The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Every one already knows hes a beast, but after reading this article it makes me begin to salivate over getting him. He wants to be the best reciever in the game of football, not the highest paid. He has no character issues and has an attitude Joe Gibbs is sure to love... He could be better than Monk. YES I SAID HE CAN POTENTIALLY BE BETTER THAN MY MAN ART MONK. I'm thinking that Tampa Bay, despite what everyone thinks will draft Cadillac Williams and that Tennessee will get either Rolle/PacMan or Alex Barron. That leaves Minnesota who is sure to love Mike Williams, but also have some interest in Gardner. How bout we trade Gardner, pick 9 for pick 7? I think it could work, and if not we can throw in a future 3rd round pick or something. The bottom line is that we MUST get this guy...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=mikewilliamsimgoingtobea&prov=tsn&type=lgns

What happens if we do that but MWilliams gets taken already? Then what do we do?

Or is it possible to do the thing like how the Chargers traded with the Giants DURING the draft?

As you can see...I don't know too much about the draft.

I dont think we should trade up and I certainly disagree with giving away a former first rounder for two spots. There will be plenty of talented guys at nine.

It's a great idea, if the Vikings would agree to it. Unfortunately, that's a big "if." I suspect that the Skins and Vikings would have preliminary discussions about it, and the trade would be made official once the Titans made their selection, if Mike Williams were still available. For that matter, why not offer up Gardner and #9 to any team ahead of us willing to swap first round picks, plus a fourth round pick in return?

I really like that idea, But it wont happen.

I agree they need to get Mike Williams at all costs.

Vinny Cerrato already said trading up is NOT an option.

Jake wrote:Vinny Cerrato already said trading up is NOT an option.

Not that I'm saying it will happen, but Vinny could be putting up a smoke screen.

Don't like it. Taking a WR that high is a hugre crap shoot. And most people usually end up regretting it. Name the last WR that was takeb in the top 10 and turned up a big time player and then name another. I bet you can't do it.
I would rather trade down and take a CB lower (fabian Washington) and draft Matt Jones. Fill two holes and get a muchmore explosive player than Williams.

Roy Williams (2004) and Andre Johnson (2003). maybe you've heard of them. Maybe not.

Did we get a second round pick?... because if we're talking about trading up... we must have gotten a second round pick...

John Manfreda wrote:I agree they need to get Mike Williams at all costs.

See! Now this is a problem. You want this guy at all costs? Should we just give up next year if we don't get him? Are you willing to trade Lavar or Portis for him?

No one person is worth more than the whole team. I just don't believe that anyone is an "at all costs" person.

I'm not trying to bust your chops but this is the kind of thinking that gets franchises into trouble.

Chad

Williams will be there for us to pick up. I'd definately love to get him. I really want a DE but Im not sold on any of the guys available being worthy of such a high pick. Outr coaches will make a great choice, Im not worried at all.

I agree. Who ever we pick up with the number 9 selection will be a good pick and not too expensive. Rolle, Jones, Merriman, Williams, whatever.....I trust our coaches to make the right decision.

However if they go out and do something like trade up to get Alex Smith....then all bets are off! That won't happen though.....

chaddukes wrote:

John Manfreda wrote:I agree they need to get Mike Williams at all costs.

See! Now this is a problem. You want this guy at all costs? Should we just give up next year if we don't get him? Are you willing to trade Lavar or Portis for him?

No one person is worth more than the whole team. I just don't believe that anyone is an "at all costs" person.

I'm not trying to bust your chops but this is the kind of thinking that gets franchises into trouble.

Chad

Besides Taylor, Washington, and Ramsey I would trade any Redskin for him straight up if the cap would allow me to do it. So yes I would trade Portis for him because I don't think Portis is that good. He is a B player because he doesn't have any power and for him to be affective he needs to be in a pass first offense like he was in Denver. Lavar yes because he is undisciplined.

Mike Williams may not be that "Character Guy" Gibbs is looking for. ( A little long ),but if you are a Williams fan this is worth the read. Sounds like he may have a little character issue, but a lot of the good ones do.


COMMENTARY
By Michael Ventre
NBCSports.com contributor
Updated: 9:50 p.m. ET March 29, 2005


Mike Williams could be the next Randy Moss. That means he might become one of the NFL’s most productive and game-breaking receivers. It also means he could become a real pain in the behind.

Scouts are extremely high on Williams these days, as they should be. Before he formed a misguided alliance with Maurice Clarett in a foolhardy attempt to jump to the pros early, Williams had been a dominant wideout. He was big, strong, tough, physical, fast and reliable. After suffering a case of the dropsies early in his freshman year, he went on to post two spectacular seasons with the Trojans.

Now after the combine and private workouts, Williams is neck-and-neck with Braylon Edwards of Michigan atop the list of receivers available for next month’s draft.

Williams is one of those rare receivers who needs a quarterback only to toss a pigskin in his general area, and he’ll use his athletic ability to gobble it in, usually with a couple of defenders draped over him. He can often make the difference between a successful drive and a stalled one because of his tenacity and confidence.

That’s the good news.

The bad? The young man has a touch of attitude. As we have seen before, when large sums of money and the spotlight of intense fame hit a kid like that, he can turn from incredible to insufferable — sometimes during the same game.

As a Trojan under coach Pete Carroll, Williams was often the truant who was a regular in detention. More than once he did punishment drills for being late to practice. He had a blowup on the sideline during a game after he criticized the team’s kicker for having a bad day.

After his sophomore season, he gave an interview to the Daily Trojan that ripped some teammates for not being winners. Needless to say, it didn’t sit well with fans and alumni, not to mention coaches and players. Offensive coordinator Norm Chow alluded to Williams’ work habits, which he suggested needed work.

Then there was the ill-fated attempt to jump to the NFL. Carroll and others strongly advised him not to sign with an agent and to keep attending classes in order to preserve his eligibility in case the courts eventually ruled against he and Clarett. Williams stubbornly ignored that advice, and his eventual request for reinstatement was denied.


After that episode, he groused publicly about the USC coaches, saying that they were only too eager to keep in touch with him while he still had a chance to play for the Trojans, but they stopped calling as soon as it was clear he wouldn’t. Whether that is true or not, it begs the question: Why would they keep calling if Williams continually dismissed their advice?

This is not to suggest that Williams is a bad guy. He could have just been an immature guy, someone who became intoxicated by his collegiate success and began to think he was above the team. He had a lot of positives as well, not the least of which was a habit of praising quarterback Matt Leinart for doing an exceptional job of getting him the football.

And there is little to criticize in terms of his performances in games. He destroyed opposing secondaries. He made one-handed grabs. He made clutch catches. He has a brawy frame and he would often gain extra yardage after the catch because of it. He may not have burner speed, but he has enough quickness to get himself open, and he’s fleet enough to break away from most defensive backs, even in the NFL.

But Moss had many of these same attributes. It was his sullenness that wore out folks in Minnesota. It was said that he took plays off and that he bristled when asked to work harder. That created scrutiny, to which he responded poorly. Eventually he bought himself a ticket to Oakland.

Michigan’s Edwards, though, has endured some of the same complaints, especially earlier in his career. He was not always a favorite of his coaches, but in games he excelled and his phenomenal ability overshadowed any rumblings of an attitude problem.

He could be a Pro Bowler. So could Williams.

Or each could devolve into an egomaniacal nightmare.

With Williams, much will depend on where he goes. If he is taken by a team that has enough veteran talent to keep him in line, he probably won’t be a problem. If he is selected by a dreadful franchise that promises a heap of losing — the 49ers, Browns or Bears come to mind — he might be a negative influence, or possibly not as much of a positive influence as he should. And if he lands on a team with a quarterback who doesn’t get him the ball enough, you may see a replay of Terrell Owens-Jeff Garcia.

Some young players grow up quickly when thrown into the NFL cauldron. Let’s hope this happens with Williams. It’s always more fun to see a player reach his potential. If Williams does, he will amaze football fans for years. At his best Williams can do for a team what Owens did for the Eagles last season.

But there are no guarantees in this pricey game. Because of the stakes involved, team executives go to absurd lengths sometimes to gauge a player’s mental toughness and character, but those are areas that are constantly evolving. Sometimes only when the variables of money, fame and expectations are introduced to the equation do we find out who’s who.

With Mike Williams, that time is only a few draft picks away.

I forgot to include in the article above, but here are some combine/workout notes.

Positives: Tall, long-limbed with a well-developed, muscular frame, good bubble, tight waist and thick thighs and calves ... Well-liked, mature player with a team-first attitude, but will not hesitate to ask for the ball in crucial situations ... Shows a quick thrust off the line to challenge defensive backs and keep pressure on the secondary ... Smooth and efficient in his release, using his long arms and strength to quickly defeat the press, driving hard with his legs to beat the jam ... Runs tight upfield routes and does a nice job of using swim moves and a stutter-step to shake off the cornerbacks working in the short area ... Has outstanding field vision, doing a great job of finding the sideline and adjusting his body to keep his feet in bounds ... Gets good depth through his routes and quickly recognizes the coverage working in the zone ... Has good hip-sink agility that allows him to get good quickness coming out of his breaks ... His vertical speed and size poses matchup problems for the smaller defensive backs ... Can uncover and position his big body and use his long arms to make the plays on underneath routes ... Knows how to set up the cornerback with his head fakes and change-of-direction agility on short routes ... Outstanding hands-catcher who uses his height advantage and long arms to fight for the ball in traffic ... Has the stride needed to get to the long ball in a hurry, showing a smooth burst and crisp body adjustments combined with top-end speed to get deep ... Able to run, adjust and jump for the ball in a crowd (especially effective adjusting to the ball over his shoulder, but also excels at the high, low and behind tosses) ... Has some wiggle and good strength to drive through arm tackles, finding the crease with his stop-and-go action to take the ball to the house.
Negatives: Despite his size and strength, he does not show aggression when asked to block (will position and get in the way, but will not stalk) ... Strong runner, but sometimes takes time to get back to speed after the catch ... More of a soft-angle cutter in the short area.

AGILITY TESTS
4.62 in the 40-yard dash ... 345-pound bench press ... 35½-inch vertical jump ... 33-inch arm length ... 9 7/8-inch hands.

John Manfreda wrote:Besides Taylor, Washington, and Ramsey I would trade any Redskin for him straight up if the cap would allow me to do it. So yes I would trade Portis for him because I don't think Portis is that good. He is a B player because he doesn't have any power and for him to be affective he needs to be in a pass first offense like he was in Denver. Lavar yes because he is undisciplined.

You've become too enamored with his scouting sheet. The guy only played two years in college and you are ready to declare him better than Portis who has averaged over 1400 yards per season in the NFL!

I'm not saying that Mike Williams isn't going to be good, but to risk your franchise on him is incredibly short sighted. How many guys come out like this every year? Every year there are a couple of guys that are seen as just sure fire can't miss guys. But every year only a few pan out.

Saying that the Skins must get any one guy at all costs is showing how little faith you have in our team and coaching staff. Look at what our star laden offense was able to do last year. How many of those guys on that offense are guys that were must have at all cost guys? On the converse, look at what our crippled Defense was able to do, minus Champ and Lavar.

I just dont understand how you can say that any one player is a have at all costs guy. So, do we give up and concede the season next year if we dont get him?

Chad

chaddukes wrote:

John Manfreda wrote:Besides Taylor, Washington, and Ramsey I would trade any Redskin for him straight up if the cap would allow me to do it. So yes I would trade Portis for him because I don't think Portis is that good. He is a B player because he doesn't have any power and for him to be affective he needs to be in a pass first offense like he was in Denver. Lavar yes because he is undisciplined.

You've become too enamored with his scouting sheet. The guy only played two years in college and you are ready to declare him better than Portis who has averaged over 1400 yards per season in the NFL!

I'm not saying that Mike Williams isn't going to be good, but to risk your franchise on him is incredibly short sighted. How many guys come out like this every year? Every year there are a couple of guys that are seen as just sure fire can't miss guys. But every year only a few pan out.

Saying that the Skins must get any one guy at all costs is showing how little faith you have in our team and coaching staff. Look at what our star laden offense was able to do last year. How many of those guys on that offense are guys that were must have at all cost guys? On the converse, look at what our crippled Defense was able to do, minus Champ and Lavar.

I just dont understand how you can say that any one player is a have at all costs guy. So, do we give up and concede the season next year if we dont get him?

Chad

Yeah your right I do have little faith, they haven't proved jack to me. 3 superbowls but look at Paterno he is one of the greatest college coaches and the game just passed him and everyone says he needs to go. I don't know if it has happened to Gibbs but it is possible. Look at last year, Raymer, Rasby, Brunell, we wasted a lot of money on players that aren't worth a dam. He was so stubborn about having a veteran Qb and when everyone knows you win championships with young hungry players that have something to prove. I don't care about NFL numbers that much, you know they can be minipulated or padded. Portis was playing in a pass first offense behind a sick offensive line that anyone could get yds. under. He averaged 3.8 yds. a carry this year. Every player coming into the NFL is unproven so what you say about Williams being unproven is BS. People that say that can't logically say why the move is bad and so they hide behind he is unproven. We don't need to concede this year if we don't get him, but our team would be a lot better if we do get him. If we don't get Mike Williams I think they should draft Heath Miller or trade down and draft him if he is not going to be picked 10-14 pick.

THE NEWS

The Dolphins would like to trade down out of the second overall position in the upcoming draft, instead making multiple later picks. Two NFC personnel sources told the Miami Herald the Dolphins are inviting trade offers for their first-round pick, and recent statements by the Dolphins' front office seem to confirm that possibility. Miami coach Nick Saban told the Herald the team has a chart indicating what type of compensation the team is willing to accept to move down the draft board, and the club intends to stick to that chart.


OUR VIEW

Miami traded this year's second-round selection to the Eagles last year for quarterback A.J. Feeley, and Saban has acknowledged that the team has more holes than can be filled with one pick in the first 69 selections. However, given the lack of premium talent in this year's draft it's tough to find anyone interested in trading up to get the Dolphins' pick.

http://www.fanball.com/fb/index.cfm
This will probably make yall a little happy!!

I agree with Chaddukes. No way would I trade Portis straight up for M. Williams.

I say we stay puy at no.9 or trade DOWN. We´ve got plenty of holes and trading for Williams is a crap shot (what draft pick isn´t?).

WR, DE, CB, those are three vital postions for any team and we have to adress them properly.

Why not offer our #9 pick and Moss as a trade up? Seeing as he cant be bothered to turn up for the workouts.

Manchester_Redskin wrote:Why not offer our #9 pick and Moss as a trade up? Seeing as he cant be bothered to turn up for the workouts.

Because there isn't anyone in the top ten worth trading up for! Its scary when the top WR coming out (B. Edwards) scout sheet looks just like Rod Gardner's when he came out. All D-linemen are gambles in the first round. Antre Rolle and Pacman Jones are good players, but not worth moving up for.

What we need are more draft picks. The draft is like playing roulette. The more chances you have the more likely you are to get something good. So if we are going to do any trading it should be for more picks. Getting rid of Moss to move up a few spots is a waste of both Moss and Lav Coles, and the $9 million dollar cap hit.

The idea that Moss is already showing his colors ticks me off too, but I'm not willing to give him up for nothing.

Chad

death to the cowboys