The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I had no idea that this entire steriods probe came from his stupid book. I think like a murderer or a theif he should not be able to profit one penny from that book if he admits he commited an illegal act. That is why the book would sell. And he should not profit from it.

NikiH wrote:I had no idea that this entire steriods probe came from his stupid book. I think like a murderer or a theif he should not be able to profit one penny from that book if he admits he commited an illegal act. That is why the book would sell. And he should not profit from it.

Thats a good point.

Not sure it should be a law, but people should just not buy his book.

Hi, Niki,

I think there's more to it than just Canseco.

- a Bay Area "medical" lab called Balco has been under investigation for providing steroids to players, including Jason Giambi and Barry Bonds. They were among several players called before a grand jury to give evidence. Giambi won't say much. Bonds claims ignorance -- his personal trainer admits giving Bonds steroids, but Bonds says "I just thought it was a health drink", or words to that effect. The Balco case looks convincing. I don't which other players were implicated: MLB and the investigators have tried to shield them.

- the "smells fishy" alarm went off when these guys all started to break the Ruth/Maris record. The Maris record stood from 1961, with hardly anyone getting near it. Canseco and McGwire and others would hit 40 - 50 home runs a year, but not much more. Then, all at once, Mark M. hits 70. Not just 62 or 63, but 70! And Sosa hits 66. Peculiar. Jim Rice was a great hitter, but never hit 55 homers. Our own Frank Howard would lead the league hitting 40 - 48 (against tougher pitching). Then Bonds, who was not basically a power guy -- that was Bobby Bonilla when they were young and playing for the Pirates -- hits 72.

I assume that Canseco is riding this for all it's worth, since he has nothing else, but it looks very much like some famous baseball players have been using steroids.

(No, I won't buy his book, and I don't expect that it tells a complete, honest story.)

So should Bonds if found to have used performance enhancing drugs be able to keep his HR count and close in and potentially pass Hank A?

I for one have a real problem there.

So should Bonds if found to have used performance enhancing drugs be able to keep his HR count and close in and potentially pass Hank A?

I say "no", and loudly.

Same with the single season record. And I would wipe out the Mark & Sammy records if they were using steroids.

The punishment should be similar to what happens in the Olympics, or in horse racing: use a performance-enhancing substance, and you get disqualified.

NC43Hog wrote:So should Bonds if found to have used performance enhancing drugs be able to keep his HR count and close in and potentially pass Hank A?

I for one have a real problem there.

Same here, its C-H-E-A-T-I-N-G

Its like, if i cheat on my Math test and get an A+, but i get caught, do i get to keep the A?

No, I get an F and so should Barry Bonds and all those stupid steriod users.

welch wrote:I say "no", and loudly.

Same with the single season record. And I would wipe out the Mark & Sammy records if they were using steroids.

The punishment should be similar to what happens in the Olympics, or in horse racing: use a performance-enhancing substance, and you get disqualified.

We think alike - cheating is cheating.

I'm confused? Are we mad at Canseco for blowing the whistle? Would we rather players be openly juiceing?

Canseco is sleazy, no doubt... but a lot of reform is coming to pass and it's sparked in large part by his book... however dispicable he is, he's providing a service and I think SOME good is coming from this.

baseball makes me mad. bout as useless as soccer.

hailskins666 wrote:baseball makes me mad. bout as useless as soccer.

Nothing is as useless as soccer.

NC43Hog wrote:

hailskins666 wrote:baseball makes me mad. bout as useless as soccer.

Nothing is as useless as soccer.

Soccer is so much better than baseball, it's not even funny.

cvillehog wrote:Soccer is so much better than baseball, it's not even funny.

so much better when it's over..

NC43Hog wrote:

hailskins666 wrote:baseball makes me mad. bout as useless as soccer.

Nothing is as useless as soccer.

sorry all my Canadian friends, but there is something more useless than soccer.


Curling.

air_hog wrote:sorry all my Canadian friends, but there is something more useless than soccer.

Curling.

can we ban him.... please...

air_hog wrote:

NC43Hog wrote:

hailskins666 wrote:baseball makes me mad. bout as useless as soccer.

Nothing is as useless as soccer.

sorry all my Canadian friends, but there is something more useless than soccer.


Curling.

if i had a vote, i'd vote nascar as THE most useless sport. only topping soccer, baseball, and golf.

i hear that watching paint dry is rather interesting.

Gibbs would love you for the Nascar thing, Hellhog.
"Soccer" is not a sport, but baseball is America's Pastime and has been sullied by the actions of a few.
Start out at Shoeless Joe, pass through Charlie Hustle and meet me at the steroid scandal. It seems like every generation has it's own plague descending on the game.
Will baseball survive ? Sure. Is Canseco just milking this ? Sure.
Should they throw out the record-breakers ? That'd be nice, but how do you prove that the records were broken because of steroid use ? How do you prove that the guy was juiced the day he hit the only run that counts-the one that broke the record ? You likely can't, so the records will stand.
In the meantime, so long as the Boys Of Summer are out there playing, I'll be taking my kids (and grandkids) to Yankee Stadium.
I have twelve home games locked up already, all on Saturdays. I'll be there for the home opener against Lee and his birds.

Should they throw out the record-breakers ? That'd be nice, but how do you prove that the records were broken because of steroid use ? How do you prove that the guy was juiced the day he hit the only run that counts-the one that broke the record ? You likely can't, so the records will stand.

No, we can't prove that the records were broken because they used steroids, but they used steroids to enhance performance, therefore they cheated, therefore, they should lose the records.

Proving they used steroids? You're right...MLB and the players' union and the agents and all the rest would not allow it. There is no single Authority in control, as "Mike & the Mad Dog" pointed out today (I was out sick, and it's amazing how little there is on daytime TV). McGwire won't talk about "the past". Players won't give evidence against each other, unless, like Canseco, they have hit bottom.

The Balco trial might open up a lot, but we've already heard Bonds wriggle out of answering The Question. It looks like the Yankees will quietly back Giambi, as long as he hits. If Giambi flops without his steroids, they might file suit, claiming that he broke his contract by not keeping himself in good health...Steinbrenner had his lawyers begin investigating that angle when Giambi was first linked to Balco.

My guess? MLB will find a way to test the players so often that they don't dare use the stuff, but the funky/fakey records will be allowed to stand. Unfortunately.

*

And the game? It's still special. Baseball works by a different logic than all the time-limited games, and that open-endedness gives it a tension that other games can't touch. You can't get a lead and use the clock...or else the Yankees would have gone to the World Series last year.

While I agree that using steroids was in a sense cheating, nothing the players did was outside of the rules of baseball. Steroids were illegal, but not against the rules as per the CBA that governed the sport.

Since it was not illegal, there was no testing and therefore, no one can prove that anyone was doing anything in the past.

If we attempt to change the stats based on steroid use, than where do we draw the line. Do we go back and determine who was using amphetamines. Bill Curry, former center for the Packers and Colts said that in the 60's during his career the trainers kept a bowl of amphetamines in the locker room. He also stated that he once used a blue pill a trainer gave to him, that his father who was also a professional body builder flushed down the toilet and professed to be steroids.

Unless we examine the game as a whole and conclusively prove that not only were these pl ON steroids, but the previous players were NOT, then we can't even begin to discuss taking away records.

Even if that is proved, it was still not against the rules of the game, and therefore still a legitimate (technically speaking at least) record.