The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I am one of the younger posters on this site, so I definetly do not remember Gibbs' first tenure. I also am one of the people that believes this exact team can win a superbowl, with no changes to the roster, maybe not this year but with some continuance maybe.
This question goes out to the older posters on teh site, I really would like to learn about how the circumstances were in Gibbs' first tenure in his second year. Basically all I know is his first year in the NFL wasn't a great one, and the next year he won the superbowl. But some questions come to mind? What were they predictiong us to be that year? How strong was our team then compared to this team? Was there uncertainty at the QB position? Did ew have legal troubles? Was our O-Line already established as great or did it have someting to prove? In the year before, was there a QB controversy such as the one like Brunell and Ramsey? Did we lose key players that people thought would hurt our team? Was our Defense top caliber and was our Offense weak or strong?
Thanks for your help guys, this will help me understand if Gibbbs has achieved victory with circumstances like the ones of this offseason.

I'm a young skins fan but i remember 91 pretty clear gibbs had started his first season 0-5 then the skins turned it around and they won the rest of their games that season the one thing about gibbs that seperates him from the rest is he really cares about his players his team the redskins when they talk about team in new england like they have been having solid role players playing as a team bringing in character players who want to make a difference that's the one thing that hasn't changed in football and that's why gibbs will win

WshSkins22 - refer to Welch's post in the ey thread. While it doesn't exactly answer your question, it gives you a great idea of how Gibbs uses players and what he looks for, etc. I'd post more but work beckons

http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic. ... 0&start=10

Here you go - it's on page 2...

Gibbs had come in from San Diego, where he was offensive coordinator with Fouts, Winslow, Joiner and that tremendous passing offense in the early 80s.

He came into Washington and tried to implement the same system, and it didn't really work very well. So he regrouped, and implemented the single back, two tight-end offense and went 8-3 the rest of the way.

The next year was the strike year, so things were a little odd. But Gibbs relied on a power running game, keeping teams off-balance with diminutive receivers. (Sound familiar?)

I think the similarities the second time around are:
in 2004, Gibbs tried to implement an offense he had used previously and it wasn't working early on. He tinkered during the season, and the team played better in the second half of 2004. I think if you look at how the played against the Giants and Minnesota plus playing Philly twice and Pittsburgh very tough, there's a lot of momentum coming into the 2005 season.

In Gibbs' second year, nobody was picking the Skins to go to the Super Bowl. While things had improved, they were still an 8-8 team, with a lot of question marks. I think you'll see Gibbs throw deep often early in games in 2005, to help create running room for Portis. I think you'll see less max-protect, with more 3 and 4 receiver sets, more stretch blocking schemes. And I think the addition of Jansen and Raybach to the line will cure much of the offense's troubles.

The other similarity is that Gibbs did nothing with the defense. That was all Ritchie Petibone. Whenever the other team got the ball, he would just turn to Petibone and say, Stop them. (good advice!) I think things work the same with Gregg Williams.

I am also a pretty young fan, I only remember the end of Gibbs' first term here. Well studying history has taught me that history usually repeats itself and hopefully history does repeat itself with Gibbs as head coach.

While I would agree with history repeating itself I would also add that some people allow things to happen and "go with the flow" as it were. Joe Gibbs is not one to "let it happen". He will make it happen and he will make "history repeat itself".

I think that we are very fortunate that he has Greg taking care of the D (a la Richie P) and he "only" needs to be really focusing on the offense. He still will take all the heat if we do not do well this time but I will also expect him to take no credit when we do well.

Joe Gibbs makes history - history does not make him!

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:I truly believe Gibbs will feel the same way too. In this era of free agency it is what have you done for me lately. Like it or not.

More predictions and I-know-more-than-you comments. Words like those are a great way to kill a pretty informative/realistic/insightful thread. Good job.

Gibbs' Hog wrote:

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:I truly believe Gibbs will feel the same way too. In this era of free agency it is what have you done for me lately. Like it or not.

More predictions and I-know-more-than-you comments. Words like those are a great way to kill a pretty informative/realistic/insightful thread. Good job.

LOL. Tell me what I have posted that is not the truth? I don't think you can.

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:

Gibbs' Hog wrote:

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:I truly believe Gibbs will feel the same way too. In this era of free agency it is what have you done for me lately. Like it or not.

More predictions and I-know-more-than-you comments. Words like those are a great way to kill a pretty informative/realistic/insightful thread. Good job.

LOL. Tell me what I have posted that is not the truth? I don't think you can.

*Sigh* Are you done yet? Since when are predictions the truth? You ARE Nostradamus aren't you!?!?!? The Jansen returning thread is still there for you to respond to... It's working it's way out of the first page though... better hurry up!

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:LOL. Tell me what I have posted that is not the truth? I don't think you can.

I'm keeping that one in stockroom.



I repeat............

In comparing gibbs first run to the second one.Gibbs in the first run had great sucess but also had his share of ups and downs.After winning his first super bowl he came back the next year and suffered a bad defeat to the raiders.Gibbs then lost his star quarter back to a leg injury and was forced to play a young unproven quarter back.I'm sure that alot of the sports writers and so called sports figures had written gibbs off as a one win super bowl wonder.Think of the time that had went buy between 83-84 to 86-87.like two or three years of wondering if gibbs could pull it off again.Also remember during that time their was someone named "joe montana" getting all the glory, bye alot of the sports writers(no harm to joe he was one of the best).Is all of this sounding familar? Gibbs is use to this stuff but never stops fighting.Just because, 2004 sucked doesn't mean all is lost in 2005.You have one of the best at the helm, of this team.If any one can get the mess of the past ten years back into shape for the skins, gibbs is the one.The second running as i see it.You have gibbs who came back and had nothing to gain bye doing so.The man came back because of his love for the washington redskins.What more can you say about that?Gibbs championship teams of the past all had great defenses, so he goes out and gets greg willams.Gibbs remembering what the vetran "doug willams" did for him.Gibbs goes out and gets "mark brunell", just trying things he knows that works but he got burned bye brunell/fumbling,inaccuracy,all toghter awful q.b. play.Gibbs wont give up on this venture either and has already admited that he will try anything to suceed.Gibbs will have a strong running game this year and will let ramsey take more shots down field.After gibbs seeing the defenses of last year.Im sure that he has already been drawing up new passing schemes.

refer to Welch's post in the ey thread.

I think I went into a little more detail on a different thread, but can't remember which one. It's the thread where someone asserted that Gibbs is only the "third best" coach in the division, "Another Doubter", at

http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic. ... c&start=10

In 1981, Gibbs had a much better foundation to start from, but not necessarily for the bombs-away offense he wanted to run. Joe T is quicker than Dan Fouts, maybe he thinks quicker under pressure, also, and Joe T, believe it or not, could throw a perfect cross-body block. Fouts was immobile. But Fouts was bigger, and had more of an arm, and had three big-time receivers. Including the real Kellen Winslow. That required some adjustment.

- Gibbs inherited a team, and joined an organization that had had a tradition of winning since George Allen took over in 1971, working from the start that Lombardi made in 1969.

- The sports entertainment media gave the Redskins no chance. Pardee had gone 8-8, 10-6, and 6-10. The Cowboys and Dick Vermeil's Eagles were the hot-shot teams in the NFC, although the AFC was though to be much stronger.

- Pardee's 6-10 was misleading, because Riggins had "retired", and the Skins lost several games they might have won...I remember a last second field goal (against the Broncos?) that Mark Mosely just missed. Under the record, Pardee had picked out a pack of undrafted or late round linebackers who just happened to be heavy hitters. Neil Olkiewicz, for instance, a University of Maryland-er, made the team at middle linebacker when Pardee heard the wallop he put on people. The defense used to play a volleyball game every Saturday afternoon, and somebody h=gave Neil O the net and ball, saying, "You're going to be around a long time, kid".

- As I mentioned on the other thread, Gibbs had some rock-solid guys from the beginning. He inherited Dave Butz, the DT who might not have gotten many sacks, but who was so strong that no one ever ran near him. He had Art Monk, John Riggins, and Joe T. There was no doubt that Joe was the starting QB.

- The wise media guys thought that Beathard was looney, like Joe Don, to draft OT Mark May in the first round in 1981, and then to trade a future first round for a third rounder that year because May's U Pitt teammate, Russ Grimm, was available. Beathard, Gibbs, and Bugel (newly hired), also found Jeff Bostic and Joe Jacoby, neither of whom were considered athletic enough to play.

- They still had some holes the first year, and I remember that those first few games were wild and slippery. The team could move the ball, but turned it over too much.

- In '82, the strike and SB 17 year, nobody recognized the Redskins until they beat the Cowboys in the NFC chamionship. Even though they went 9-1 to lead the regular season, they had lost to Dallas, so the papers called them a fluke, a sham, a piece of luck.

- Even when they crushed Atlanta and Minnesota in the first two rounds, people pointed to Art Monk being out and Joe Washington hurt, saying that the Skins could not win with a one-dimensional offense of Riggins-up the-middle. Nobody, except Redskin fans, looked at the time of possession, which was proabably around 40 minutes Redskins to 20 minutes. The Skins would have a lead with 10 or 15 minutes to play, and the opponent would never get the ball. Riggins to the left of Bostic, Riggins to the right of Bostic, and nothing fancy, like the counter-trey. Just Hog-power.

- The Cowboys were favored, and so were the Dolphins, who had just throttled the Jets in a strange "mud bowl" in Miami.

- Toward the end of SB 17, one of the announcers counted scores, and noticed tha the Redskins had won about 14 of their last 16 games, going back to '81.

- Then people noticed.

The difference now? Gibbs had less to start with.

You young fans are probably not aware that Joe Gibbs is head and tails above most every other head coach in the NFL. So let me assure you that he is.

The guy is in the Hall of Fame, and he won 3 different Superbowls with 3 different QB's, not to mention that he also lost a Superbowl...however the fact remains that he has taken this franchise to FOUR...count'em FOUR Superbowl appearances.

Why is Joe Gibbs superior? First, he is the greatest coach I have ever observed at making 2nd half changes to the offense. He is near genius at finding the weakness in the other teams defense. Many times he will use the first half as a means of testing the other team and feeling them out. I have witnessed MANY games in which the Skins were losing in the first half by 2 TD's or more, and the 2nd half was just a different game.

If we realize this skill of Joe Gibbs, we have to believe that if last year was the FIRST half of the season, then this is the second of the season coming up...and Gibbs has figured it out, has adapted, made changes, and is ready to exploit weaknesses. And indeed, we can see that Coach Gibbs has made MANY changes to the offense already. New QB starting this season. New wide receivers starting this season. New center starting this season. Even the tight ends will be different than those who STARTED last season. Plus with Jansen coming back....this already appears to be a totally different offense that began last season against Tampa. Of course, the biggest change of all will be in the play calling and the aggressive nature of taking shots downfield.

For all practical purposes, last years team is gone and we have a brand new offense in place.


I might make mention also that Joe Gibbs is a complete coach. He has also recognized that special teams can win you several games per year. We have gone out and obtained 4 or 5 new players in free agency and the draft with special teams specifically in mind.

No stone will be unturned as long as Joe Gibbs is coach of the Redskins.

P.S. The offensive line coach...Joe Bugel is one of the top 3 all time offensive line coaches. There is nobody.....and I mean NOBODY.....absolutely nobody better at that job. If Portis stays healthy, he will gain 1600 yards or MORE this season. Look for at least one of our 2 rookie tackles from last season to stick around and become a solid starter in the future. Bugel makes magic with average offensive linemen. In fact, having Ray Brown around is really like having an extra coach around. I don't doubt that Bugel wanted him back just to influence the younger guys.

I would bet the house on the Redskins making the playoffs this season, unless a bunch of teams in other, weaker divisions manage to all finish with 10-6 or 11-5 records.

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:As I have said before, thank goodness the bye is early this season. If we have a bad record, 1-2 or even 0-3 before the bye I will, and certainly legions of other real Redskins fans will be calling for changes.

Now is not the time to allow for the talent level on this team to languish and be content with another losing or mediocre season. No One's job is safe. Daniel Snyder is not going to accept it and neither will real Redskins fans. No more putting up with stupid excuses like: our O-line is problematic/injured or dropped passes or any of the past excuses that many seem to accept here.

I truly believe Gibbs will feel the same way too. In this era of free agency it is what have you done for me lately. Like it or not.

Why cant you post something along the lines of:

I think we will have a good team this year....

Our QB position is finally stable.....

I am ready to prove the naysayers wrong.....


All you post is negativity. Why dont you load up Madden 2005 on your PS2, and draft the players YOU want? And as soon as your OLB misses a tackle, trade him for a 7th round pick.

Let me try to provide an example of how I think the following post could hold the same reasonings, while being worded differently, to avoid the negative rhetoric bound to arise...

Original post:

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:As I have said before, thank goodness the bye is early this season. If we have a bad record, 1-2 or even 0-3 before the bye I will, and certainly legions of other real Redskins fans will be calling for changes.

Now is not the time to allow for the talent level on this team to languish and be content with another losing or mediocre season. No One's job is safe. Daniel Snyder is not going to accept it and neither will real Redskins fans. No more putting up with stupid excuses like: our O-line is problematic/injured or dropped passes or any of the past excuses that many seem to accept here.

I truly believe Gibbs will feel the same way too. In this era of free agency it is what have you done for me lately. Like it or not.

Proposed alterations:

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:As I have said before, thank goodness the bye is early this season. If we have a bad record, 1-2 or even 0-3 before the bye, I think many fans may be calling for changes, including myself.

I think the Redskins should be able to utilize the talent they have this year - if not, we may be looking at another mediocre season. No One's job is safe. Daniel Snyder will likely have a hard time putting up with certain players if their performance doesn't match their known abilities, and some fans might feel the same way. I personally believe that the players need to step it up, so that people can stop blaming our losses on an injured O-line and dropped passes, among other things. Those reasons certainly add to a poor record, but it would be nice to have other players step up their game if it happens again, so that we don't need to have these arguments.

I would imagine that Gibbs feels the same way, and hopefully he will help all the players reach their potential. In this era of free agency, I believe, the coach should have the mindset of "what have you done for me lately?" regarding most of the players. Granted, some players go through slumps, and some players need serious adjustments - so hopefully our stars (and backups) will rise to the occasion.

I think I encompassed most, if not all, of the sentiments expressed in the 1st post, and hopefully, I didn't offend anyone or attack anyones credibility in any way in the 2nd post. It should be an opinion, IMO, not a statement. THAT is reasoning, to me.

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:As I have said before, if we have a good record, real Redskins fans will be calling for celebration.

Now is the time to allow the talent level on this team to produce a winning season.

Fixed.

Skeletor wrote:In Gibbs' second year, nobody was picking the Skins to go to the Super Bowl. While things had improved, they were still an 8-8 team, with a lot of question marks. I think you'll see Gibbs throw deep often early in games in 2005, to help create running room for Portis. I think you'll see less max-protect, with more 3 and 4 receiver sets, more stretch blocking schemes. And I think the addition of Jansen and Raybach to the line will cure much of the offense's troubles.

The other similarity is that Gibbs did nothing with the defense. That was all Ritchie Petibone. Whenever the other team got the ball, he would just turn to Petibone and say, Stop them. (good advice!) I think things work the same with Gregg Williams.

In that case, I expect nothing short of the Super Bowl!!!

The most important thing to remember when discussing Gibbs I vs Gibbs II is that Joe Gibbs is adaptable. He's the Maguyver of Head Coaches. He's resourcefull, adaptable, and willing and able for change. He's willing to do whatever it takes, and will let nothing stop him from achieving his objective. He will work tirelessly and give it everything he's got. If it doesn't happen, then it won't be because lack of trying. There are some occasions where knowledge isn't the only thing you need. You need the will, the savvy, the motivation, the preparation, and the determination. As Joe Gibbs himself said "The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win".