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Smoot's price just went up
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:55 pm
by curveball
Dallas signed Anthony Henry to a $10 million SB.
Nice player and will help Dallas immensely, but still considered by most a second tier type guy.
Smoot has to be considered at the bottom of the top tier, meaning a SB probably in excess of $15 million.
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:56 pm
by tcwest10
I guess that's one less team Smootie is looking at.
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:04 pm
by BringThePain!
again... Smoot hasn't even proven that he can even be grouped with the top tier guys... he has proven that he takes care of his business with a good CB on the other side of him (Bailey, Springs)...
never made it to a pro bowl... never really changed an entire game around...
he's a good player... but hasn't really proven that he's near a $15 mil SB... nor the $14 mil he was seeking...
He's gonna have to prove it somewhere else... and I don't have a feeling that the guy can take on the full time #1 roll somewhere else..
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:05 pm
by frankcal20
Wash. cant do anything until they figure out the whole
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:10 pm
by curveball
Smoot's considered better than Lucas, who is better than Henry.
If Henry gets $10 million, Lucas is going to want $12-13 and get it and Smoot is going to get $15.
I don't think any of them are "worth it", but that's what the market price looks like.
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:12 pm
by tcwest10
I can't believe the money people are throwing at a position that is fast becoming obsolete.
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:12 pm
by Redskins4Life
Damn if Dallas gave out 10 million for Anthony Henry then we should just give Freddy his 14 mil and call it a day
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:12 pm
by BossHog
Maybe you just overpaid a litle.
... and I don't see how 10 gets to 15 so quick... how about... 10, 11, 12.
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:35 pm
by curveball
BossHog wrote:Maybe you just overpaid a litle.
... and I don't see how 10 gets to 15 so quick... how about... 10, 11, 12.
Dallas overpaid for both Henry and Ferguson (and probably will for Rivera), but the opening bidder sets the price. Wait until KC sees a corner gone and overpays even more for the next corner off the board.
Unless Washington plans on going with a CB in the first, it's either sign what you have in Smoot or roll the dice with an unknown commodity in FA. I don't believe for a second that Washington would be silly enough to believe that Harris or Wilds will fill that void. Witness what happened to Dallas' #1 defense after losing just one corner (who wasn't as good as Smoot) and trying to replace him with lesser talents.
As far as jumping from $10 to $15, it's not unreasonable to believe that Smoot and his agent think that he's at least that much better than Henry.
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:42 pm
by Chris Luva Luva
curveball wrote:I don't believe for a second that Washington would be silly enough to believe that Harris or Wilds will fill that void.
Harris could definately replace Smoot. Smoot is at best above average, Walt is average. Walt didn't even have a completely healthy year. He was more than solid when he played? Did you not watch the season and see how many guys we plugged in for injuries? I didn't notice the defense skip a beat when Springs was out with injury.
I hope the Skins are silly enough to for once utilize in house talent. We don't need any F/A CB's imo.
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:56 pm
by JPM36
I for one am relieved to hear that Henry is going to Dallas. This means that my #1 greatest fear of the offseason, Fred Smoot playing for the Dallas Cowboys, will not happen.
I will be able to sleep much better tonight.
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:04 am
by BossHog
curveball wrote: Dallas overpaid for both Henry and Ferguson (and probably will for Rivera), but the opening bidder sets the price. Wait until KC sees a corner gone and overpays even more for the next corner off the board.
yes they did, especially considering the way the contracts are structuired:
ESPN wrote:Ferguson, 30, will sign a five-year, $21.5 million contract that includes a $9 million signing bonus. The deal will pay him a whopping $11.5 million in the first two seasons and $13.5 million in the first three years.
Henry will get a five-year, $25 million deal. The fourth-year veteran will bank a $10 million signing bonus, a $1 million roster bonus in 2005 and a $1 million roster bonus in 2006. He will be paid $18 million over the first three years of his contract.
curveball wrote:Unless Washington plans on going with a CB in the first, it's either sign what you have in Smoot or roll the dice with an unknown commodity in FA.
You may not think harris can fill in, but I don't think the Redskins would be overly doomed if he did. obviously it's not ideal but they don't have to panic either. And you're totally ignoring that there will likely be more cornerbacks available again on june 1. Ironically... a Cowboy fan is telling a Redskin fan that they can't wait around... and a Redskin fan is telling a Cowboy fan that we have to be patient.
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:19 am
by Chris Luva Luva
See the problem is that people are forgetting who our coaches are. Before we had to get the "best" players and I use that term loosely, to compensate for mediocre coaching. Now we have some great coaches who can teach our currently "average and mediocre" players to become starts. Why can't we birth stars here in Washington? Why can't we make the guys that everyone want? We can now, and we will.
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:07 am
by oafusp
If Smoot walks we should do what we can to land this guy
http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11335
Ronald Bartell
He could sit behind Harris for the year...unless he impresses in training camp. Plus the grooming of Wilds.
He runs a 4.3 40, and as you can see...he is jacked!
He is a big corner that can make contact...no more "Smoot Swats"
Stay cheap, stick to the scheme.
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:28 am
by Chris Luva Luva
oafusp wrote:Stay cheap, stick to the scheme.
I like that statement. Thanks for the link to the CB, I missed that thread.
I wouldn't mind getting him if he fell down into the 4th round or so. It'd be nice to groom him and Wilds into our future corners.
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:30 am
by oafusp
Chris Luva Luva wrote:oafusp wrote:Stay cheap, stick to the scheme.
I like that statement. Thanks for the link to the CB, I missed that thread.
I wouldn't mind getting him if he fell down into the 4th round or so. It'd be nice to groom him and Wilds into our future corners.
I think he will go in the low 2nd or early 3rd.....what'd you know...we have an early 3rd round pick!
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:05 am
by frankcal20
sounds good oafusp
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:11 am
by CcHhDd
I got a solution for all of this.... You guys say lucas is better than henry, and smoot is better than lucas, so smoot gets 15 million. Well I say fill in bubble D and sign Dyson for about ehhh 7-9 million range. Sure he's a drop off from smoot but at least we have a proven starter and with our safties coming back healthy we'll be solid back there and able to help him out some. I mean anyways, you don't have to be a great cornerback here in washington, all you have to do is make your man go inside and shake hands with Mr. Taylor
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:28 am
by Hog Heaven
I love how everyone is so supportive of Williams, and thinks he can plug in ANYBODY. He definately proved his worht last year, but come on, every teams still needs players. If Harris starts, then Wilds has to cover the #3 WR... that scares me. Wilds has potential, but he's still only 1 season removed from VT... where I saw him makes far, far to many mistakes. There is a reason this guy was undrafted. Yes, he'll become a solid player, but he's not there yet. We need another CB if smoot leaves. On that note, I like the Dyson idea.
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:52 am
by Scottskins
curveball wrote:BossHog wrote:Maybe you just overpaid a litle.
... and I don't see how 10 gets to 15 so quick... how about... 10, 11, 12.
Dallas overpaid for both Henry and Ferguson (and probably will for Rivera), but the opening bidder sets the price. Wait until KC sees a corner gone and overpays even more for the next corner off the board.
Unless Washington plans on going with a CB in the first, it's either sign what you have in Smoot or roll the dice with an unknown commodity in FA. I don't believe for a second that Washington would be silly enough to believe that Harris or Wilds will fill that void. Witness what happened to Dallas' #1 defense after losing just one corner (who wasn't as good as Smoot) and trying to replace him with lesser talents.
As far as jumping from $10 to $15, it's not unreasonable to believe that Smoot and his agent think that he's at least that much better than Henry.
Dallas didn't drop off in defense because of one corner. They weren't as good as their #1 ranking would have you believe. They were fairly lucky blitzing basically. They have a fast team that totally relied on the blitz. Just so happens that this year, teams saw them for what they were and didn't let them do it. That's why they dropped off. Not because of a corner...
Corners are much less valueable now. It's about the trenches, not the backs. If you get pressure on the QB, your corners can be as good as Philly's and still do well. Heck, those guys from Philly even made the pro bowl if that tells you anything...Trenches do all the work and get zero respect.
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:57 am
by Scottskins
oh and btw, think about who our DBs are. We have(without Smoot) Springs, Harris(healthy), Wilds, Mr Taylor, Matt Bowen, Ryan Clark and Andre Lott.
With Taylor and Bowen manning the Safety positions, I think we could easily turn Andre Lott or Ryan Clark into a nickel corner. Not to mention, one of these guys may possibly be able to play #2 CB.
They both tore it up last season when called upon.
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:11 pm
by oafusp
Smoot and Rolle's price continues to go up
CB - Ken Lucas signed to huge contract...
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/3436332
FOXSports.com has learned that minutes after getting lineman Mike Wahle to agree to a major deal, CB Ken Lucas agreed to a massive contract that is believed to average $8 million per year over the first two years. The deal is also believed to have a split bonus and will total $13.5 to $14 million over those two years in bonus money.
Lucas was extremely attractive on the open market because of his size and athleticism. The Seahawks didn't re-sign him because they viewed Bobby Taylor as their No. 1 corner, although others around the league love the potential that Lucas shows.
Lucas has missed just two starts in the last four seasons and in 2004 had his best season by picking off six passes. Lucas will likely team with Chris Gamble as the starting corners for Carolina, although Ricky Manning, Jr. will figure into their plans as well.
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:41 pm
by Skinna Mob
Smoot may be average, or not the best CB in some peoples eyes...But as I read one of my fellow hogs here at TheHogs.net...Smoooooot is basically the spirit and soul of the Redskins! You really cannot measure how much positive affect that has on the team as a whole. To be honest I think Smoot played better than Bailey when he was in Washington. Bailey was quick and fast, but he was emotionless....Not to mention, started to get burnt on a regular!! And to me Smoot represents what a "core" Redskin at the least should be. I dont believe you will catch to many NFL players out there playing with a cracked sternum, besides maybe IR prone McNair!
Smoooooooooooooooooooot!
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:48 pm
by curveball
I guess I was wrong about Lucas getting $12 million.
About the only hope the Redskins have that Smoot won't be looking in excess of $15 million is if KC inks Law, Rolle's price gets driven down from his off-field problem and a CB hungry team snaps him up, and no one has the cap space to take give Smoot the money.
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:02 pm
by Chris Luva Luva
Skinna Mob wrote:Smoot may be average, or not the best CB in some peoples eyes...But as I read one of my fellow hogs here at TheHogs.net...Smoooooot is basically the spirit and soul of the Redskins! You really cannot measure how much positive affect that has on the team as a whole. To be honest I think Smoot played better than Bailey when he was in Washington. Bailey was quick and fast, but he was emotionless....Not to mention, started to get burnt on a regular!! And to me Smoot represents what a "core" Redskin at the least should be. I dont believe you will catch to many NFL players out there playing with a cracked sternum, besides maybe IR prone McNair!
Smoooooooooooooooooooot!
I think you're taking it a bit far by saying Smoot was better than Chump. Smoot was maybe comparable to Chump during his last season as a Skin but he's not as good as Chump imo. Chump is not a shutdown corner either.
Smoot isn't worth a 15mill bonus, he's worth the 10.3 we offered him. If he doesn't want to take it, he can leave.