The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Guys, guys....it´s not only about faith...it´s about character...it´s about a winning tradition, it´s about a proven system.

I´ve notice that most of the negative post come from young skins fans...and trust me...I too would feel sceptic if I would ve gone thru 14 yrs of losing... I guess like much of the young fans of the 70´s felt when Allen came on board after 25+ yrs of losing....and what he did??? trade trade trade for over the hill guys....but they were his guys... Character guys, winning guys.

Well the same goes for Gibbs, what he let go of Smoot? well he was good yes, but he´s not worth what he got paid...and yes it hurt losing him...but he´s very replesable...I bet Walt Harris is better and Rogers when ready will be the man. Pierce you say...Hmmmmmmm he got paid a lot for 1 good year dont you think? and if we have depth in a position is LB´s he will not be missed.

Coles...well as much a I hate to lose a guy like Coles... he got Balls...he didnt wanted to be a redskins...he wanted go back to NYC...he complaint about no getting enough balls thrown his way???????? he was second in thrown passes to a receiver...he didnt wanted to deal with his toe...see ya bud... Santana Moss, I dont think he´s better than Coles, but he does fit the model of Gibbs receivers (Clark, Sanders, Garrett, Charlie Brown)...he and Patten were atop of the leaderboard in Yards per Catch.

Remember...Gibbs got a team modeled to Spurrier suck up ofense, just as in 81 he got a bad Pardee ofense. It takes time to adjust to his ofense and this time around he has to adjust to not being in the game for 13 yrs....so pleaseeeee..

What you expected a 11-5 record last season?? a playoff berth? me too, but realisticly it was very dificult.

All of you guys crying about us not picking Williams or who knows who??? let me ask you something... since when ARE YOU GUYS BETTER EVALUATORS OF TALENT than our coaching staff... Yeah you guys the ones that last year were mad we didnt pick Winslow.... What Gibbs made a trade for Brunnell you say...well hell, he´s gonna makes mistakes...he´s human, but I wouldnt rule out Brunnell just yet.

We were close last year...if we would have score 4 more points in all our games...our record would have been 10-6 and our defense only gave up more than 18 pts 3 times and in one of those games, the ofense have up a return for td....So yes I am very optimistic about our prospects next year...there will be continuity...one more yrs under the system...

U´ll see...Right now I wouldnt want another coach to be in front of our team...Those guys will play for Gibbs.

Jorge

I´ve notice that most of the negative post come from young skins fans...and trust me...I too would feel sceptic if I would ve gone thru 14 yrs of losing... I guess like much of the young fans of the 70´s felt when Allen came on board after 25+ yrs of losing....and what he did??? trade trade trade for over the hill guys....but they were his guys... Character guys, winning guys.

Most of these Skins fans weren't even alive during the last superbowl season so who are they to judge Gibbs in any way, shape or form?

If you aren't at least 30 years old then you really don't know anything about the Redskins and especially Gibbs IMO.

Nice post Jorge.

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:If you aren't at least 30 years old then you really don't know anything about the Redskins and especially Gibbs IMO.[/color]

I take exception to that age limit, there, Redeemed. I'm "only" 26, and I definitely remember some winning skins teams, including that last superbowl. Also, where does someone like Jake fit into your analysis? He is still in high school, yet is one of the most knowledgeable fans on this board. Also, I do believe some of negativism has come from fans who have identified themselves as not being kids.

EDIT:
Sorry SKINZ_DOMIN8, the text color threw me off and I called you someone elses name! My bad.

cvillehog wrote:

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:If you aren't at least 30 years old then you really don't know anything about the Redskins and especially Gibbs IMO.[/color]

I take exception to that age limit, there, Redeemed. I'm "only" 26, and I definitely remember some winning skins teams, including that last superbowl. Also, where does someone like Jake fit into your analysis? He is still in high school, yet is one of the most knowledgeable fans on this board. Also, I do believe some of negativism has come from fans who have identified themselves as not being kids.

Thank you.

I guess if you haven't been paying attention to the message boards, then you really don't know anything about the members.

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:

I´ve notice that most of the negative post come from young skins fans...and trust me...I too would feel sceptic if I would ve gone thru 14 yrs of losing... I guess like much of the young fans of the 70´s felt when Allen came on board after 25+ yrs of losing....and what he did??? trade trade trade for over the hill guys....but they were his guys... Character guys, winning guys.

Most of these Skins fans weren't even alive during the last superbowl season so who are they to judge Gibbs in any way, shape or form?

If you aren't at least 30 years old then you really don't know anything about the Redskins and especially Gibbs IMO.

that's a pretty bold statement. Maybe i've been fooling myself these last 21 years of being a skins fan because according to Skinz Domin8 i don't even know anyhthing about them!

I am confident Gibbs has a plan to bring a winner to DC.

Defense wins Chanpionships - Outstanding Defense last year, job well done. I remember when the Redskins (with Sonny as QB) would score 30 pts. and still not win.

This year I think Gibbs is really working on ST and with the addition of a couple key players the offense should be improved.

Let's all relax, sit back and enjoy the results.

I guess like much of the young fans of the 70´s felt when Allen came on board after 25+ yrs of losing....and what he did??? trade trade trade for over the hill guys....but they were his guys... Character guys, winning guys.

Skipping the age question, I remember the feeling that Jorge mentions about the Over the Hill Gang, or the "Ramskins", as they were also called.

We snarled and snapped. We had memories only of terrible teams around 1960, improving to no-defense teams in the mid-60's. Lombardi had made a start, but he was gone.

Recall that Old George traded all his first and second round picks for the next two years, and went back and traded off all the rest of his first rounders. We grumbled, although I thought maybe there was some strategy behind it. "The future is now", he said, and I admitted that the Skins had a great offense, but that Sonny was already about 36, and Charlie Taylor was nearing 30.

People made jokes about the old linebackers (except for Hanburger), and asked how anyone as old as Petibon could help a defensive backfield.

Then the '71 season started, and we saw the parts all fit together. The Ramskins, other "castoffs" like Ron McDole and Verlon Biggs, a team that had the three best defensive coaches between 1960 and 1990, two as players and one as head coach.

*

When they made the playoffs, as George promised in '71, I could hardly believe it. When I was little, the Queenstown Barshop had a line of pictures of NFL champion Redskins...Sammy Baugh and Cliff Battles and other people I had never seen.

They worse something like Redskin uniforms, except for the leather helmets, but they seemed to me like a team from a different universe. The world-beating champion Redskins? Could that be real?

*

I'm sure that some here feel the same about Gibbs. You have seen the NFL Films of the Redskins in SB's 17, 22, and 26, but those guys seem disconnected. The sports entertainment media hammers Gibbs with every sneer they can concoct. He's old, he can't "relate" to these players, the game has changed, all the rest.

I see something different. I see that Gibbs has not changed a bit of his approach, but, as always, he studies more than any other coach and constantly changes. That's not contradictory. He has always changed blocking schemes, refined plays, added and subtracted, as he needed to fit his players and his opposition. He approaches the players just the same, and looks for the same qualities inside his players: brains, hard work, discipline, playing tough under pressure. That is, playing to win, rather than playing to run up personal statistics.

*

Yes, it's too bad that Pierce left for the Giants. Smoot gave everything he had. Otherwise, it's good that the team showed some financial discipline and some faith in their own players to get better. Trading Coles is an improvement, and the team will improve again when Gardener is gone. Drafting Campbell seems like an intelligent move to protect the future, unless we expect the basic laws of being-in-the-world [that's for our philosphy major, who certainly does have a good understanding of these Redskins, age or not] to change such that quarterbacks are never injured.

*

Finally ("thanks", I hear you murmur): the decade that Joe Gibbs spent learning to win in NASCAR shows why he can win in the "new" NFL. He never stops learning, no matter what he is working at.

Yeah you guys the ones that last year were mad we didnt pick Winslow.... What Gibbs made a trade for Brunnell you say...well hell, he´s gonna makes mistakes...he´s human, but I wouldnt rule out Brunnell just yet.

Bravo, bravo!

Many fans here seem adicted to the recent past of signing big names. The skins as a team were once very similar to what the Patriots are now. Not a lot a big names but good team players with excellent game plans.

the redskins quads wrote:Guys, guys....it´s not only about faith...it´s about character...it´s about a winning tradition, it´s about a proven system.

I´ve notice that most of the negative post come from young skins fans...and trust me...I too would feel sceptic if I would ve gone thru 14 yrs of losing... I guess like much of the young fans of the 70´s felt when Allen came on board after 25+ yrs of losing....and what he did??? trade trade trade for over the hill guys....but they were his guys... Character guys, winning guys.

Well the same goes for Gibbs, what he let go of Smoot? well he was good yes, but he´s not worth what he got paid...and yes it hurt losing him...but he´s very replesable...I bet Walt Harris is better and Rogers when ready will be the man. Pierce you say...Hmmmmmmm he got paid a lot for 1 good year dont you think? and if we have depth in a position is LB´s he will not be missed.

Coles...well as much a I hate to lose a guy like Coles... he got Balls...he didnt wanted to be a redskins...he wanted go back to NYC...he complaint about no getting enough balls thrown his way???????? he was second in thrown passes to a receiver...he didnt wanted to deal with his toe...see ya bud... Santana Moss, I dont think he´s better than Coles, but he does fit the model of Gibbs receivers (Clark, Sanders, Garrett, Charlie Brown)...he and Patten were atop of the leaderboard in Yards per Catch.

Remember...Gibbs got a team modeled to Spurrier suck up ofense, just as in 81 he got a bad Pardee ofense. It takes time to adjust to his ofense and this time around he has to adjust to not being in the game for 13 yrs....so pleaseeeee..

What you expected a 11-5 record last season?? a playoff berth? me too, but realisticly it was very dificult.

All of you guys crying about us not picking Williams or who knows who??? let me ask you something... since when ARE YOU GUYS BETTER EVALUATORS OF TALENT than our coaching staff... Yeah you guys the ones that last year were mad we didnt pick Winslow.... What Gibbs made a trade for Brunnell you say...well hell, he´s gonna makes mistakes...he´s human, but I wouldnt rule out Brunnell just yet.

We were close last year...if we would have score 4 more points in all our games...our record would have been 10-6 and our defense only gave up more than 18 pts 3 times and in one of those games, the ofense have up a return for td....So yes I am very optimistic about our prospects next year...there will be continuity...one more yrs under the system...

U´ll see...Right now I wouldnt want another coach to be in front of our team...Those guys will play for Gibbs.

Jorge

I know that some of you think that I fall into the negeative category, and I was around to watch the George Allen Skins. I do tend to write when I don't agree with a post, so I guess most of my post are negative. I just try to think realistically and not from the heart when I post. But some times I just can't help calling out a rediculous statement. I will try too add positive comments too. Like "this was a good thread".

Damn, I didnt even know Jorge was a member of this board but what a damn good post!

some of you think

It seems to me that this site is about giving your opinion. Unvarnished opinion is good. Rah..Rah,,,Rah all the time is bad. There’s nothing wrong with being “realistic”. I actually find the most irritating things to be stuff like “So and so is released, we have to get him.” The irritating part is that the player while good or once good, doesn’t fit into our system or maybe doesn’t fit into our salary cap. I also find it annoying when people suggest that we trade someone with zero value whose cap hit would kill us. It’s not going happen. I also dislike it when someone leaves the team or turns our offer down and some people think they are bad guys.

The preseason is all about promise and opinions. The only thing I would consider negative posting is insisting that you are correct about a pick or a release or a non-signing over and over again when the jury is really out on all this stuff.

I just saw this thread called Trade Scenario

I was thinking and it might be stupid but i was thinkng that we should sign fredex and trade him and Gardner in one package we might be able to land a pretty good DE or something that we need.
What do you all think

Yes, that's a good example of the kind of stuff I think is a waste of time.

Yo man i in highschool too and im younger than jake. Heck i might be the youngest guy on this board. and i beleive im pretty knowlegable

the redskins quads wrote:Guys, guys....it´s not only about faith...it´s about character...it´s about a winning tradition, it´s about a proven system.

Bienvenido Jorge, tienes razón.

Ladies and gentlemen let us reflect on:

welch wrote:... The sports entertainment media hammers Gibbs with every sneer they can concoct. He's old, he can't "relate" to these players, the game has changed, all the rest.

I see something different. I see that Gibbs has not changed a bit of his approach, but, as always, he studies more than any other coach and constantly changes. That's not contradictory. He has always changed blocking schemes, refined plays, added and subtracted, as he needed to fit his players and his opposition. He approaches the players just the same, and looks for the same qualities inside his players: brains, hard work, discipline, playing tough under pressure. That is, playing to win, rather than playing to run up personal statistics.

In relation to the first paragraph, I wish to highlight that I do not recall in the history of my life as a fan a more anti-Redskin media establishment as we find today in many printed media, as well as radio and TV.

Do not get me started on Sports Illustrated. You know how strongly I feel against them. But I mean, even "our" local media the Washington Post appears to be competing with others to print something that is more damaging or critical of every move the team makes.

Sure, there is a long list of enemies and disgruntled reporters and writers that Dan Snyder has put together over the last few years. But that does not justify to take such venom against former and current players and coaches.

I for one feel that Joe Gibbs has adjusted to this "new" sad reality. That is why he and the team are moving to establish a closer contact with the fans and the public at large.

But in the end the media is powerful and influential. I personally do not think that a honeymoon with our team will occur until we win again. And I mean win a Superbowl, nothing short of that. The standards for success imposed on a Hall of Fame coach are so high that nothing less than a championship will suffice to satisfy all of our critics.

This is where the second paragraph in J. Welch's message fits in perfectly. Nothing has changed with Joe vis-avis his approach to preparation, creativity, character and hard work.

Forgive me if I quote John again but this is poetry to some of us:

That is, playing to win, rather than playing to run up personal statistics.

In today's environment of greedy players and greedier agents, irresponsible owners and unscroupolus advertisers, this may just be the biggest single obstacle to overcome by Joe.

With all of you, I not only agree, I am convinced that we shall overcome the adversity endured for over a decade.

Hail to the Redskins.

ToxicSkin wrote:

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:

I´ve notice that most of the negative post come from young skins fans...and trust me...I too would feel sceptic if I would ve gone thru 14 yrs of losing... I guess like much of the young fans of the 70´s felt when Allen came on board after 25+ yrs of losing....and what he did??? trade trade trade for over the hill guys....but they were his guys... Character guys, winning guys.

Most of these Skins fans weren't even alive during the last superbowl season so who are they to judge Gibbs in any way, shape or form?

If you aren't at least 30 years old then you really don't know anything about the Redskins and especially Gibbs IMO.

that's a pretty bold statement. Maybe i've been fooling myself these last 21 years of being a skins fan because according to Skinz Domin8 i don't even know anyhthing about them!

You guys can kiss my pork. Since when has the Redskin FO known what's its doing? You have faith in Gibbs. He's been out of the game for years. He threw last year away on Brunell, didn't suit up Dmac, failed to create a running or passing game, screwed up on the sidelines, failed to solve the Redskin penalty and morale problem. I hope he's still the brilliant learner he used to be. Maybe he isn't. The 2005 draft logic doesn't look so good. Jury's out on the guy, sad to say. Don't give me that crap about character guys. Give me the new Jim Brown or Barry Bonds in cleats. Faith is belief without reason or evidence. I don't have faith. Don't want to. I have hope.

crazyhorse1 wrote:

ToxicSkin wrote:

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:

I´ve notice that most of the negative post come from young skins fans...and trust me...I too would feel sceptic if I would ve gone thru 14 yrs of losing... I guess like much of the young fans of the 70´s felt when Allen came on board after 25+ yrs of losing....and what he did??? trade trade trade for over the hill guys....but they were his guys... Character guys, winning guys.

Most of these Skins fans weren't even alive during the last superbowl season so who are they to judge Gibbs in any way, shape or form?

If you aren't at least 30 years old then you really don't know anything about the Redskins and especially Gibbs IMO.

that's a pretty bold statement. Maybe i've been fooling myself these last 21 years of being a skins fan because according to Skinz Domin8 i don't even know anyhthing about them!

You guys can kiss my pork. Since when has the Redskin FO known what's its doing? You have faith in Gibbs. He's been out of the game for years. He threw last year away on Brunell, didn't suit up Dmac, failed to create a running or passing game, screwed up on the sidelines, failed to solve the Redskin penalty and morale problem. I hope he's still the brilliant learner he used to be. Maybe he isn't. The 2005 draft logic doesn't look so good. Jury's out on the guy, sad to say. Don't give me that crap about character guys. Give me the new Jim Brown or Barry Bonds in cleats. Faith is belief without reason or evidence. I don't have faith. Don't want to. I have hope.

I don't even know how to respond to this one......

crazyhorse1 wrote:I don't have faith. Don't want to. I have hope.

One out of three theological virtues is not a bad start but it will not get you far either.

Just one self-evident point:

If you have been unable to identify and appreciate the difference in morale and effort between the Spurrier and pre-Spurrier teams and the 2004 Washington Redskins, there is nothing to argue about.

You do not need to put Joe down. He does a pretty good job at self-critcism. He does not need help. The difference is that he is a -constructive- person and a student of the game and people.

Others may prefer the destructive, pessimistic and manic-deppressive approach. It is their right to do so of course. But in football, as it is true in life, it is healthier and a lot more fun toface challenges with determination and enthusiasm.

You speak about that "crap about vharacter". Fine.

Then there is almost nothing to talk about. Because for some of us character in sports and character in life is everything. Character is what differentiates legends from wannabes. Joe Gibbs is about character and the sooner his players and fans understand it, the sooner we will all get to sing the Skins song in the stadium or at home to celebrate a TD after another.

Some people who may have developped manic-depressive tendencies as a result of physical or social environmental reasons can be alerted to this situation to change their lives around. They seek treatment. Others carry their tendencies to the grave. It is a matter of personal choice.

crazyhorse1 wrote:You guys can kiss my pork. Since when has the Redskin FO known what's its doing? You have faith in Gibbs. He's been out of the game for years. He threw last year away on Brunell, didn't suit up Dmac, failed to create a running or passing game, screwed up on the sidelines, failed to solve the Redskin penalty and morale problem. I hope he's still the brilliant learner he used to be. Maybe he isn't. The 2005 draft logic doesn't look so good. Jury's out on the guy, sad to say. Don't give me that crap about character guys. Give me the new Jim Brown or Barry Bonds in cleats. Faith is belief without reason or evidence. I don't have faith. Don't want to. I have hope.

All your post have a "bitter" ring to them, they all state the same mis-steps and swipes at the front office. All your post when you are ranting that is, other times you actually make sense.
This was a rant, but there is nothing wrong with it except you stated that you don't have faith you have hope.

It is more like you lost faith but still have hope. Sounds like you lost faith in Gibbs half way through the 04 seaeson, too bad-- this would explain other's faith.
I have faith because I saw the difference in Ramsey after game 9 compared to what I saw in week 3. I saw Portis learn to be patient and wait for the holes to develope (when there were hiles to develope). I saw ey's potential to be the HB that Gibbs knows he will be. I could on and on but I won't. You should have paid attention after week 9 or HOPE that we pick up where we left off.

1niksder wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:You guys can kiss my pork. Since when has the Redskin FO known what's its doing? You have faith in Gibbs. He's been out of the game for years. He threw last year away on Brunell, didn't suit up Dmac, failed to create a running or passing game, screwed up on the sidelines, failed to solve the Redskin penalty and morale problem. I hope he's still the brilliant learner he used to be. Maybe he isn't. The 2005 draft logic doesn't look so good. Jury's out on the guy, sad to say. Don't give me that crap about character guys. Give me the new Jim Brown or Barry Bonds in cleats. Faith is belief without reason or evidence. I don't have faith. Don't want to. I have hope.

All your post have a "bitter" ring to them, they all state the same mis-steps and swipes at the front office. All your post when you are ranting that is, other times you actually make sense.
This was a rant, but there is nothing wrong with it except you stated that you don't have faith you have hope.

It is more like you lost faith but still have hope. Sounds like you lost faith in Gibbs half way through the 04 seaeson, too bad-- this would explain other's faith.
I have faith because I saw the difference in Ramsey after game 9 compared to what I saw in week 3. I saw Portis learn to be patient and wait for the holes to develope (when there were hiles to develope). I saw ey's potential to be the HB that Gibbs knows he will be. I could on and on but I won't. You should have paid attention after week 9 or HOPE that we pick up where we left off.

I get it now...this jackal Lazyhorse is really.....Len Bastardelly
Lenny..that you?

Gibbs isn't a proven evaluator of talent. I don't disagree with free agency, but his draft was stupid. We already had a Qb, that character crap is overrated. Jamal Lewis, Ray Lewis, Micheal Irvin, actually the whole Dallas Dynasty, The Ravens superbowl team, Jeremy Shockey, To, Randy, Warren Sapp, Sean Taylor, Lavar Arrington his 6.5 million suit and now, Aman Green, Steve Mcnair he was pulled over for a DWI, all the good players have character problems. This stuff Gibbs is preaching is dum and overrated get them a life coach, or physchiatris. You can force a player to act the way you want him to. Look what Larry Brown did to Rashad Wallace. Ty law and how about when the Pats traded for Corey Dillion. Ty Law said he didn't want to be with the Pats and they still kept him (last year). This year they realized they didn't need him and he got injured. Oh yeah I wanted Sean Taylor the whole time, I didn't know any Redskins fans that wanted Winslow before and after the draft.

cvillehog wrote:

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:If you aren't at least 30 years old then you really don't know anything about the Redskins and especially Gibbs IMO.

I take exception to that age limit, there, Redeemed...

EDIT:
Sorry SKINZ_DOMIN8, the text color threw me off and I called you someone elses name! My bad. (Emphasis added)

Sorry to interject in this fashion, but this was too funny. I was waiting to see who would slip up and think SKINZ_DOMIN8 was me.

As you might have noticed, he "jocked my style" by going with the orange text. Since that started happening, I've gone with the YELLOW text, so as not to be confused.

But, a word to the wise, be not confused by text color alone. Make sure the

REDEEMEDSKIN

seal of authenticity

is next to a message before responding to "me". Others will come along talking in similar colors. So look for the seal... in the yellow box.




Well, back on topic....

"What the heck is "negatism"???

Basically REDEEMED, I'd guess that it's anyone who does not agree with your signature!

Great post!

As for me I am very optimistic about the Skins this year. Although we had a losing season last year, this team showed that they will fight to the bitter end and that they could play tough against good teams. (i.e. Philly and Pittsburgh). Now that we have some continuity the offense will be able to gel and be productive and the defense should be a hard hitting and brutal as ever with Williams at the helm.

Why do crazyhorse and manfreda even visit this site?