The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Folks, it's really a lot simpler than everyone is making it out to be. Look, Ramseys contract runs out next year. Chances are, he won't have the BIG year that we want him to. If that's the case, he's still going to command the big bucks because he'll argue that he was never allowed to develop. He'll say that he was the product of Spurriers failed system, and there's going to be a lot of teams that can afford him even if he doesn't have a break out year with us. If he's not willing to sign at an affordable price, at least we have Campbell and NOT Brunell. Does that not make any sense to you Gibbs bashers?

Scenario #2: Ramsey DOES have the monster year that we think he can have. Then, we realize that he's worth the money he's going to be commanding and we reach an agreement with him. In both scenarios, we'll be able to fall back on and rely on Campbell and NOT Brunell. I gotta say, I like what I see in Campbell. Looking at the tape of him you can see why Gibbs likes him FOR THE FUTURE!! He's good in the pocket, yet he's also good at those controlled rollouts that Gibbs beleives faitfully in. Plus, he's got the big build and mobility of the modern day NFL quarterback combined with the technical skills that Gibbs covets. Plus, Musgrave is on board now as well. I'm sure he had some input into the situation as well. For the LAST time, my point is this: Gibbs and Co. know what they're doing. Playing the devils advocate: If he doesn't know what he's doing, then at least we went down with a legend at the helm, and went down with dignity, honesty, and honor.

WHY CAN'T ANYBODY ELSE SEE THE LOGIC IN THIS?!! I give up!! I need a valium!!

I think we understnd the logic of future plans, but not the three picks it cost us.

JP I hear and agree with your logic. I sure hope it ends up as scenario #2 and not #1.

Musgrave put his in for sure. The guy played a key role in Leftwich's development. Campbell's playing style is similar to Leftwich's, except he has one key thing that Byron doesn't; he's more mobile/athletic making him potential a better QB in the future.

Musgrave should also do wonders for Ramsey's career, hopefully pushing him towards your second senario.

Surely Ramsey's contract doesn't end next year? Have I lost all track of time, or hasn't he only been here for two years? You can't tell me that we signed a first round quarterback to a three year deal, or even four?

I vote for scenario #1 and we will be better for it by having Campbell

He'll say that he was the product of Spurriers failed system, and there's going to be a lot of teams that can afford him even if he doesn't have a break out year with us. If he's not willing to sign at an affordable price, at least we have Campbell and NOT Brunell. Does that not make any sense to you Gibbs bashers?

Ramsey is a free agent after this year and just about every report I've seen on Campbell says he is at least 2 years from being ready to start. So if Ramsey leaves after this season, having Campbell doesn't really help us out that much.

I want Ramsey to have that monster year, proving he has what it takes to start and lead an offense.

ejay183 wrote:I want Ramsey to have that monster year, proving he has what it takes to start and lead an offense.

Thank you very much. Let the man prove he is The Man. Walk the talk.

Hogfather wrote:JP I hear and agree with your logic. I sure hope it ends up as scenario #2 and not #1.

Musgrave put his in for sure. The guy played a key role in Leftwich's development. Campbell's playing style is similar to Leftwich's, except he has one key thing that Byron doesn't; he's more mobile/athletic making him potential a better QB in the future.

Musgrave should also do wonders for Ramsey's career, hopefully pushing him towards your second senario.

look at it this way though, ramsey is going in what, his 3rd, 4th year?...if he does do that 2nd scenario where he is a great QB, then we will sign him...which makes him the QB of the future, not campbell...essentially there isnt a huge amount of age difference, thats why i dont understand this pick completely...some risk and reward

JPFair wrote:Folks, it's really a lot simpler than everyone is making it out to be. Look, Ramseys contract runs out next year. Chances are, he won't have the BIG year that we want him to. If that's the case, he's still going to command the big bucks because he'll argue that he was never allowed to develop. He'll say that he was the product of Spurriers failed system, and there's going to be a lot of teams that can afford him even if he doesn't have a break out year with us. If he's not willing to sign at an affordable price, at least we have Campbell and NOT Brunell. Does that not make any sense to you Gibbs bashers?

Scenario #2: Ramsey DOES have the monster year that we think he can have. Then, we realize that he's worth the money he's going to be commanding and we reach an agreement with him. In both scenarios, we'll be able to fall back on and rely on Campbell and NOT Brunell. I gotta say, I like what I see in Campbell. Looking at the tape of him you can see why Gibbs likes him FOR THE FUTURE!! He's good in the pocket, yet he's also good at those controlled rollouts that Gibbs beleives faitfully in. Plus, he's got the big build and mobility of the modern day NFL quarterback combined with the technical skills that Gibbs covets. Plus, Musgrave is on board now as well. I'm sure he had some input into the situation as well. For the LAST time, my point is this: Gibbs and Co. know what they're doing. Playing the devils advocate: If he doesn't know what he's doing, then at least we went down with a legend at the helm, and went down with dignity, honesty, and honor.

WHY CAN'T ANYBODY ELSE SEE THE LOGIC IN THIS?!! I give up!! I need a valium!!

So JP your saying that we drafted based on the fact that we "might" lose Ramsey next year???

I just can't see why we did what we did in the draft...Going in, I felt our needs were at CB, WR and DE if your smart you take the best available when you pick.. I was amazed that Merriman and Williams were there when we picked. I can live with Rogers, good pick and he can play right away, but I feel Williams was the best player on the board at the time. If the reports were true that we tried to trade up for Edwards I'm surprised we didn't take Williams. That is why you saw the Lions take him when they didn't need a WR, they needed Merriman, but took the best available player.

Then to trade three picks for Campbell was just unbelievable to me...No, I don't think he would have been around in the 3rd round, I think Cleveland or Tampa would’ve taken him. Why not give Ramsey this year. If he flopped, he has very little leverage on the market, if he plays well we have a QB and we tag him, if he leaves we make a run at Leinhart next year.

By drafting Campbell I think Gibbs is admitting two things.

1. The Brunell signing was a mistake...He was supposed to play for two year while we groomed Patrick to take over.
2. He has no confidence in Ramsey as a NFL QB, but Gibbs says he the starter?? If that's the case… you don't give up three picks to draft a 3rd stringer. If he doesn't have any confidence in Ramsey then I understand the pick.

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DE, my point is simple. It's Ramsey or Bust this year. If he succeeds, we know he can succeed and we can possibly give him the big bucks. But, if he doesn't succeed, he's STILL going to be asking the big bucks. So, in theory, the possibility exists that at the end of this coming season that Ramsey might be gone. And, if he's gone, I'd rather have Campbell at least with a year under his belt ready to take over than have Brunell going for us. Gibbs has said that Campbells system at Auburn is similar to the one he will be using with the Redskins. Who better to take over after a year in spite of people saying he'll need two years than someone who has played in a system similar to Gibbs system.

I might add one point that I think we'll see a lot of with Ramsey, and one thing that we'll see with Campbell IF he ever starts for us. Controlled rollout!! Gibbs coveted it with Theismann and has tried it quite frequently with Brunell. But, did you notice he rarely used it with Ramsey? Campbell, from what I've seen of the tapes, rolls out a lot and fires on the run. I like what I see of him, but right now, I want Ramsey to step up to the plate and show Joe Gibbs and everyone else what he can do.


Our financial situation next year is precarious at best. No matter WHAT Ramsey does this year, we have to be prepared for the fact that he might leave. Gibbs is aware that players loyalty to a team is not what it used to be like, and we have to prepare from a financial standpoint and a logistical standpoint if he is gone. I mean, if he has a mediocre year and we go, say 9-7. There's a few teams that will pay the big bucks for Ramsey, and we might not be able to. I agree with you that selecting Ramsey is, in effect, admitting that Brunell was not so much a mistake, but that it didn't work out as planned. That being said, I'm glad Gibbs had the mental toughness and ability to put the team first, and effectively admit his own mistake. There's nothing we can do about the Brunell situation now, except that we accept it for what it is and be thankfull that Gibbs is preparing for if and when Ramsey departs or doesn't work out, that Brunell isn't the one to back him up in the long term. I fully agree with his pick.

If that's the case I can see why he made the moves.

2 questions for you JP.

Is Campbell worth 3 picks?
If Green Bay doesn't take Rogers would we have taken him over Campbell?

DE,

Is Campbell worth 3 picks?

We have no way of knowing yet. Time will tell. Gibbs is laying it all on the line this time, and as someone said, this pick will define his second era. Whether or not he was worht three picks depends on how it pans out over the next few years. We don't know what Gibbs has in mind about getting more draft picks back next year. Gibbs would be foolish to let anyone, especially the media and the fans, know what his real vision is for the future. So, is he worth three picks? Ask me again in two to three years and I'll have an answer for you.

If Green Bay doesn't take Rogers would we have taken him over Campbell?

I doubt it. I think Gibbs sees something in Campbell that he likes. My own opinion, for whatever it's worth, is his ability to roll out of the pocket as well as his height. I think back to how many times we'd see Theismann take three steps back and then immediately roll out and hit a tight end over the middle or something other than simply stepping back in the pocket. Ramsey doesn't really do that, and I think Gibbs wants that. But, in the meantime, he's going to try and work around Ramseys inability to roll out of the pocket or perhaps try and get Musgrave to see if they can coach him to do it. If they can, then Ramsey could have a much brighter future than even we think. I think we, as fans, simply want impact players. But Gibbs has to look at not just the impact that a player can make, but so many other issues as well. Financial issues, injury issues, contracts, free agency, etc.. But no, I don't think they would have taken Rogers. As I said, I think Gibbs sees something in Campbell that he likes. What that is, we are not privvy to at this time. But, suffice it to say that he sees something. Just my opinion.

And, if he's gone, I'd rather have Campbell at least with a year under his belt ready to take over than have Brunell going for us. Gibbs has said that Campbells system at Auburn is similar to the one he will be using with the Redskins. Who better to take over after a year in spite of people saying he'll need two years than someone who has played in a system similar to Gibbs system.

Campbell is a "project" qb by most people's estimation. If we lose Ramsey next year Campbell probably wont be ready to step in yet so how does this move help is if Ramsey leaves?

teh problem with picking Campbell though is that he is the most overrated QB in all of football. He had decent receivers, a great offensive line, one of the best defences in the country and two of the best running backs in the country. Nobody really know how good he is because nobody's seen him on a real team that has flaws and struggles. Nobody seems to remember that he had one good year at Auburn. ONE. He was not worth a first round pick at all.

He had decent receivers, a great offensive line, one of the best defences in the country and two of the best running backs in the country. Nobody really know how good he is because nobody's seen him on a real team that has flaws and struggles

The very same thing could be set about Patrick Ramsey in the Pros.

TopHawg wrote:teh problem with picking Campbell though is that he is the most overrated QB in all of football. He had decent receivers, a great offensive line, one of the best defences in the country and two of the best running backs in the country. Nobody really know how good he is because nobody's seen him on a real team that has flaws and struggles. Nobody seems to remember that he had one good year at Auburn. ONE. He was not worth a first round pick at all.

Sounds like the REDSKINS!

TopHawg wrote:teh problem with picking Campbell though is that he is the most overrated QB in all of football. He had decent receivers, a great offensive line, one of the best defences in the country and two of the best running backs in the country. Nobody really know how good he is because nobody's seen him on a real team that has flaws and struggles. Nobody seems to remember that he had one good year at Auburn. ONE. He was not worth a first round pick at all.

Couldn't it be the RB's were so great because they had a great O-Line, Decent Receivers, A Great QB, and Great Defense.... or the O-Line was so great because they had a great QB, Great RB's, Decent Recievers, and a Great Defense? or even the Recievers were soooooo decent, because they had a great O-line, Great RB, Great QB, and Great Defense....all this and they went undefeated...

Hey... we got a Great RB, a decent O-line, decent Recievers, and a great Defense.... I'll take a 12-4 season...