The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

. . From what we hear, quarterback Patrick Ramsey took Friday’s game, and the loss, very hard. A teammate said he was very down about the whole thing on Saturday, feeling as if he’d let the team down. Ramsey is clearly under a lot of pressure and understands that he’s the wild card in the Redskins’ season.

He’s a good kid who doesn’t deserve to be booed. But this is also part of the business and he can silence critics with his play. So far he hasn’t done that.

http://redskins.foxsports.scout.com/2/428303.html?refid=400

I actually do feel sorry for the poor guy, even though he sucks a little bit.

darkwing99 wrote:I actually do feel sorry for the poor guy, even though he sucks a little bit.

For some reason, your little comment at the end made me laugh.

Hopefully Ramsey will bounce back on Friday night. I can't wait to see it!!

Yeah.....after his second stupid interception. The kind that make you say What the Heck real loud and/or make you throw something across the room. Ramsey jumped up and down and punched himself in the helmet a few times. Randy Thomas, who was standing right next to him, grabbed him and must have said something to him too calm him down some. It seems like Ramsey knew he stunk it up a little bit that game, but I have confidence in him. We'll see how he does against a real good defense tomorrow night.

I really don't see how he can be under that much pressure. All we need is 21 points a game. We have a good defense. We're not the Rams. We don't need to score at least 30 points a game to have a chance at winning. We just need 21. Thats it. I don't understand where the pressure is in that.

That is my two cents........

darkwing99 wrote:He’s a good kid who doesn’t deserve to be booed. But this is also part of the business and he can silence critics with his play. So far he hasn’t done that.

Right on. I am on his side to do it. Go Patrick!

Nice statement in your signature Redskins Rule!

How anyone can judge a quarterback who's running an offense that is the polar opposite of the package that they will run in the regular season is beyond me.

But people continue to do it, so instead of biting my tongue, I'm going to say my peice about a couple of things and hope that some of you at least listen to what I have to say.

Patrick Ramsey has definitely not played great in the offseason. He has thrown some bad passes and more than just the interceptions. He still does not look comfortable in the pocket. Obviously getting killed your first few years in the league has a lot to do with it, but that's definitely something that Patrick is going to have to develop... a confidence in the pocket being there.

But let me digress a little and go into some backgrond stuff that the media pundits either miss, ignore or both. Because while they are not always right and in fact often very wrong, the media often dictate what a lot of Joe Q. Public believes.

Joe Gibbs runs a ball control offense. Now I know that ball control has become so cliche that it lacks meaning but Joe Gibbs runs the purest form of ball control offense... and that doesn't just mean that he likes to run the clock down by constantly running the ball. About 90% of the playbook are plays that are designed to kill clock AND take as many plays as you can to move down the field... that doesn't just mean running the ball.... that means even using the passing game to yield 3 to 5 yard chunks as opposed to going for 20 at a time.

The Gibbs era II has NEVER seen this done effectively. The entire premise is predicated on dominating the trenches and winning chunks of the field 3 to 5 yards at a time. This isn't to say that every play centers around it, but it is important that you truly understand the mentality of it.

This offense RELIES on the running back and the h-back to carry much of the load for the offense.

Not the quarterback.

How many touches do ey and Portis have in the preseason? Our two biggest offensive components have yet to contribute in the preseason and people are casting this offense under the bus before the season even starts.

It's completely unfair to judge a QB who's coach has chosen to let the QB feel uncomfortable and play out of the element, rather than show his hand. This isn't a slight on Gibbs, pretty obvious why he does it... he always has been very secretive about everything to the point of even being considered paranoid.

This is on the fans. Because the fams should recognize what is going on out there and stop putting so much faith in both what the media tell you and what you are seeing on the field. Preseason is a glorified practice people... the Redskins went 0-4 in one of the preseasons of a SB year.

And what is happening is that a fan base that should be smart enough to realize that Patrick is out of his element is propogating the problem themselves. As I said, Patrick needs to develop confidence in his pocket, something that he needs to do to be successful in this offense. But it is something that will come from experiencing it, not just from hoping it will be so. And he hasn't experienced much of it.

The o-line has played great so far, don't get me wrong. But when the defense knows that you aren't going to run the ball much, they're certainly able to tee off at the line more and drop men into coverage as opposed to stacking the box. When they know that they don't have to contend with arguably your premier short yardage reception guy either, they can really back off and play the pass.

The EXACT opposite should be true when the Joe Gibbs offense is running it's true playbook and is using Clinton portis and Chris ey.

And yet still the fans will boo Ramsey from the moment he throws an incompletion until the moment he throws a touchdown. And with no consideration of the fact that his major hurdle is his confidence.

So what the heck am I trying to say?

Ramsey needs some time... but he also needs some support... both from his team and from the fans. He possesses all of the tools essential to be a quarterback in this system... he's bright, he has a strong arm, he's tough, and he has good leadership ability. Joe Gibbs is a much smrter football guy than I am so I'm sure he knows all this... but i do hope he recognizes that at some point playing a vanilla package to keep things close to the vest, may very well be outweighed by having your QB need to develop confidence and play in his element a little bit.

I ranted this long because I want the fans to recognize how much of a differnce CP $ CC make to this offense AND to Patrick's ability to develop a confidence zone.

Winning the wars in the trenches is the only real way for him to do that.

Running the ball successfully is the only way to make this offense work... the passing game will always be complimentary, never predominant.

And none of this is to say that Patrick gets a free ride and can tank the season for the Redskins. He needs to step up now. He needs to take the bull by the horns and make this team his. He ALSO needs to recognize that this is glorified practice and not get down on himself for all of the above stated reasons.

The fans need to SUPPORT THE TEAM, and subsequently SUPPORT PATRICK. Not blindly... but with a little bit of knowledge and understanding of what is going on.

He has the potential to take this team to the playoffs, but it's going to take some time, some cohesion, some hard work and a little bit of faith.

21 points to win, I like that. Offense puts up 21 points or more and the defense will stop them and maybe score themselves.

Ramsey's got my support. I was down on him after the ints but he can play and last year he made great strides. I think he'll surprise all his critics when the season actually starts if not sooner.

I also think that he showed great maturity in the Bengals game. Even though he was so upset with his performance and he had made a few terrible plays he came back and was something like 5 for 6 with almost 70 yds on his final series. IMO, that shows a lot of guts and professionalism.

BTW, great post Boss!

Wow bossHog, uhmmm nice post.

Bravo, Boss Hog! I totally agree with you. Being in Oregon I had to watch the game on the NFL Networks schedule and ended up taping it, watching it a quarter at a time over four days. The one thing I noticed about Ramsey is he threw long every single time. no dump offs to the running backs, no screens, no hitches, everything was long.

Yes he made bad decisions and/or bad throws on the two interceptions, but he is not going to be hauling back and throwing long every snap.

Funny thing is, for all the talk about how Ramsey had to unlearn what Spurrier taught him, Gibbs seems to be calling plays in the pre-season that are more reminiscent of the Fun & Gun than an offense based on 50-gut & Counter-trey.

My feeling is Gibbs wants more big plays during the year, so he's calling them almost exclusively for Ramsey to get timing down with receivers.

I don't think there's any reason to boo in preseason. That's just silly...

I want Ramsey to do well, and I think the fans are supporting him. For the most part, everyone wanted Ram to start last year instead of Brunnel and that is stil the case.

However, that does not mean that we don't think he has major points to improve on. Your points are true, but the most important skill that Ramsey has to develop is the ability to manage the game.

Regardless to the "vanilla" packages of the pre-season, people get frustrated because the Ram needs to show that he is learning how to protect the football.

Have you ever seen him throw the ball away??

It is a rare sight, because he gets anxious and thinks that he can force a play when it is not there. It is not Ramsey's fault that no one got open...but it is his fault if he throws the ball in there anyway.

I think that is the only thing people want to see out of him this year. If he can protect the football and allow the special teams to complement the offense, but say (throwing the ball away instead of an int) and letting our FG unit kick for 3 points or punting to gain field position for the next posseession.,

With the type of defense we have, there is no excuse for Ramsey to continuously force bad reads.

We don't need him to be an all pro to lead us to the playoffs, we just need him to settle down and manage the game, and that is all I personally want from the kid.

Totally correct, Boss. Brilliant post that I hope people listen to...and this is coming from someone who once stalked you for five days with a vegtable juicer.

I also wonder if a part of the "pass heavy" offense that has been played in the pre-season is not to see just how effective the offense can be when it is deliberatly, either by injury or design, kept one-dimensional. Our passing offense was terrible for a good part of last season, and I personally have seen the injury to Portis' elbow, keeping him out of the pre-season games for the most part, as being a kind of blessing, as it allows me to see that even working a "vanilla" offensive scheme, the offense can put points on the board wtih just the passing game. Combine this with the knowledge that when the regular season starts, we will undoubtedly go to a more balanced, in all likelhood a predominantly ground game, I'm not too worried about anything. And even if I was, hey, it IS pre-season. Win-lose in pre-season don't mean DIDDLEY, I'd rather lose all the pre-season games and have a winning record in the regular season.

P.S. A vegetable juicer? Never mind, I don't think I really wanna know!

darkwing99 wrote:I actually do feel sorry for the poor guy, even though he sucks a little bit.

BossHog wrote:The fans need to SUPPORT THE TEAM, and subsequently SUPPORT PATRICK. Not blindly... but with a little bit of knowledge and understanding of what is going on.

13 years ago this statement would have been laughed at and ridiculed by all Redskin fans. At that time, it would have been clear that you SUPPORT your coaches and players if you trust them. If you do not, then you would not be a Redskin fan. Period.

This is a great post but I can not resist to see the frustration shared by several of us who have been Skins fans over several decades to have to remind our fan base that if you trust your coach, the principles that guide his work ethic, and his strategic plan of work, this kind of comment would be totally unnecessary.

13 years ago some of the critics would have been ridiculed, booed, and whistled out of the stadium (possibly this board if it had existed).

Joe Gibbs is not only creating a new Washington Redskin TEAM, he is also educating a new base of Washington Redskin FANS.

The only question is how long it will take for some to understand him. Hopefully not too long if we are as good fans as we claim to be.

We must ask ourselves seriously every week:

What have I done to support my team this week?

If you ask me, not too much lately. Boos after only four plays does not speak badly about Patrick or Joe. It speaks volumes about the attitude of our current fan base and their lack of understanding of Joe.

Go Patrick! Go Joe! Teach them!

He does suck so far and he also has a nasty throwing motion. Looks like he is 1/2 pushing the ball out and 1/2 throwing, like a girl. Looks a lil' sidearmed.

I hope he plays better, when he a had a cannon of an arm during his earlier years.

King Cali Skin wrote:He does suck so far and he also has a nasty throwing motion. Looks like he is 1/2 pushing the ball out and 1/2 throwing, like a girl. Looks a lil' sidearmed.

I hope he plays better, when he a had a cannon of an arm during his earlier years.

Never mind.

I feel bad for him, like a nice Mongol kid who just doesn't get it. Hopefully he can Genghis Kong the league this season and destroy the Cow-girls, Midget, Iggles and AFC West.

King Cali Skin wrote:He does suck so far and he also has a nasty throwing motion. Looks like he is 1/2 pushing the ball out and 1/2 throwing, like a girl. Looks a lil' sidearmed.

I hope he plays better, when he a had a cannon of an arm during his earlier years.

What are you talking about???

During the Bang-girl all night long game.
His throws didn't look fluid, maybe just me?
The motion looks odd, like he has something in his shoulder. I'll check out the Steelers game Friday.

Yeah....you should check out the game this Friday.

darkwing99 wrote:Wow bossHog, uhmmm nice post.

Right. That almost made me cry! Much RESPECT BH!!!!

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:Poor Ramsey?

Yeah he gets to throw 2 picks in the red zone last week and his "fan base" comes on here and defends him like he is some kind of cult leader with their stupid statistics and assertions that he is more accurate than Brady .

By the way BossHog, I would like to know how long you want to give Ramsey before he "tanks" this whole season? 2 games, 3 games, 4...or more?

At what point do you nail him to the bench before we waste another season on him and his lame excuses?

What season have we wasted on him? Had he started from game one last season, we would have been in the playoffs. When has Ramsey had a complete fair chance in a decent offensive scheme? And dont give me any of that "Fun and Gun" crap!

sch1977 wrote:

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:Poor Ramsey?

Yeah he gets to throw 2 picks in the red zone last week and his "fan base" comes on here and defends him like he is some kind of cult leader with their stupid statistics and assertions that he is more accurate than Brady .

By the way BossHog, I would like to know how long you want to give Ramsey before he "tanks" this whole season? 2 games, 3 games, 4...or more?

At what point do you nail him to the bench before we waste another season on him and his lame excuses?

What season have we wasted on him? Had he started from game one last season, we would have been in the playoffs. When has Ramsey had a complete fair chance in a decent offensive scheme? And dont give me any of that "Fun and Gun" crap!

Exactly, sch1977. All of the Ramsey haters with super-short memories are really getting annoying.

Let's give him his fair shot, ok?

Yeah, he tore it up in 2003 when he started. First he went bombs away against the Jets, then Atlanta, then we lost to the Giants in OT, and then he beat New England and we became the last team to beat them in what 20+ games, and then he got injured but still played the next eight weeks. That seems pretty good to me. And he did all of this after BREAKING HIS FOOT IN PRESEASON!!!

Then in 2004 he came in and went 3-4 in the last seven games. That doesn't seem that impressive but two of those games were against Philly, and one was against Pittsburg after they had just beaten New England and Philly back-to-back. He also won three of the last five games he played in.

So, when has he ever "tanked" a season?