have ran to New Jersey.

Mayor Nagin didn't follow the local emergency plan that was in place. Didn't bother to evacuate the residents. Everybody saw the storm coming. You my friend are the one who is misinformed. The local goverments are the first responders. Oh and by the way we in NJ would have provided food and water in our shelters. No need for the personal attacks this is not the smack forum.

All should see this!

http://billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html

Mayor Nagin didn't follow the local emergency plan that was in place. Didn't bother to evacuate the residents. Everybody saw the storm coming. You my friend are the one who is misinformed. The local goverments are the first responders. Oh and by the way we in NJ would have provided food and water in our shelters. No need for the personal attacks this is not the smack forum.

Exactly WHAT local emergency plan was in place? And, if there was one in place, who established it? If you were informed about what took place, which I have my doubts, you would know that Mayor Nagin requested Federal assistance in the form of National Guard troops before the hurricane hit. In addition, Nagin ordered a 100% mandatory evacuation of the city before the hurricane hit. So, where do you get your information that Nagin didn't evacuate the residents?

The only accuracy in your post is that everybody saw the storm coming. And that is precisely why Nagin requested, through proper channels, assistance from the Federal Govt. Specifically, he requested that the Governor of Lousiana request the President to provide National Guard troops as well as Military troops to assist with the evacuation and the pending recovery effort. I challenge you to find any information to dispute that, as the Governor herself even acknowledges Nagins request. As for your school bus theory, Nagin suggested that New Orleans needed more than just the school buses that they had, they needed every bus in the country to head to New Orelans. Again, Nagins request for a more widespread response to the PENDING storm was denied.

Even though you mention that local governments are the "first responders", you are absolutely 100% wrong in your assertion that Nagin has/had the authority to act prior to the storm. He used his authority inasmuch as he ordered the evacuation, however, the Mayor of a city does not have the authority to order, or assign Federal troops to the effort. The Mayor has to follow proper protocols when requesting Federal assistance. In this case, it was Nagin who requested that the Governor convene the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) in order to co-ordinate Federal troops to assist with the evacuation and the subsequent rescue efforts. You mention that "local governments" are the first responders, yet you're clearly ill-informed on the inner workings of our Governments structure. For if you knew how it worked, you wouldn't make such a comment as that of local governments are the first responders. Nagin did what he had to do, and then some.

So, even though you can assert that I am misinformed, I can assure you that you're wrong in that assesment. I've been a Manager with the Federal Government for many, many years, and I know a thing or two about who can, or can not, request FEMA to begin implementing Federal assistance in response to a Natural disaster. Perhaps you should do some research into things like that before you make a comment about how local Governments can be "responders".

http://www.cityofno.com/SystemModules/PrintPage.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26

City of New Orleans Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan

This is interesting

Certain hazards, such as a hurricane, provide some lead time for coordinating an evacuation. However, this can not be considered a certainty. Plus, the sheer size of an evacuation in response to an approaching hurricane creates the need for the use of community-wide warning resources, which cannot be limited to our City's geographical boundaries. Evacuation of major portions of our population, either in response to localized or citywide disasters, can only be accomplished if the citizens and visitors are kept informed of approaching threats on a timely schedule, and if they are notified of the need to evacuate in a timely and organized manner. If an evacuation order is issued without the mechanisms needed to disseminate the information to the affected persons, then we face the possibility of having large numbers of people either stranded and left to the mercy of a storm, or left in an area impacted by toxic materials.

I guess the city of NO was O.K. with mass casualties.

I do agree with you that alot of the blame must fall on the good governor of Louisiana, but this thread was not about assigning blame. It was about nagin and if he is a good leader. I will take Guilliani!

I do agree with you that alot of the blame must fall on the good governor of Louisiana, but this thread was not about assigning blame. It was about nagin and if he is a good leader. I will take Guilliani!

1- You're correct, this is not about assigning blame. However, you havent' rebutted my account of Nagin requesting Federal assistance, through established protocols, before the hurricane hit. You suggested, in no uncertain terms, that Nagin made a lot of mistakes and was somehow at fault for the resulting chaotic response from the Federal Government. Yet, you only mentioned it once, and have yet to offer any concrete reasons why Nagin was at fault for anything.

2- This is not a thread about Giuliani vs Nagin. It's not about who's at fault, and neither is it about the Governor of Lousiana being at fault, even though I think she made several gross errors of judgement. It's about the fact that Nagin did what he has the authority to do, with the best of intentions, and acted in the best interests of his city with great foresight and responsibility. His Superiors, in this case, failed him, IMO.

3- This thread is about Nagin being what I think Americans should expect from Politicians. He didn't act like a typical Politician by having news conferences to get his face on the news, he didn't thank everybody and their brother for a great job, and he did the morally right thing. When his request for Federal assistance was denied, he was angry. He expressed his anger in a heartfelt, compassionate, and human way. When he met with Bush, he expressed his satisfaction and said it was time to move on. His emotions were real and unscripted. Very few Politicians can have such real reactions when being thrust into the limelight.

So, again, I ask you, what is it that you think Nagin did or didn't do that gives you the impression that he is anything other than a good Politician acting in the best interests of his city, and more importantly, a good human being. Nagin acted within the proper protocols of our Governmental structure, and had every right to be angry when his requests were squashed simply because the storm hadn't hit yet.

BTW: The crack about NJ was a joke. Nothing personal!!

Nagin has handled himself like a human being, and not like an egotistical politician wanting to be in the limelight.

JP Fair wrote:

What happened after that is where the problem lies. The Governor and her reluctance to request the assistance that Nagin requested, is IMO, where the real issues lie.

Sure looks like you are assigning blame

JP Fair wrote:

- This is not a thread about Giuliani vs Nagin. It's not about who's at fault, and neither is it about the Governor of Lousiana being at fault, even though I think she made several gross errors of judgement.

Again assigning blame

JP Fair wrote:

It's about the fact that Nagin did what he has the authority to do, with the best of intentions, and acted in the best interests of his city with great foresight and responsibility

Great foresight would include evacuating your city, please see the following line from the City of New Orleans Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan under the mayor section.

[u]* Supply transportation as needed in accordance with the current Standard Operating Procedures.[/u]

Why didn't he send the buses that are now under water to evacuate his citizens? You must consider this when evaluating whether he is a good leader.

JP Fair wrote:

His Superiors, in this case, failed him

JP

You have repeatedly assigned blame and have not shown anything he has done to help his citizens.

JP Fair wrote:

3- This thread is about Nagin being what I think Americans should expect from Politicians. He didn't act like a typical Politician by having news conferences to get his face on the news, he didn't thank everybody and their brother for a great job, and he did the morally right thing. When his request for Federal assistance was denied, he was angry. He expressed his anger in a heartfelt, compassionate, and human way. When he met with Bush, he expressed his satisfaction and said it was time to move on. His emotions were real and unscripted. Very few Politicians can have such real reactions when being thrust into the limelight.

Yelling, screaming, cursing and lashing out are not good qualities for our leaders. They must be calm and collected. If their leaders are out of control the citizens will not respond positively.

JP Fair Wrote:

So, again, I ask you, what is it that you think Nagin did or didn't do that gives you the impression that he is anything other than a good Politician acting in the best interests of his city, and more importantly, a good human being. Nagin acted within the proper protocols of our Governmental structure, and had every right to be angry when his requests were squashed simply because the storm hadn't hit yet.

He did not use all means to evacuate the citizens of NO. Unfortunatley good intentions do not save people from the impending storm or the flooding that followed. i believe their is blame to be assigned to all levels of the goverment, but in my mind you have not shown me why Nagin is a good leader.




[/u]

Yelling, screaming, cursing and lashing out are not good qualities for our leaders. They must be calm and collected. If their leaders are out of control the citizens will not respond positively.

Most of your thread is simply too lacking in substantive information to warrant a response, so I'll save it. I did not use this to assign blame, it's you that chose to pit Nagin vs others. But, regarding the above, if you requested Federal assistance in the form of National Guard troops before the hurricane hit because the Governor didn't see the need to interrupt George Bush from his vacation, you'd be pretty damn angry too. When his requests for Troops, Martial Law, Buses being brought in from all over the country, FEMA intervention, and a host of other requests were blocked by the Governor, you'd be pretty damn angry. and, we don't want and/or need Politicians that can let those drastic errors go unnoticed. We need politicians who are willing to stand up and face their superiors and express their frustration. If Nagin didn't have a valid point, why was Bush the first person he wanted to meet with? Because he knew Nagin had valid points.

So, as much as you might try and turn this thread into assigning blame, it's simply about praising Nagin for his actions. He acted consistant with his authority as a mayor, and consistant with his best interests for hte city of New Orleans. Read up on what a Mayor can and can't do and you might become more familiar with it.

So, say all you want about assigning blame, but let's talk about what Nagin did and didn't do. Don't talk about blame being spread around, talk about how he requested Natioinal Guard troops from the Governor and how she rebuked it. If you did that, and that happened to you, you'd be angry too. Politicians have every right to be angry when their city is being destroyed right in front of them when they could have prevented most of it simply by heeding his original request for Federal assistance.

No disrespect ot you NJ, but you're obvious lack of information about how our Government is structured with relation to getting Federal assistance is painfully obvious. So, feel free to make this a blaming game, but in reality, it's not. It's about Nagin being a good person with good intentions. It's funny, Bush has said the exact same thing that I'm saying right now, about him being a capable leader of the city of New Orleans. You're in the minority on this one, until you can explain why his requests for Federal assistance the day before the hurricane hit were rebuked by the Governor and the President. Can you?

Oh, and one other thing, Nagin requested Federal assistance in evacuating the city. Again, his request was denied for reasons that have not been explained yet.