The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Washington Redskins wide receiver Laveranues Coles is unlikely to undergo surgery for a chronic condition in his toe, team sources said, while linebacker Mike Barrow was visiting a specialist yesterday to get another opinion on his injury.

Coles, who set a career best in receptions but caught just one touchdown pass last season, was not able to cut and accelerate normally and was also hampered by the condition for much of the 2003 season. But Coles has been resting the toe since the season ended and was enthused about the progress he made after receiving a cortisone shot late in the season. Team officials have allowed Coles to make any final decision about surgery, and it appears unlikely at this time that he will undergo any procedures for his injury.


Barrow's career is in jeopardy after missing all of the 2004 season with tendinitis and other problems in his knee. That injury, the results of his latest meeting with a specialist in Florida and the emergence of several young linebackers last season could lead to Barrow's release. The Redskins will reevaluate the status of their injured players -- offensive linemen Ray Brown and Chris Samuels also underwent minor surgical procedures -- early next month.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Jan28.html

ANT7088 wrote:

-- offensive linemen Ray Brown and Chris Samuels also underwent minor surgical procedures -- early next month.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Jan28.html

This was written by a professional? Even I know better!

AAGHHH!!! Thats all i wanted this offseason was for Coles to have surgery on his friggin foot! And now Barrow is gonna have surgery, why? He had his chance last year but some guy named Antonio Pierce balled up. i doubt and hope that Barrow will play over Pierce.

I'm sort of glad that Coles doesn't want surgery. I wouldn't want to take a chance on possibly ending his career with the surgery. He has done well the last two years with the injury.

I also hope Barrow recovers well from his injury. He is a real force when he's on the field.

Jake wrote:I'm sort of glad that Coles doesn't want surgery. I wouldn't want to take a chance on possibly ending his career with the surgery. He has done well the last two years with the injury.

I also hope Barrow recovers well from his injury. He is a real force when he's on the field.

I'm kinda dissapointed that Coles isn't going to get the surgery because we won't seem him return to this old self... I can't say I blame him either. If he can't turn back into a legitimate #1 then I may change my mind and say we need a WR out of the draft.

yes, this is very bad news about Coles. This cortizone shot stuff is bull. If he hasn't taken a cortizone shot before now, then somebody is a moron. If he doesn't have the surgery, he has to restructure to #2 money and that's all there is to it. He just simply isn't a #1 WR with his toe the way it is.

Guess we definitely have to go after Mushim or Plaxico now, or draft a WR at #9. WR in the first would be a huge mistake IMO, but we have to do something...

im happy that coles isnt getting surgery, because if he knew there was a small chance of ending his career he would have done it.. but this seems like its a big surgery.
for barrow he had his chance but now antonio is here and hes staying.

Scottskins wrote:If he doesn't have the surgery, he has to restructure to #2 money and that's all there is to it. He just simply isn't a #1 WR with his toe the way it is.

i agree 100%. i am pissed to hear that he is not going to get the surgery. he is crap without his toe. he used to be one of the best WRs in the league, and now he is just a pretty good #2, which is not what we paid for.

don't get me wrong. if he doesn't have the surgery, I don't want to get rid of him. He's still a great possession receiver. He just doesn't have the acceleration or cutting skills he used to have. His contract isn't outrageous, but it could be trimmed a bit thru restructuring to get him down to high end #2 money.

The other thing is that at times during the season, his foot musta been pretty bad because he was never getting open and he was dropping balls. It always came in bunches as well. Gibbs needs to be prepared to either not start him when the foot is bad, or pull him out of the game when it flares up. A few games he was hurting us by being in there.

I just think this makes it mandatory we pick up a FA WR and draft one. Rod is gone, McCants is probably gone, and now we know what we will get with Coles the rest of his career. We are really short at WR now.

We will have Coles, Jacobs, Thrash and Brown. None of them is a #1 WR. None of them demands double coverage. We gotta have that guy. I think we pursue Plaxico or Mushim very hard this offseason and draft a WR in the 2nd round(which we will aquire thru trades).

I still see us going DE, WR, Center in the first 3 picks. Now we just gotta figure out who to clear out to make room for the new FA WR capwise....

Scottskins wrote:yes, this is very bad news about Coles. This cortizone shot stuff is bull. If he hasn't taken a cortizone shot before now, then somebody is a moron. If he doesn't have the surgery, he has to restructure to #2 money and that's all there is to it. He just simply isn't a #1 WR with his toe the way it is.

Guess we definitely have to go after Mushim or Plaxico now, or draft a WR at #9. WR in the first would be a huge mistake IMO, but we have to do something...

???

Yep, Bubba Tyer's a moron... that's why Joe brought him out of retirement... because he couldn't think of anyone else. Anyone who has ever had a cortizone shot knows that it should be a LAST DITCH effort. You can do extremely serious damage to something when you CAN'T FEEL IT AT ALL.

I guess some of you just don't understand the fact that surgery could end his career... which would just mean that we're on the hook for a salary cap of a player that ain't even playing on the roster anymore.

... sounds REAL smart.

And he's caught a lot of balls for a team that has had quarterback issues out the wazoo...

I personally think it's funny how a lot of you think you can run a football franchise like your Madden team and just pick and choose until you get it right... and yet in the next breath, you same people will cite a LACK OF CONTINUITY as one of our biggest contributing detriments.

I'd like to see some continuity this offseason myself. We need some players -- no doubt about it -- but I also think that we have to give some of these players time to meld and form a cohesive unit... you can't do that if you're changing all of the pieces of the puzzle all of the time.

... and personally, I can't see how suggestions like drop Coles, Gardner AND McCants make any sense at all.

BossHog wrote:

Scottskins wrote:yes, this is very bad news about Coles. This cortizone shot stuff is bull. If he hasn't taken a cortizone shot before now, then somebody is a moron. If he doesn't have the surgery, he has to restructure to #2 money and that's all there is to it. He just simply isn't a #1 WR with his toe the way it is.

Guess we definitely have to go after Mushim or Plaxico now, or draft a WR at #9. WR in the first would be a huge mistake IMO, but we have to do something...

???

Yep, Bubba Tyer's a moron... that's why Joe brought him out of retirement... because he couldn't think of anyone else. Anyone who has ever had a cortizone shot knows that it should be a LAST DITCH effort. You can do extremely serious damage to something when you CAN'T FEEL IT AT ALL.

I guess some of you just don't understand the fact that surgery could end his career... which would just mean that we're on the hook for a salary cap of a player that ain't even playing on the roster anymore.

... sounds REAL smart.

And he's caught a lot of balls for a team that has had quarterback issues out the wazoo...

I personally think it's funny how a lot of you think you can run a football franchise like your Madden team and just pick and choose until you get it right... and yet in the next breath, you same people will cite a LACK OF CONTINUITY as one of our biggest contributing detriments.

I'd like to see some continuity this offseason myself. We need some players -- no doubt about it -- but I also think that we have to give some of these players time to meld and form a cohesive unit... you can't do that if you're changing all of the pieces of the puzzle all of the time.

... and personally, I can't see how suggestions like drop Coles, Gardner AND McCants make any sense at all.

I've had 2 cortizone shots & they didn't do anything. After I read that the surgery may be career ending I was happy he didn't do it. I'd rather have Coles with 9 toes, playing, then have all 10 & not playing at all!

Continuity IS/HAS been the biggest problem not just for Coles, but for the whole team. Gardner is going to get traded because of that! You'll never be great when you have over 8 QBs throwing to you in a short amount of time!

I actually think it might be a shame we're gettin rid of 50/50...He could be good but he's been scarred with all these new QB's and coaches. Its a bit unfair to him.

BossHog wrote:

Scottskins wrote:yes, this is very bad news about Coles. This cortizone shot stuff is bull. If he hasn't taken a cortizone shot before now, then somebody is a moron. If he doesn't have the surgery, he has to restructure to #2 money and that's all there is to it. He just simply isn't a #1 WR with his toe the way it is.

Guess we definitely have to go after Mushim or Plaxico now, or draft a WR at #9. WR in the first would be a huge mistake IMO, but we have to do something...

???

Yep, Bubba Tyer's a moron... that's why Joe brought him out of retirement... because he couldn't think of anyone else. Anyone who has ever had a cortizone shot knows that it should be a LAST DITCH effort. You can do extremely serious damage to something when you CAN'T FEEL IT AT ALL.

I guess some of you just don't understand the fact that surgery could end his career... which would just mean that we're on the hook for a salary cap of a player that ain't even playing on the roster anymore.

... sounds REAL smart.

And he's caught a lot of balls for a team that has had quarterback issues out the wazoo...

I personally think it's funny how a lot of you think you can run a football franchise like your Madden team and just pick and choose until you get it right... and yet in the next breath, you same people will cite a LACK OF CONTINUITY as one of our biggest contributing detriments.

I'd like to see some continuity this offseason myself. We need some players -- no doubt about it -- but I also think that we have to give some of these players time to meld and form a cohesive unit... you can't do that if you're changing all of the pieces of the puzzle all of the time.

... and personally, I can't see how suggestions like drop Coles, Gardner AND McCants make any sense at all.

I know what a Cortizone shot is and what can happen if you play with them. I also know that they are used a lot in the all major sports. They are used to keep guys on the field when they probably shouldn't be. I have serious doubts that Coles has never taken one before. Regardless, you said it yourself. If he starts using the cortizone to make up for not having surgery, he's gonna hurt himself sooner or later anyway, so what's the difference?

I was making a blanket statement about the fact that I don't believe Coles hasn't taken a cortizone shot before. I don't think Bubba is a moron

This is all Coles decision. He's worried about losing his career. I understand that. But the fact remains, he's not the star WR with his foot as is. If he doesn't get healed up, then he becomes our #2 WR. What's so hard to understand about that?


I am not the one that decides to drop anyone either. Rod is as good as gone and I'm happy about it. WRs that drop as many balls as he does are horrible for a team regardless of the great catches he makes at times. McCants would stay in my ideal scenario, but I think he's stuck his foot in his mouth and IMO Joe will get rid of him because of it. Joe likes things in house, and DMac is taking things to the public. He also doesn't seem like the smartest guy(I could be wrong though), and if that's true, he's not a Gibbs guy.

I don't wanna get rid of Coles. He's a great possession guy even with the foot. I just see the need for a true #1 with Coles opting to play as is.

I want continuity as well, but if your overpaid, you must restructure, and if your not a Gibbs player, you must be gone.

Clinton Portis wrote:I actually think it might be a shame we're gettin rid of 50/50...He could be good but he's been scarred with all these new QB's and coaches. Its a bit unfair to him.

None of our other WRs have had near as many problems catching balls from different QBs. I don't think anybody would disagree when I say Rod is fast, runs good routes, and gets open. Rod has a problem catching the ball. That just kills an offense when a WR consistently drops catchable balls. He's gotta go IMO, and apparently the coaches think so too...

Coles isn't a #1 WR with his injured toe? He's had this problem for two years now. Never complains, goes out in his first year on a new team and makes first alternate for the PB. Goes out in his second year on a new team (in a new system), consistantly gets hung out to dry and catches balls in double coverage.

He's still very shifty for having this "severe" ailment. I can remember a lot of dump off plays this year where he'd side step one or two corners and make something out of nothing.

We all want him to light up scoreboards like he did for the Jets but Chad P. and Patrick R. have two very different throwing styles. Chad fits it into a space and lets the WR do the work after the catch. Patrick throws it a million mph and makes the WR do the work before the catch.

Ask him to renegotiate for #2 money when he doesn't set his own personal career milestones. Ask him to renegotiate for #2 money when he has a season like Rod Gardner just had.

Woah, what's with all this coles hating?, he's not a #1 receiver anymore? I bet if i said hines ward were a free agent everyone would be lets sign him up lets sign him now. We'd all hype him up about how tough he is and what a great competitor he is and how he'd make a great number 1 receiver. Thing is Coles caught more passes for about the same amount of yards. Sure he only had 1 touchdown but that's because we didn't score many of them this year. Regardless of the toe, he's a great number one guy who is tough as nails and goes over the middle to get any ball thrown to him. He did drop a few passes in bunches this year but that was because he was playing with a dislocated finger. Just because he has a bad toe doesn't mean we should all be down on him. Sure he's not the same type of receiver he was when we signed him. We were expecting to get a great deep threat. Instead he's become a possesion guy. No biggie, he's still a pro-bowl caliber receiver. Be glad he's here and be glad he can keep playing for years

All this talk about Coles' toe which has been nagging injury for 2 seasons. Just get surgery and move on. If T.O. can brake a bone in his leg, tear some ligaments, have a steel plate and some screws put in to fix it, and be back to play in 6 weeks, I think Coles' should chance surgery and rehab for 8 months.

EasyMoney wrote:Coles isn't a #1 WR with his injured toe? He's had this problem for two years now. Never complains, goes out in his first year on a new team and makes first alternate for the PB. Goes out in his second year on a new team (in a new system), consistantly gets hung out to dry and catches balls in double coverage.

He's still very shifty for having this "severe" ailment. I can remember a lot of dump off plays this year where he'd side step one or two corners and make something out of nothing.

We all want him to light up scoreboards like he did for the Jets but Chad P. and Patrick R. have two very different throwing styles. Chad fits it into a space and lets the WR do the work after the catch. Patrick throws it a million mph and makes the WR do the work before the catch.

Ask him to renegotiate for #2 money when he doesn't set his own personal career milestones. Ask him to renegotiate for #2 money when he has a season like Rod Gardner just had.

that's right. Coles is NOT a #1 WR with his toe as is. I've watched every game he's played since he's been a skin, and he has lost his ability to blow by DB's and his cutting ability is much less than it was as well. Before the injury, he was regularly getting behind DB's. He doesn't do that any longer, and if it acts, smells and tastes like a duck....

Like I said, I love Coles, and I don't want him going anywhere, but the fact is, we need a #1 WR. You can't pay two guys #1 money, especially when your the redskins and are already pushing the limit on the cap. No surgery for Coles should mean renegotiation.

Either way, I'm just gonna wait it out and see what the Skins do. I get the feeling Gibbs really wants Coles to get the surgery, but what can ya do? A possible career ending type surgery is always the players choice. Coles is still a hell of a receiver bad toe or not. And I'm glad to have him

Hopefully the cotizone shots won't make him hurt himself worse.



On another note, I'm reallyt starting to like what I'm hearing about Porter. He would probably get a smaller contract than Mushim or Plaxico as well, so I really hope we can bring that guy into the fold

1fan4ramsey wrote:All this talk about Coles' toe which has been nagging injury for 2 seasons. Just get surgery and move on. If T.O. can brake a bone in his leg, tear some ligaments, have a steel plate and some screws put in to fix it, and be back to play in 6 weeks, I think Coles' should chance surgery and rehab for 8 months.

But we dont know if TO is still the same guy, sure he worked hard to get on the field ontime for the Superbowl, but he may never be the same

ejay183 wrote:

1fan4ramsey wrote:All this talk about Coles' toe which has been nagging injury for 2 seasons. Just get surgery and move on. If T.O. can brake a bone in his leg, tear some ligaments, have a steel plate and some screws put in to fix it, and be back to play in 6 weeks, I think Coles' should chance surgery and rehab for 8 months.

But we dont know if TO is still the same guy, sure he worked hard to get on the field ontime for the Superbowl, but he may never be the same

and he isn't gonna be the same T.O. in the superbowl regardless of how he comes back from the injury eventually. I really don't see how he's gonna be able to cut and accelerate like normal so quickly. I just hope he doesn't end up hurting himself worse...

Scottskins wrote:

EasyMoney wrote:Coles isn't a #1 WR with his injured toe? He's had this problem for two years now. Never complains, goes out in his first year on a new team and makes first alternate for the PB. Goes out in his second year on a new team (in a new system), consistantly gets hung out to dry and catches balls in double coverage.

He's still very shifty for having this "severe" ailment. I can remember a lot of dump off plays this year where he'd side step one or two corners and make something out of nothing.

We all want him to light up scoreboards like he did for the Jets but Chad P. and Patrick R. have two very different throwing styles. Chad fits it into a space and lets the WR do the work after the catch. Patrick throws it a million mph and makes the WR do the work before the catch.

Ask him to renegotiate for #2 money when he doesn't set his own personal career milestones. Ask him to renegotiate for #2 money when he has a season like Rod Gardner just had.

that's right. Coles is NOT a #1 WR with his toe as is. I've watched every game he's played since he's been a skin, and he has lost his ability to blow by DB's and his cutting ability is much less than it was as well. Before the injury, he was regularly getting behind DB's. He doesn't do that any longer, and if it acts, smells and tastes like a duck....

Like I said, I love Coles, and I don't want him going anywhere, but the fact is, we need a #1 WR. You can't pay two guys #1 money, especially when your the redskins and are already pushing the limit on the cap. No surgery for Coles should mean renegotiation.

Either way, I'm just gonna wait it out and see what the Skins do. I get the feeling Gibbs really wants Coles to get the surgery, but what can ya do? A possible career ending type surgery is always the players choice. Coles is still a hell of a receiver bad toe or not. And I'm glad to have him

Hopefully the cotizone shots won't make him hurt himself worse.



On another note, I'm reallyt starting to like what I'm hearing about Porter. He would probably get a smaller contract than Mushim or Plaxico as well, so I really hope we can bring that guy into the fold

_________________________________________________

Scott, definitely no animosity in what I'm about to say...

Do you all just not remember L.C.'s toe being an offseason problem 2 years ago? It was a problem for about the 2nd half of his first year in a Skins uniform. Yes, it's progressively become worse but it's been a problem for more than just this year. I don't remember his quotes verbatim but they were something along the lines of "my coach and my owner are getting a lot of heat right now, my team needs me, injured or not." He wasn't talking about a broken finger...

It was a question two offseasons ago. With all of the heat the media is giving Gibbs about the WR's THIS offseason I can understand why it's more of an issue.

It's like some of you think his PB season washed away him playing injured for almost a year and a half. 90 catches and almost a 1000 yards on mostly dump-off plays isn't bad.

I'm telling you now... if someone else would've helped him out there he would've had a better year. Hopefully we'll pick up someone who can...

Scottskins wrote:

ejay183 wrote:

1fan4ramsey wrote:All this talk about Coles' toe which has been nagging injury for 2 seasons. Just get surgery and move on. If T.O. can brake a bone in his leg, tear some ligaments, have a steel plate and some screws put in to fix it, and be back to play in 6 weeks, I think Coles' should chance surgery and rehab for 8 months.

But we dont know if TO is still the same guy, sure he worked hard to get on the field ontime for the Superbowl, but he may never be the same

and he isn't gonna be the same T.O. in the superbowl regardless of how he comes back from the injury eventually. I really don't see how he's gonna be able to cut and accelerate like normal so quickly. I just hope he doesn't end up hurting himself worse...

He practiced with the team today and ran all the routes and made all the cuts, he will play in the Bowl, no doubt.

Coles needs to get the surgery and try and rehab himself to the player he was when we signed him to big money, or restructure the deal, he's not the same player with this toe injury. He's a paid professional, it needs to taken care of now in the offseason.

We'll see what TO does in the game this week. I still don't see him being normal TO. Regardless, I really don't think he'd do anything against the Pats even if completely healthy, so it just seems like a dumb chance to take playing so early. I do understand though. It is the superbowl afterall, and he may never get another chance to play in one, so I'd definitely play if I were him.

die cowboys die wrote:

Scottskins wrote:If he doesn't have the surgery, he has to restructure to #2 money and that's all there is to it. He just simply isn't a #1 WR with his toe the way it is.

i agree 100%. i am pissed to hear that he is not going to get the surgery. he is crap without his toe. he used to be one of the best WRs in the league, and now he is just a pretty good #2, which is not what we paid for.

If coles had surgery it was 50% chance that he would never play again. This is not a simple surgery.

I understand it's a very risky surgery. I feel bad for coles. I really do. But this is about the redskins winning, not about a players career. Coles is not going to have the surgery. That's cool with me. But now the team needs to find somebody to stretch the field. Somebody that demands double coverage.

DMac and Rod are probably gone. We have to get a legitimate #1 to go with Coles now. Jacobs and Thrash are great in the 3 and 4 slots. Coles will be a great possession receiver as long as his toe doesn't get any worse. If he has problems with it he needs to let the coaches know though, so they can get somebody healthy in there.

I saw a few games this season where his concentration was bad, he was not getting open and was dropping balls. If he's going to stay on this team with his toe as is, then he needs to be a man and admit when he isn't helping the team. I'm talking about when the toe is so bad that it affects his game more than it already is. Right now, it's just affecting his acceleration and cutting ability. But at those times when the toe is really bad, you can tell because he plays pretty badly. That's the part that concerns me the most.

And I don't mean drop him to the third receiver. I'm just talking about when the toe is really hurting him.