Chemical Weapon found in Iraq

skinsfaninroanoke · Post by **skinsfaninroanoke** » Fri May 21, 2004 9:05 pm

when you go to Syria - ask a taxi driver to take you to the Hisbollah or any other terrorist orginization... they will take you to that place's office. No kidding. They are that openly placated there.

First - Hussein wouldn't have sent the weapons east - Iran... North? Turkey... South? Saudi.

We spent what - 7-8 months dithering about going in there... plenty of time to take 'em to the mountains and hide 'em deep or send 'em to Syria.

I think you mean Libya btw... though I could be misremembering myself... Khadafi has given up on his WMD and has allowed inspectors in. He also paid reparations to the Locherbie families.

If for no other reason than to get that madman to settle down, this is a good war. There are other reasons, but that one in particular is one of the best. North Korea simmering down is another.

All in all, human rights, religion, safety of people, safety of region and removing people allowing terrorists to train in their country and funding them - two major contributors - Hussein and the Taliban are now out of commission.

I can't imagine someone not seeing those as facts.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Fri May 21, 2004 9:11 pm

skinsfaninroanoke wrote:All in all, human rights, religion, safety of people, safety of region and removing people allowing terrorists to train in their country and funding them - two major contributors - Hussein and the Taliban are now out of commission.

I can't imagine someone not seeing those as facts.

Well, the Iraqi's certainly are safer... I mean, with our troops there we're not bombing as much (unless you're trying to get married, that pissed us right off). Also, how is the Taliban "out of commission?

Redskins Rule · Post by **Redskins Rule** » Fri May 21, 2004 9:17 pm

First, I wanna say that I'm a liberal. Yes, that also means I'm a democrat. I'm not like Skins Fan55. I can see things other then....well you know! I am a liberal because I don't like some of the views that conservatives share among each other. That is just how I am. I have the freedom to choose it. As Bush said the day the statues of Saddam fell, "Your free now and freedom is good". Freedom is good! and we got that because of our forefathers and we are keeping that by the hard work of our military.

Noone must think that just because SkinsFan55 is "liberal" that all real liberals are like that. I have some friends that are liberal and they support the war. They think it was the right thing to do. I support the war. I support the war because of this:

There was just to much of a threat out there to harm our national security AGAIN

Those terrorist, who caused disaster on 9/11, didn't fly but researched the crop duster planes. Who can say with absolute certainty that Saddam wasn't at least planning to give some of his WMD's over to terrorist to use against us here. Even if he didn't have them.... who can say that he wasn't willing to make some. Whats to say SkinsFaninRoanoke, that Saddam didn't put some chemical agents in one of those barrels of "oil" that he gave to known terrorist groups. If he did..WATCH OUT! Because a crop duster plane can deliver it. Bush must have been thinking about that. That is why our troops are fighting this war!!!!!!!!!

They are fighting for OUR Freedom. And Sadly they are also dying for it :cry:

.

SkinsFan55 you need to wake up and realize something. Our national Security was attacked. Not threatened but attacked. President Bush said in his first speech that we will not let countries harbor terrorist. Iraq was a serious threat to arm the terrorist. I don't understand how you can't see that. But maybe, just maybe you can realize that.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Fri May 21, 2004 9:20 pm

um, I'm not even going to bother responding to that because it relates to me in NO way.

I said the war was good, making a stop in Iraq was bad, why don't you go back to the doctor and get the perscription updated

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Fri May 21, 2004 9:25 pm

I think you mean Libya btw... though I could be misremembering myself... Khadafi has given up on his WMD and has allowed inspectors in. He also paid reparations to the Locherbie families.

Hyar, SFIR, my memory was failing me. Sure enough, I believe it was Lybia and not Syria that gave up it's stuff.

And now it's time to walk away with my hands in my pockets and whistling, pretending like I never made the blunder

(kind of like saying "wasn't it Iran that we invaded? Why are we hearing so much about Iraq?")

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Fri May 21, 2004 9:29 pm

GD it here i go again 55, what is your deal with bin laden. is he the only terrorist that can do harm in your eyes? is he the only known terrorist on the globe? is it not possible that the cia and military still believe that there are other terrorist threats in iraq other than WMD's? could it be that intell suggest that we are only a few steps from getting to "other" bad guys? and you didn't answer my question from before either...

"if only this war had anything to do with ameriacn freedom".....where were you on 9/11? was our freedom not violated?

open your eyes, this war is bigger than the country of iraq.

skinsfaninroanoke · Post by **skinsfaninroanoke** » Fri May 21, 2004 9:30 pm

Redskins Rule wrote: Whats to say SkinsFaninRoanoke, that Saddam didn't put some chemical agents in one of those barrels of "oil" that he gave to known terrorist groups. If he did..WATCH OUT! Because a crop duster plane can deliver it. Bush must have been thinking about that. That is why our troops are fighting this war!!!!!!!!!

Whoa bro - wrong guy - I am on the side of the war.

Skinsfan55 is the one saying there was no threat.

I agree with you on the crop dusting - though I pointed something out poorly....

What Saddam did was give away certificates to organizations to reap from the profit of the sale of x million barrels of oil. They got 20-30 cents on a barrel, which doesn't sound like much until you realize that he sent Russia, in several places over a billion barrels worth. Many terrorist organizations got 10 million or better.

Oh - funny thing - most of the most vocal people against the war in positions of power were on that list.

SF55, until you answer me intellectually honestly, I will not answer you anymore. Your rejoinder lacked any credibility due to not answering most of the questions I posed to you, again. I came to you with facts, you spouted with emotionalism that doesn't back up your position other than to state a feeling rather than a thought.

Back it up, or rethink your position. Is it so hard to swallow your pride and examine the evidence I presented to you now and before? Are you afraid that the main reason you hate Bush might evaporate in front of your eyes if you have to step back and logically look at something?

I know of where I speak. I do a lot of research. I read voraciously. I know how to research both sides and I didn't argue with emotionalism. I am 35, have been in combat, have been wounded and would do it again as it was for the right of the human race. The same applies here. We can't isolate ourselves anymore, or it might be the CN tower, the Eiffel Tower, the Bundestadt, the Canadian Congress, the Parliment or any number of other targets if we just let things remain the status quo.

Tell your professor in college to back up what he says with proof. Don't just suck into it. Sheesh.

Some of us have lived it, son. When you do, if you do, then come tell me how I am stained, decadent, terroristic, barbaric or any of your labels you want to place on me. I have killed for my country, my ideals and my people. I have been stabbed in the back, and I was daggone nearly been shot a number of times - thank God for good reflexes.

I don't need anyone telling me what they think my philosophy should be when they are just getting weaned from their parent's home.

Take a serious look at it, for real. Don't be afraid of looking at both sides, like you are accusing every adult who has lived far longer than you on here of doing.

For someone who is, I believe, 19, you sure are stubborn.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Fri May 21, 2004 9:35 pm

hailskins666 wrote:GD it here i go again 55, what is your deal with bin laden. is he the only terrorist that can do harm in your eyes? is he the only known terrorist on the globe? is it not possible that the cia and military still believe that there are other terrorist threats in iraq other than WMD's? could it be that intell suggest that we are only a few steps from getting to "other" bad guys? and you didn't answer my question from before either...
"if only this war had anything to do with ameriacn freedom".....where were you on 9/11? was our freedom not violated?

open your eyes, this war is bigger than the country of iraq.

Um, I think it is pretty universally accepted that Bin Laden is THE most revered and important terrorist out there, like I said, cut off the head and the body will die. Also, I think it's fairly obvious that the CIA sucks, most people would agree, as would the CIA judging by their actions. The have started a remodel and will be trying to shape themselves after England's MI-6 (yes, James Bond's MI-6) in the future as the British are MUCH better at intelligence gathering and the like than we are. The war is bigger than Iraq and I have stated that Ad Nasuem! Have you been reading at all?

skinsfaninroanoke · Post by **skinsfaninroanoke** » Fri May 21, 2004 9:39 pm

um - you read much?

Part of Bush's reason for going there was British MI-6's reports that there were WMD.

The CIA sucks due to John Kerry's fight to cut funding of the organization, as well as the total castration of the organization in the 80's, but you won't know that. It's in his voting record.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Fri May 21, 2004 9:44 pm

Rich, to say I don't agree with you is because I'm not being intellectually honest is pretty ridiculous. I am not going to be your twin on this issue. I can respect and disagree with some of what you say at the same time, why can't you show the same courtesy to me?

The fact of the matter is that MAYBE going to Iraq did some good, but we have obviously messed up, and we haven't gone about this the right way. Why do we exclusively reserve the right to invade countries for our own gain? After all, even if your theory is correct and this is going to stabalize Iraq, that's our gain right?

We stormed into Iraq and are forcing a government on them and supervising them VERY closely. We also raided Ahmad Chalabi's home, a onetime pentagon favorite to replace Saddam as Iraq's chief executive because he criticized the US according to early reports. We're abusing prisoners, bombing with bad intel and bullying the region.

Even IF we went in for the right reasons, things are still going very wrong and there's no denying that.

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Fri May 21, 2004 9:48 pm

how exactly have we "messed up"? we got saddam didn't we?

skinsfaninroanoke · Post by **skinsfaninroanoke** » Fri May 21, 2004 9:50 pm

answer my questions.

show me your proof.

I don't have to admit or deny anything - but I quoted both pre and post Bush documents, liberal and conservative documents.

I think you're being insulting by shoving this down my throat with no proof what so ever. You aren't being honest - you won't read my proof, you won't debate the questions I posed. You wriggle around like a politician yourself and avoid the hard questions I asked.

As far as I am concerned, this conversation with someone who won't open the blinds to see what is going on right outside is pointless. Finis.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Fri May 21, 2004 9:52 pm

skinsfaninroanoke wrote:um - you read much?

Part of Bush's reason for going there was British MI-6's reports that there were WMD.

The CIA sucks due to John Kerry's fight to cut funding of the organization, as well as the total castration of the organization in the 80's, but you won't know that. It's in his voting record.

No intelligence gathering organization is going to be perfect... it was certainly possible that Iraq had WMD's but with the intelligence gathering world focusing on Iraq while we were occupied elsewhere not even one missle was seen being moved! MI-6 has since backed off the WMD stance and England and the US both are scrambling for a reason for war after the fact...

Also, how great was the CIA when they were getting all kinds of money during the Cold War? Not very, they couldn't do jack! With plans to discredit Castro by sneaking him some LSD of infecting him with a hair loss agent it's no wonder people didn't take them seriously enough to give them any more dough.

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Fri May 21, 2004 9:53 pm

and you STILL didn't answer my question......

"if only this war had anything to do with american freedom".....where were you on 9/11? was our freedom not violated?

or should i post this question in another language?

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Fri May 21, 2004 10:01 pm

Um, that question has already been answered... you haven't been looking.

We're sidetracked in Iraq instead of going after the real problem. Even if Iraq was a good target we've screwed it up by insulting the islamic culture by abusing prisoners with anti muslim tactics, such as being forced to be naked, pose in homosexual positions, eating pork, being fondled by female jailers and other purely cruel things like threats of rape, murder and being forced to fish their meals out of toilets. We've also bombed a wedding party... Things are going wrong, and if you can't see that things need to be fixed then there's no point in discussing any of this with you.

Why is it I who needs to answer your questions while you make no effort to answer any of mine. This is ridiculous that you can't respect my opinion in the least. I am disagreeing with facts and the rest of you disagree with "well, if you don't see it my way, then you must not be looking in the right places"

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Fri May 21, 2004 10:07 pm

so if we stop bin laden, we will rid the whole world of terroist? there will be no others to worry about?

skinsfaninroanoke · Post by **skinsfaninroanoke** » Fri May 21, 2004 10:08 pm

shhhh HS666... he is getting ready to pop.

Let's just leave him to the delusions - he might see through them some day.

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Fri May 21, 2004 10:11 pm

thank god for democracy. at least the clear headed can see through the certain "thick headed". if i'm not mistaken, the majority vote wins, and the losers whine about it the whole time?

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Fri May 21, 2004 11:04 pm

SF55 glad to hear you friend is doing well...wish I could say the say for your comments. I would never belittle them, the men and women of our Armed Forces fight for the very right for you to do so. Enjoy the blanket of freedom you sleep under tonight...as more people like you get into discision and policy making positions that freedom may vanish.

redskincity · Post by **redskincity** » Fri May 21, 2004 11:17 pm

Support is the most important element in the military.

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Fri May 21, 2004 11:27 pm

Real mature guys, I'm dillusional because I interpret the facts differently, excellent tactic. Too bad you both look like intolerant, stubborn, jackasses. Whatever happened to respecting the opinions of others?

Anyway what are we doing to protect American freedom? We're trying to give freedom to the Iraqis here, while OUR freedoms are being severely curbed after 9/11!

You've all skirted around the issue of the operation in Iraq being fouled up (which it obviously has been, unless it was our intention to murder innocent people and assault the muslim religion among other acts of unmitigating cruelty). Instead you drone on and on twisting statements and trying to tell me what it is I currently believe (most of which you are saying I believe is total crap, maybe you guys should read a little better) and then telling me that I should believe exactly as you do, because if I don't then I support terrorism. I must have cranked my Delorian past 88 today, because I was under the impression we were a little more tolerant of other people's opinions nowadays.

What is so hard to understand about my position anyway? We aren't treading very lightly in Iraq and that's a mistake. We're going in and stomping on people who get in our way... obviously this is a poor way to conduct ourselves. Although it's a natural reaction the problems in the prison could have been prevented. Yes, these prisoners were armed fighters at one time, but they obviously surrendered. How are we supposed to compell others to surrender and start accepting our new government there if we're assaulting their core values and making a mockery of their beliefs?!

DEHog, you completely misunderstand me if you think I want to end freedom for everyone. It's ridiculous to even imply such nonsense. It's obvious that we cannot pull out of Iraq now, we are far, far past the point of no return, but we need to start conducting this war better, and our soldiers need to start conducting themselves better. No more bullying the Iraqi citizens, no more torturing prisoners, no more bombing with shoddy intel... This operation needs to be fixed up, and pronto. Were I in a position to make the decisions, that's exactly what would happen, and I certainly fail to see how THAT would make freedom vanish.

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Fri May 21, 2004 11:44 pm

nazifan55 wrote:Anyway what are we doing to protect American freedom? We're trying to give freedom to the Iraqis here, while OUR freedoms are being severely curbed after 9/11!

what am i doing?..... everything i can. i just opted 8 months ago to add a terrorism clause in all the insurance i have on my 4 employees(workers comp, general liability, and car insurance). it costs me about $1800 a year to carry it. if for some strange reason, my employees were hurt or killed at work because of a terrorist act, their families would at least receive some compensation. this only happened after the 9/11 attacks, which were again, an attack on OUR freedoms. this insurance option didn't happen overnite, for no reason at all. they didn't even exist until the 9/11 attacks. but maybe we should just let it slide, and go on about our merry way.... while i'm not out fighting the war, this is what i can personally contribute to the well being of my employees. what are you doing besides bashing everything thats going on? and its all because there are still a number of terrorist out there at large. it affects all of us, wether you want to admit it or not........

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Fri May 21, 2004 11:59 pm

Yes, these prisoners were armed fighters at one time, but they obviously surrendered. How are we supposed to compell others to surrender and start accepting our new government there if we're assaulting their core values and making a mockery of their beliefs?!

you were whining about "world politics" way before any of the torture stories came out....

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Sat May 22, 2004 12:33 am

hailskins666 wrote:
nazifan55 wrote:Anyway what are we doing to protect American freedom? We're trying to give freedom to the Iraqis here, while OUR freedoms are being severely curbed after 9/11!
what am i doing?..... everything i can. i just opted 8 months ago to add a terrorism clause in all the insurance i have on my 4 employees(workers comp, general liability, and car insurance). it costs me about $1800 a year to carry it. if for some strange reason, my employees were hurt or killed at work because of a terrorist act, their families would at least receive some compensation. this only happened after the 9/11 attacks, which were again, an attack on OUR freedoms. this insurance option didn't happen overnite, for no reason at all. they didn't even exist until the 9/11 attacks. but maybe we should just let it slide, and go on about our merry way.... while i'm not out fighting the war, this is what i can personally contribute to the well being of my employees. what are you doing besides bashing everything thats going on? and its all because there are still a number of terrorist out there at large. it affects all of us, wether you want to admit it or not........

How exactly does being against an invasion make me a Nazi? How does the call for respecting human rights and religious freedom make me a Nazi??

This post makes no sense whatsoever and relates to none of my views on the subject whatsoever... Bashing EVERYTHING going on? Hardly, but I do have a problem with soldiers committing cold blooded murder and carrying out religious genocide.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Sat May 22, 2004 6:49 am

This post makes no sense whatsoever and relates to none of my views on the subject whatsoever... Bashing EVERYTHING going on? Hardly, but I do have a problem with soldiers committing cold blooded murder and carrying out religious genocide.

I disagree, SF55. hs666 is telling us how he personally is supporting freedom on this side of the Atlantic (keeping his employees from having to fear yet another aspect of terrorist attacks) and how much it's costing him as a businessman.

2nd, and you can easily prove me wrong on this one because I haven't been reading that closely--but when did someone call you a Nazi for your beliefs against terrorism? Let's be careful with our terms here (again, I apologize if someone did); but before I read the statement that the Constitution and Declaration of Independence were "liberal" documents. . .

And enough about the one wedding situation. It was a mistake, not cold-blooded murder. It was tragic, but it gets harder to view it as such the more you reference it. I'm guessing you felt like your argument that the accidental killing of 40 at a wedding party was getting weaker the more it was used, so we heard about the muder of 40, murder of civilians, etc. and now we've arrived at "cold-blooded murder." Before this becomes "purposefully inhumane and tortuous destruction (in a most cold-blooded manner) of a couldn't-be-more-peaceful group of wide-eyed women and children" kind of thing, let's just be careful with what we're saying. (Myself included, I'll be looking into this story since I hadn't heard of it).

Another mistake: Abu Gharib prison abuse. The actions of a few solidiers are being brought to justice as we speak (and, for perspective, Scot Peterson has yet to go on trial, so don't think our military isn't on top of this). Everyone that should have did apologize and are working to correct the situation.

Tell me what else it is, in leiu of all the amazing things that have happened there (I can give you some articles if you'd like, mostly written by solidiers themselves), that make this such a "bad" situation for us. Those 2 examples are just overused now--the killing of 40 (and, by the by, I'll check up on that one to make sure what you're saying is accurate, so right now even that's in suspicion in my mind) and Abu Gharib just aren't that epic.