The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Before I say why, here are two things:

1. Chris ey is a hell of a player and I am glad we have him.

2. We won't end up with H. Miller unless someone is thinking like me, which is usually rare...

We ranked near the bottom on offense last year. We scored most of our touchdowns not with receivers, but with our backs and TEs.

A QB's best friend is his tight end... er, no pun intended... But a great TE can get any QB out of a bad situation or a busted play.

The Skins would love to have Braylon Edwards or Mike Williams, but the reality is they will be gone by pick #9. So who has the best hands in the draft with some size? Mr. Miller.

Gibbs also likes to have the two TE set, so this could be a dreamwork of offensive utility with the smaller Halfback in ey and larger more physical Miller as true TE.

With this new addition, the secondary would play up, leaving more possibilities for the BIG PLAY for the rest of our mediocre receivers. When the safety comes up to take on Miller and/or ey, someone out of our speedy core will break free for the long one. Ramsey can get it there too.

For all of those that say we need a WR or CB - just look how many get drafted early and bust.

5 TEs were picked as high as #20 in recent years. 3 have become pro bowlers - Bubba Franks, Jeremy Shockey, and Tony Gonzalez. Winslow could be there in the near future so long as he avoids injuries.

CB just isn't that important with the new rules. I will miss Smoot, the NFL rules are all about Offense.

I think we need another weapon, and at #9, Miller will be the best value player out there on the board. The rest of our WRs have the speed, let's add some size and good hands to the mix.

That's all... I know it is unlikely, but it would help put the Skins in the top half of offenses for next year, which would more than outweigh the loss of one MLB and one CB. They are replacable!

GO SKINS!

Someone was watching ESPN today around 3... seems like you said the exact same things they did. I agree that Miller would be an amazing pick, but I don't agree about us not needing a CB. That is a bigger needs, although Miller may very well be the best player in the draft at his position (dont quote me on that, just a hunch)

I agree. Heath would be a perfect fit. He seems to be a Gibbs type of player. I've said this myself in previous posts. The only reason Heath isn't projected in the top half of the first round is his hernia surgery recently. It was supposedly nothing to be concerned about, but it happened at the worst possible time for Heath's draft evaluation. However, unless we trade down, which is a possibility, then drafting Heath at #9 isn't likely. If one of the RB's falls to #9 then we might get some trade interest from other teams. The fact that Gibbs is scouring lists of college basketball players for another hopeful Antonio Gates means Gibbs would like another threat to work with ey at H-back and TE.

Our offense wasn't missing the 6 yard dump off pass last year. We were missing the 20+ yard pass plays. Heath Miller isn't going to provide those.

I can see the argument for a big time WR, but not for a TE.

On the other hand, the new emphasis on downfield contact means a cover corner is more important, not less important. Being able to manhandle receivers allowed second rate corners to survive in this league. Now, when you legitimately have to cover the guy with your speed, athletic ability and instincts, it's harder than ever to find good corners. I'd still like to see the Skins go corner or DE in this draft.

Skeletor wrote:Our offense wasn't missing the 6 yard dump off pass last year. We were missing the 20+ yard pass plays. Heath Miller isn't going to provide those.

I can see the argument for a big time WR, but not for a TE.

On the other hand, the new emphasis on downfield contact means a cover corner is more important, not less important. Being able to manhandle receivers allowed second rate corners to survive in this league. Now, when you legitimately have to cover the guy with your speed, athletic ability and instincts, it's harder than ever to find good corners. I'd still like to see the Skins go corner or DE in this draft.

I think you misunderstand the idea behind the chuck rule enforcement. It takes away a large part of man-on-man technique. The demand to find a larger athletic CB (like Champ Bailey) who can go toe to toe at the LOS, then turn a run stride for stride is greatly reduced. Now defenses will spend much more of their time in zone coverage where its a team read and react concept (like the Patriots executed so well in the Super Bowl with a bunch of no name CB's). Individual talent is not at such a premium in the zone. No one is saying CB's are not important but they will no longer be the most coveted individual players along with QB's and DE's. Basically, the rules have made it unrealistic for any one CB to be able to cover a decent WR in straight man to man coverage.


As for the 6 yard dump play, I guess maybe you didn't watch Brees and Gates tear up the league last year down the field, across the middle and yes, occasionally with the 6 yard dump play. If you know much about Gibbs then you know how he has alway used multiple TE/H-back sets, lots of motion and a balanced run/pass attack. The beauty of TE's and H-backs is they can be extra blockers or they can be receivers. You can move them both to the strong side and run behind them or use them to decoy LB's to the opposite side. Nothing pisses a LB or safety off more than getting burned by a TE who catches a pass after they bite on play action. Then get pancaked by the same TE on the next play because they're back on their heels for pass coverage. This type of mental approach is part of what made Gibbs famous and its not nearly as effective with just one dual threat H-back or TE. Last year we had a passing game non-factor like Rasby on many plays. When you have two, all sorts of motion options and mis-matches become possible. To love Gibbs as a coach, you have to love TE's and how they can be utilized.

I hear what your saying FanofallthatisGibbs... It would really make our offense better. Now i think that we dont need to draft Mike Williams and we dont need to Draft Antrel Rolle. We alrady have a great secondary. And as they all say "Defense wins championships". Therefore we need to get Erasmas James who is a pass rushing specialist. Therefore the QB will not have time to get a propper pass going... And then we dont need a #9 pick to be a CB.

I agree about needing to draft on offense...but I would liek to go with the wr position

I have to agree with Fleetus, although I am in favor of a DE(Pollack and a 2nd) his argument certainly holds water. My hat off to you sir

Skeletor wrote:On the other hand, the new emphasis on downfield contact means a cover corner is more important, not less important. Being able to manhandle receivers allowed second rate corners to survive in this league. Now, when you legitimately have to cover the guy with your speed, athletic ability and instincts, it's harder than ever to find good corners. I'd still like to see the Skins go corner or DE in this draft.

Bingo! Perhaps some teams will use more of a zone defense, but as Defensive Coordinators get used to the new rules the CB will once again rise in prominence. You will always need cover guys. Now more than ever you need faster, more agile corners who can stay in the guys hip pocket. You want guys who can recover from mistakes and leap tall buildings.

Some DC's will use a zone defense but that will be to make up for there current rosters lack of speed. Instead of simply using a zone defense a lot of DC's spent more time in Nickel and Dime defenses. The reason why we have to get another CB is because we only have four on the roster. If one of them goes down then we can no longer put a dime package on the field.....this is exactly why we lost the second Dallas game. Now we could have some of our Safeties on the field in Dime situations, but I'd rather have a true CB.

Chad

P.S. I don't disagree with your reasons for wanting Heath Miller, but I think he is too much of a reach at 9. How are his blocking skills?

P.S.S. CB are usually some of the safer picks in the top round. TE's, like centers, fullbacks, safeties, and guards are rarely chosen in the first round so when one rises that far it is because they are usually a physical freak!

We need a #1 WR and a starting CB before we start thinking about TE.

I believe ey and Royal are good enough for the team. Don't think we need to upgrade our H=back or our TE. Both of them have great hands and run good routes.

There's been some great points made on both sides, thanks for the great football talk.

I think CB are safe high because they are such great athletes and if all else fails, they can be special teams or a variety of other positions to fill roster needs. High CB picks often bust though. I would rather us transform one of our stud safeties, someone maybe like Clark, to a CB for this year.

WR needs - yes, we do need a #1 WR. We ain't gonna get one. Williams and Edwards are the only two who I think have close to the kind of mold we need.

DE - I would love to see a great DE picked up too. Tough to say who is the best this year, lots of depth at that position in this draft.

Trade down, yes if we are lucky, but I think trading up for a WR is a more likely scenario in this draft.

Rasby hasn't proven anything to me. I would still like to see someone like Miller alongside ey to do exactly what Fleetus so eloquently wrote.

By the way, Miller's blocking skills are above average, but they are not his greatest asset. Still, the best of any TE in this draft I believe. Maybe not as good yet as what famous TEs in Gibbs' systems were known for, but he can be taught as he has all the basic fundamentals.

trading up is not going to happen! We have too many needs to fill and not enough cap room to do it. If we were to say trade up to Number 4 to get Mike Williams then we couldn't afford to pay him!

While I do think that Heath Miller will be a good NFL player, and I wouldn't mind having him, I think we need a big fat strong TE that can act like another Tackle on the O-Line. But we can pick one of those guys up on the second day.

Chad

ok now I am a complete supporter of drafting heath miller...when b4 i wasnt....because now he would be ideal at 25, imagine him and cooley and patten and moss....our offense would be much improved and Ramsey would have good targets

can miller run a 4.5 40?

Steelers may try something tricky. They really have their eye on him, but at #25 he would be AWESOME... PLEASE let these other teams address their other needs!

WshSkins22 wrote:ok now I am a complete supporter of drafting heath miller...when b4 i wasnt....because now he would be ideal at 25, imagine him and cooley and patten and moss....our offense would be much improved and Ramsey would have good targets

Same here.

Now we can get one of the top 3 CB at #9 and still get Miller at #25.

This trade might come out better than I first thought...

Looking over the trade, Miller seems like a pretty good possibility. We need quiet role-players who are going to build a solid foundation for this team. Miller seems like our type, if you ask me (I won't use the 'C' word).

Miller at 25 along with Jones or Rolle would be a good looking first round. Good matchup problems with ey and Miller needing to be covered.

Here's what is going to happen. Mark these words:)

Trade the #9 to either Bengals or Saints for their #16 or 17 respectively, plus a second or third rounder.

I heard an interview with Pac man Jones that he and Marvin Lewis really hit it off and that he would love to play there.

We draft Carlos Rogers with the #16 pick (which is REALLY why Gibbs was at Auburn, not for Campbell)

then we draft Heath Miller with the #25 who has the best Hands in the draft and would give Gibbs more flexibility on offense than another WR would.

That's my two cent prediction (until next hour when they trade both of their 1st rounders for a punter a free S.I subscription)

I think we got it the first time fleetus in the "TRADE!!!" thread...

I would love for the Skins to pick up Miller. I've had plenty of opportunities to watch this guy play and he is definitely a stud. With ey at H-back and Miller lined up at TE we should not have any problems scoring in redzone and goal line situations.

That would be awesome if we could trade down with the Bengals and pick up Carlos Rodgers. I agree 100% with Fleetus.

DE?? Still not sure how we are going to deal with this need. I do think that we'll have a lot of corner and safety blitzes to maximze pressure on the QB. Can our secondary handle it though?

This would be great If we picked up carlos with the 9 and then miller with 25th...or williamson with 9th and a pass rusher with 25th

From ESPN today:

Apr. 20 - Rogers came out the big winner during all the maneuvering of Tuesday. His value is clearly in the top 10, and he has a good chance of going to Washington at No. 9, if not higher, according to John Clayton. Rogers has always been among the top-three corners, but the Redskins now have him rated ahead of Antrel Rolle of Miami and West Virginia's Adam Jones. The biggest fear for the Redskins, is that Arizona, picking one spot ahead of them, could grab Rogers. He's also a possibility at No. 6 to Tennessee.

Looks like it might be Pac Man that slips down to the middle of the 1st. Still at #9 we have a shot at Mike Williams, Rolle and Rogers. The fact that those three players are coveted by other teams means possible trade down scenarios.