The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

You can say whatever you want about Campell. But last night he showed he needs to sit and learn for one or two years. He threw a whole lot of turnovers playing against guys who won't even be in the NFL next week. It took him three years to learn the college game. Last night he looked like a rookie. Brunell, last season clearly showed that Ramsey is the better Qb. Okay Brunell looked good in the preseason, here is why. He is a good backup and when playing against backups he is going to look good. Secondly he looked better than Ramsey last preseason, it didn't translate into the regular season. Love Ramsey or hate him, for this year and next he is the best Qb we got.

John Manfreda wrote:Okay Brunell looked good in the preseason, here is why. He is a good backup and when playing against backups he is going to look good.

I think you can make the same assessment with Ramsey. The highlights of his short career seem to have happened whenever he came off the bench. Yes, he had some good games in '03, but really, he's been the best when his come in in relief of a QB (except last year vs. the Gints).

That's how his legend was born. He relieved Wuerffel and became a "star" against the Titans. (The Saints quickly brought him down to Earth)

We've been so hungry for success, that we've bought into Ramsey being "the Franchise", when he isn't. He's thinking too much about not making mistakes, and it is costing him his confidence. He still doesn't look comfortable.

Yes, Ramsey is our starter, and yes, he deserves our supprt, but, he needs to do those things that only HE can do to get his mind straight to play the position as as starter with the same "nothin'to lose" mentality that he's displyed as a back-up.

I half-way agree with you on this Manfreda, but it's been posted here time and again that Jason would need a lot of work which is why they went and got him now.

But your assessment of Brunell is off.
Mark has lead the team well, moved the chains and has made good decisions. He has had zip on the ball, made good reads and has been getting it down the field. These things for the most part were missing. The fact that he is playing against backups is beside the point he is functioning as the Field General and that's what you need regardless of the competion.

Ramsey is the QB. Is he the best we got?
According to Joe Gibbs... YEP!

1niksder wrote:I half-way agree with you on this Manfreda, but it's been posted here time and again that Jason would need a lot of work which is why they went and got him now.

But your assessment of Brunell is off.
Mark has lead the team well, moved the chains and has made good decisions. He has had zip on the ball, made good reads and has been getting it down the field. These things for the most part were missing. The fact that he is playing against backups is beside the point he is functioning as the Field General and that's what you need regardless of the competion.

Ramsey is the QB. Is he the best we got?
According to Joe Gibbs... YEP!

Additionally, Brunell is scrambling well to buy himself time to make the pass. He is throwing well on the run. I like Ramsey but I think his confidence is down. I think he may be trying too hard not to make a mistake instead of letting the game come naturally. Easy for me to say from my couch, hard to prove..I know. This is just one man's opinion and I don't claim to be an expert.

Here's my thing though..I know Brunell can beat the Bears in week 1. I can't make the same definitive statement about Ramsey in week 1. Maybe Ramsey is the better option down the line. But we need wins and we need 'em fast.

Thoughts?

But your assessment of Brunell is off.
Mark has lead the team well, moved the chains and has made good decisions. He has had zip on the ball, made good reads and has been getting it down the field. These things for the most part were missing. The fact that he is playing against backups is beside the point he is functioning as the Field General and that's what you need regardless of the competion.

Yeah he has done this against backups, not against starters. Mark Brunell was good last offseason.

WuSkinsFan wrote:

1niksder wrote:I half-way agree with you on this Manfreda, but it's been posted here time and again that Jason would need a lot of work which is why they went and got him now.

But your assessment of Brunell is off.
Mark has lead the team well, moved the chains and has made good decisions. He has had zip on the ball, made good reads and has been getting it down the field. These things for the most part were missing. The fact that he is playing against backups is beside the point he is functioning as the Field General and that's what you need regardless of the competion.

Ramsey is the QB. Is he the best we got?
According to Joe Gibbs... YEP!

Additionally, Brunell is scrambling well to buy himself time to make the pass. He is throwing well on the run. I like Ramsey but I think his confidence is down. I think he may be trying too hard not to make a mistake instead of letting the game come naturally. Easy for me to say from my couch, hard to prove..I know. This is just one man's opinion and I don't claim to be an expert.

Here's my thing though..I know Brunell can beat the Bears in week 1. I can't make the same definitive statement about Ramsey in week 1. Maybe Ramsey is the better option down the line. But we need wins and we need 'em fast.

Thoughts?

Ramsey is the best we got right now.

At this point, I agree with Manfreda that Ramsey is the best choice to start, but I've come to see the value of Brunell as well. He was throwing ropes last night and would have had outstanding stats except for Antonio's incidents. I am positive about both QB's and think Campbell looks great for the future. As angry as I was about the FO in relation to a few of its moves in the off-season, I'm beginning to see Gibbs with the old respect.

I had a thought this morning...

Maybe the reason Brunell looks better than Ramsey in the preseason is because there are no gameplans, and Brunell is experienced enough to wing it, whereas Ramsey has yet to gain that kind of experience.

I think we all are a little anxious because so many facets of this team look pretty good right now. The only concern is now down to the QB! This is not because they are playing badly but that this is our only question mark!
We have to have patience and know that Joe and Greg are very close to everything that is happening and they want wins just like we do but they also want what is best for the team over this season and next.

These 2 guys will be okay and Brunell is a better back up than Ramsey - so lets' get it on.
Mistakes will happen but this team is going to the playoffs because we are a better team than most of the NFL. Not domiant yet but we are getting there.

Next year's QB will be a QB that can take us to the SB. We were restricted with how much we could do with this position (and the team) this year!

Ramsey or Brunnell - let's be honest, they are both mediocre QB's. Brunnell throws harder (which may not always be a good thing - ask Antonio Brown), he has more fire in his eye, is a much better scrambler, and has more experience.

Ramsey sucks. He gets sacked all day long, can't move out of the pocket, is afraid to run like a little pansy, he is not a good leader, and not a very likable guy.

On the other hand, Brunnell also has his faults in that sometimes he gets on very inconsistent streaks (i.e. over-throwing the ball on many occassions).

In my opinion, overall, Brunnell is still a better QB than Ramsey.

However, the reason why Ramsey will start is because Gibbs gave Brunnell his shot last season as the starter. Now, Gibbs is going to give the shot to Patrick for at least two games. If we are still scoring under 10 points a game, I see Gibbs benching Patrick.

We'll have to see what happens. Maybe somehow, someway Ramsey will turn it up a notch. He just lacks that Brett Favre confidence. Ramsey is a pansy QB in my opinion. He needs to step it up, show some leadership, and maybe he'll get more fan support.

I love the Redskins, so I want him to do well. He really is just a disappointing QB. He is not a play maker and doesn't put his neck on the line. If he would only run a little bit more, then maybe I would respect him.

Yorgi wrote:In my opinion, overall, Brunnell is still a better QB than Ramsey.

Good thing you aren't the one making the decision!

Unfortunately this pre-season has really exposed P. Ramsey's weaknesses. He does not see the field very well and does appear to process visual info quickly enough to be effective. Also it doesn't help that he still seems to suffer from the Post-Spurrier syndrome.

Keep in mind that I do not believe we have seen the plays in the offense that PRam is most effective executing.

Getting rid of the ball quickly is not his forte and when folks view the film they are going to send the house on every play. I know I would until he can prove otherwise.

Brunnel by game 3.

Brunell has proven to be the best of the three. Make no mistake about it, he will get his chance before this season is over.

cvillehog wrote:I had a thought this morning...

Maybe the reason Brunell looks better than Ramsey in the preseason is because there are no gameplans, and Brunell is experienced enough to wing it, whereas Ramsey has yet to gain that kind of experience.

I think that there's a lot to that. I noticed that by the end of the year we started scoring a lot on our first possession. You could see Gibbs' elaborate gameplan and misdirection coming through as the drawn up plays flowed together quite beautifully and each play set up the next. I thought that this was especially true in the 49ers game.

That's what the Gibbs teams of old did, he would draw up the first 25 plays and then run them together and they all fed off one another to the point that the opposing defense had no chance to predict what would happen next.

If Ramsey is given all week to just run these plays over and over I think he'll start the games better and that will make a huge difference as he often struggles until he gets a few snaps under his belt. If he can come out of the gates positively he will have better games. A lot of this preseason has seemed like it was experimentation and just trying to get him a good rapport with his recievers. We haven't seen a lot of the Gibbs' game plan, I mean Ramsey's favorite target, ey, has barely been used yet and he will be a much bigger factor in the regular season. Not only that, but it also really helps having an All Pro back behind you for an entire game too.

Yorgi wrote:Ramsey or Brunnell - let's be honest, they are both mediocre QB's. Brunnell throws harder (which may not always be a good thing - ask Antonio Brown), he has more fire in his eye, is a much better scrambler, and has more experience.

Ramsey sucks. He gets sacked all day long, can't move out of the pocket, is afraid to run like a little pansy, he is not a good leader, and not a very likable guy.

On the other hand, Brunnell also has his faults in that sometimes he gets on very inconsistent streaks (i.e. over-throwing the ball on many occassions).

In my opinion, overall, Brunnell is still a better QB than Ramsey.

However, the reason why Ramsey will start is because Gibbs gave Brunnell his shot last season as the starter. Now, Gibbs is going to give the shot to Patrick for at least two games. If we are still scoring under 10 points a game, I see Gibbs benching Patrick.

We'll have to see what happens. Maybe somehow, someway Ramsey will turn it up a notch. He just lacks that Brett Favre confidence. Ramsey is a pansy QB in my opinion. He needs to step it up, show some leadership, and maybe he'll get more fan support.

I love the Redskins, so I want him to do well. He really is just a disappointing QB. He is not a play maker and doesn't put his neck on the line. If he would only run a little bit more, then maybe I would respect him.

Dumb post, any Qb that took a beating like Ramsey did under Spurrier is not a pansy.

John Manfreda wrote:

Yorgi wrote:Ramsey or Brunnell - let's be honest, they are both mediocre QB's. Brunnell throws harder (which may not always be a good thing - ask Antonio Brown), he has more fire in his eye, is a much better scrambler, and has more experience.

Ramsey sucks. He gets sacked all day long, can't move out of the pocket, is afraid to run like a little pansy, he is not a good leader, and not a very likable guy.

On the other hand, Brunnell also has his faults in that sometimes he gets on very inconsistent streaks (i.e. over-throwing the ball on many occassions).

In my opinion, overall, Brunnell is still a better QB than Ramsey.

However, the reason why Ramsey will start is because Gibbs gave Brunnell his shot last season as the starter. Now, Gibbs is going to give the shot to Patrick for at least two games. If we are still scoring under 10 points a game, I see Gibbs benching Patrick.

We'll have to see what happens. Maybe somehow, someway Ramsey will turn it up a notch. He just lacks that Brett Favre confidence. Ramsey is a pansy QB in my opinion. He needs to step it up, show some leadership, and maybe he'll get more fan support.

I love the Redskins, so I want him to do well. He really is just a disappointing QB. He is not a play maker and doesn't put his neck on the line. If he would only run a little bit more, then maybe I would respect him.

Dumb post, any Qb that took a beating like Ramsey did under Spurrier is not a pansy.

Agreed, you beat to this post manfreda

I don't know what a pansy is, but I do know only a fool would take that kind of beating.

Yorgi wrote:Ramsey or Brunnell - let's be honest, they are both mediocre QB's. Brunnell throws harder (which may not always be a good thing - ask Antonio Brown), he has more fire in his eye, is a much better scrambler, and has more experience.

Ramsey sucks. He gets sacked all day long, can't move out of the pocket, is afraid to run like a little pansy, he is not a good leader, and not a very likable guy.

On the other hand, Brunnell also has his faults in that sometimes he gets on very inconsistent streaks (i.e. over-throwing the ball on many occassions).

In my opinion, overall, Brunnell is still a better QB than Ramsey.

However, the reason why Ramsey will start is because Gibbs gave Brunnell his shot last season as the starter. Now, Gibbs is going to give the shot to Patrick for at least two games. If we are still scoring under 10 points a game, I see Gibbs benching Patrick.

We'll have to see what happens. Maybe somehow, someway Ramsey will turn it up a notch. He just lacks that Brett Favre confidence. Ramsey is a pansy QB in my opinion. He needs to step it up, show some leadership, and maybe he'll get more fan support.

I love the Redskins, so I want him to do well. He really is just a disappointing QB. He is not a play maker and doesn't put his neck on the line. If he would only run a little bit more, then maybe I would respect him.

As far as i knew Ramsey actually has the stronger arm and has been working on putting more touch and less zip on his passes. And from every account and interview, be it radio or television, patrick has always been incredibly polite, always tries to say the right thing and is pretty well spoken (although dude says "obviously" way to much). So im not sure where your getting that he has a weak arm and is unlikable. As far as being a pansy.. well anyone who would even step on a football field after the midevil beating he took under spurrier is no pansy. Especially after he got that DDT by Jason Taylor who i still think was really Jake the Snake in a Miami Uniform. Are you sure your not watching Foote'ball and not FOOTball? I do agree as pretty much everyone on this board would concur, Brunell has played better in the Preseason. I just watched him make a sick juke against B-more and complete a nice pass to Koslowski, and generally play well. I would never defend Brunell after last year, but to be fair the whole team was not really firing on all cylinders and was still adjusting to a new coach/scheme etc. Who knows, Im just ready for some Regular Season Ball.

I think what Yorgi here is trying to say is that Ramsey is afraid to make decisions, he's afraid to throw interceptions, he's afraid to take risks over & over again.... this is why he holds on to the ball so long, this is why he takes a beating, this is why he takes so many sacks....

If you watch Favre play... .he throws a lot of dumb interceptions, but he's great about letting it go and coming back and taking more risks... he doesn't hesitate on decisions....he zings balls to his receivers... and because he takes so many risks, the good passes, out weigh the bad ones... Brett Farve is nowhere near the best QB mechanically, or decision wise... but he is great mentally, and has a hell of an arm... Ramsey has a hell of an arm... he's just not very strong mentally....

but pansy might not the right word... performing in front of 90,000 fickle fans is no easy task... he just lacks confidence... something he has to gain this year... because this is probably his last shot as a skin...

Shabba wrote:Brunell has proven to be the best of the three. Make no mistake about it, he will get his chance before this season is over.

When this does indeed happen a lot of the Ramsey fans are going to be owing me a huge apology AND THEY KNOW WHO THEY ARE.

cvillehog wrote:

Yorgi wrote:In my opinion, overall, Brunnell is still a better QB than Ramsey.

Good thing you aren't the one making the decision!

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote: When this does indeed happen a lot of the Ramsey fans are going to be owing me a huge apology AND THEY KNOW WHO THEY ARE.

How can anyone owe YOU an apology? There are dozens out there waiting for your apologies for all of your previous duck and move shticks, but they don't get one.

Apologies require respect... I just don't see you garnering any of either.

All you do is hate monger... sure eventually you'll be right about something... if you throw enough crap against the wall... some of it will stick. But it hardly makes the odd one that you might hit on worthy of an apology -- regardless of what it is.

Are you going to apologize to everyone for statements made that DIDN'T come to fruition? Not bloody likely.

You never have in the past, and there isn't enough time in a day.

But break off a lump of cheese for you to enjoy with that whine.

BossHog wrote:

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote: When this does indeed happen a lot of the Ramsey fans are going to be owing me a huge apology AND THEY KNOW WHO THEY ARE.

How can anyone owe YOU an apology? There are dozens out there waiting for your apologies for all of your previous duck and move shticks, but they don't get one.

Apologies require respect... I just don't see you garnering any of either.

All you do is hate monger... sure eventually you'll be right about something... if you throw enough crap against the wall... some of it will stick. But it hardly makes the odd one that you might hit on worthy of an apology -- regardless of what it is.

Are you going to apologize to everyone for statements made that DIDN'T come to fruition? Not bloody likely.

You never have in the past, and there isn't enough time in a day.

But break off a lump of cheese for you to enjoy with that whine.

I think you see the truth coming but don't want to admit it. I have been consistent in my posts regarding my views and no one can argue that.

Hey whatever helps you get through a day... knock yourself out.

If I had the time, I'd dig up the 10-15 posts where I have taken the time to refute everything you have said only to have you bolt to another thread and re-start your same old shtick.

Tell yourself whatever you like, but I think the community is wise to your garbage.

Consistent?

Try consistently evasive.