The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Is it true, do you have to have a really strong arm to throw a deep ball, or is it all about Technique and how you throw it?

I was just wondering, because sometimes people say "so and so has no arm" and then they throw a 60 yard bomb to someone in a game.

So is it Technique, or Arm Strength?

It's also size of your hand. Grip.

For power and distance, I think that technique counts more than pure-muscle arm strength, or, rather, that what we see as arm strength is long arm, large hands, and looseness, or snap, at each of the joints involved in throwing. The arm is used like a whip -- shoulder, elbow, wrist, and fingers -- each joint adding acceleration to the ball.

My hunch is that the best QB's are guys who can see and "think" and throw a bit quicker than the game that's being played around them. They can see a defense and sense that a receiver is about to come open without going through a "top of the brain" reasoning process. A shortcut from their eyes through their brain to their arm, saying, "that receiver now".

They have a shortcut throwing motion so they release the ball quicker, rather than having to wind up.

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For an example, in the early '60s the Redskins had a big QB named Norm Snead, who could throw rockets. One season, the Skins had no offense except Snead throwing 60 or 70 or 90 yards in the air to Bobby Mitchell.

A couple of years later, they traded Snead to the Eagles for Sonny Jurgenson, who could not throw quite as far (almost, though), but who got rid of the ball quicker and more accurately.

In his late '30s, people began to notice that Sonny no longer had the "arm strength" that he had had. He quit throwing the ball 70 yards downfield. It didn't matter. Teams were shifting to the "modern" zone defense, and Sonny could spot the seams and hit a receiver before the defenders could seal up their coverage. It was almost as if they evolved the defenses right into Sonny's strengths, and he never lost his sight, sense, and quick release.

(For the "late model Sonny", look at the recent biography of Vince Lombardi, who, by the way, said something like, "If we had had Sonny with the Packers, we would never have lost a game". Both Lombardi and Jurgenson attended the SB after 1969, Lombardi's season with the Redskins. I think it was SB 4, Vikings and their terrifying "purple people-eaters" defense against Kansas City. Early in the game, both Lombardi and Jurgenson were looking hard at the defense. Lombardi turned to Sonny, who was sitting a few seats away...nodded towad the defense, and Sonny grinned, and signalled, "I see it, too. We'll own that defense".)

Welch, are you referring to When Pride Still Mattered?

I thank that's it...I'll have to check Amazon for books on Lombardi and see which one leaps out at me as THE book. But yes, I think it had "pride" in the title, and the Lombardi/Jurgenson/Super Bowl story.

The "we would never have lost" is something that sticks in my head, but I can't remember a source. Maybe the same book?

Just to put it in historical perspective, teams switched in a more zone dominant scheme in the late 60's early 70's because of Bob Hayes.

The difference on arm strength between the strongest and weakest arms in the NFL on a deep ball would be 15 yards or so at most. Where it does make a difference is on the "out" and when a QB is under pressure and can't step up.

Arm strength on an "out" matters because matters because a fraction of a second is the diffeence between a 17 yard completion and a CB knocking the ball away.

You can really see arm strength on display under the rush though. As an example, Favre can get the ball to a RB in the flat off his back foot quicker, allowing the player to catch the ball and possibly even make a move while a weak-armed QB like Brunell (just using him for example, not trying to start a flame war) would likely get the RB stopped in his tracks. The fraction a second difference it takes the ball to arrive can mean the difference between no gain and who knows how many yards if te RB braks the initial tackle.

No. Arm strength is severely OVER-RATED. Chad Pennington is a prime example. He places the ball where it needs to be. Joe Montana was the same. Troy Aikman had a decent arm but his accuracy was superb.

NO, it has nothing to do with it. Im 16, and Im a skinny guy( I still play fball for my highschool), but the point it, My arms arent huge, but I can throw way farter than my qb, I can throw a football about 55-60 yards and im only like 16, it is ALL about technique and practice believe me, I used to suck at throwing. Get out there and throw a football for 15-20 minutes each day, work on techinique make sure you use your whole body step into it, and you will be able to throw far

John Elway and Dan Fouts had great technique, accuracy, and strength.

Physical talent -plus- technique are better than one -minus- the other.

WshSkins22 wrote:NO, it has nothing to do with it. Im 16, and Im a skinny guy( I still play fball for my highschool), but the point it, My arms arent huge, but I can throw way farter than my qb, I can throw a football about 55-60 yards and im only like 16, it is ALL about technique and practice believe me, I used to suck at throwing. Get out there and throw a football for 15-20 minutes each day, work on techinique make sure you use your whole body step into it, and you will be able to throw far

Are you serious? You can throw 55-60 yards? That's pretty impressive...wouldn't be surprised if the Skins called you up. They need a backup for MBrunell....he can only throw about 20.

hatsOFF2gibbs wrote:

WshSkins22 wrote:NO, it has nothing to do with it. Im 16, and Im a skinny guy( I still play fball for my highschool), but the point it, My arms arent huge, but I can throw way farter than my qb, I can throw a football about 55-60 yards and im only like 16, it is ALL about technique and practice believe me, I used to suck at throwing. Get out there and throw a football for 15-20 minutes each day, work on techinique make sure you use your whole body step into it, and you will be able to throw far

Are you serious?

If he is, he can probably stink the entire field, probably part of the stadium too. What do you have for dinner?

hahahaha, nice my bad, but yeah I have no idea why I can throw a football far, Ig only I had height man im about 5'9

WshSkins22 wrote:NO, it has nothing to do with it. Im 16, and Im a skinny guy( I still play fball for my highschool), but the point it, My arms arent huge, but I can throw way farter than my qb, I can throw a football about 55-60 yards and im only like 16, it is ALL about technique and practice believe me, I used to suck at throwing. Get out there and throw a football for 15-20 minutes each day, work on techinique make sure you use your whole body step into it, and you will be able to throw far

I think youre underestimating how much 60 yards really is guy

You can stand at the Goal Line and throw to the Opponents 40? Wow. Wow.

I not underestimating anything, I say on a normal day I can chuk and nfl ball aobut 50 yards, if im on a really good day it ca go 60. You think im kidding but im really not

^^ its also not accurately 60 yards I cant hit a targer 60 yards away. If I threw 10 passes my average would be around 50, but its once in a blue moon I can throw it 60

WshSkins22 wrote:^^ its also not accurately 60 yards I cant hit a targer 60 yards away.

Mark? Is that you? I can not believe the first part. But I believe the second part.

WshSkins22 wrote:If I threw 10 passes my average would be around 50, but its once in a blue moon I can throw it 60

50/50? Rod? Is that you? Is 60% not stretching the truth?

Arm strength CAN really help throw deep outs and such. Arm strength doesn't help as much deep as it does mid range near the sideline or in between two defenders playing the middle of the field.

Bill Walsh sometime said that their offense with the 49´s was so good because Joe Montana always delivered the ball where it could be catched.

With that in mind maybe arm strengh is a bit overvalued (see Jeff George).

Maybe we need to be more precise about "arm-strength".

Do we mean pure muscle?

I don't think its key, since the throwing motion depends so much on the whipping motion of your body. The extra acceleration that boosts speed. That's one reason why 6-4 Norman Snead could throw a ball about 100 yards. He could knock down a brick wall at 10 yards, or, unluckily, a receiver.

Snead was tall for his day. Maybe only Roman Gabriel had the same build (6-4, 220 pounds...unheard of...).

For a baseball comparison, Walter Johnson had very long arms.

So, if you have technique, sure, you might well out-throw the QB's on your school team.

Does it really matter how far a QB can throw the ball if no one is there to catch it? Arm strength is important for some throws (the deep out, quick slant), but accuracy is equally important. Decision-making in terms of how and when to throw the ball is an important variable that must be considered, as well. Field vision and recognition of defensive schemes allow a QB to make quick, good decisions with the ball. Arm strentgh and accuracy allow the QB to get the ball where it needs to be.

Hail!!

Arm strength? Vision? Technique? Receivers?

Baloney.

Everyone knows...

It's gotta be the shoes!!!

You can really see arm strength on display under the rush though. As an example, Favre can get the ball to a RB in the flat off his back foot quicker, allowing the player to catch the ball and possibly even make a move while a weak-armed QB like Brunell (just using him for example, not trying to start a flame war) would likely get the RB stopped in his tracks. The fraction a second difference it takes the ball to arrive can mean the difference between no gain and who knows how many yards if te RB braks the initial tackle.

From the "FATHER" of the Modern Pro Passing Game - HOF Coach Sid Gillman"

SID GILLMAN PASSING GAME THOUGHTS


TIMING OF PASS:
1. The timing of the delivery is essential. It is the single most important item to successful passing.
2. Each route has it’s own distinct timing. As routes and patterns are developed on the field, the exact point of delivery will be emphasized.
3. Take mental notes on the field on timing of the throw.
4. If you cannot co-ordinate eye and arm to get the ball at it’s intended spot properly and on time, you are not a passer.
5. Keeping the ball in both hands and chest high is part of the answer.
6. Generally speaking, the proper timing of any pass is putting the ball in the air before, or as the receiver goes into his final break.
7. If you wait until the receiver is well into his final move, you are too late.

THIS is what it takes to be a successful QB!

Jim Zorn talks about Jason Campbell:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJAlyHvpv2k

Collins needs to play!!