The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:George Allen is the coach who ran Larry Brown 400 times in 14 games when he had Sonny and Charlie Taylor, Jerry Smith, Roy Jefferson, and Charlie Harraway as receivers.

Sonny would throw for 6,000 yards in today's passing league. I like what Cousins is doing but he's not even on the same field as Sonny yet.

B&G, I think one big difference is Cousins wants a high percentage completion and Sonny was more a gun slinger. Regardless, we both can remember when it was 3rd and 5+ and everyone new the ball was going to Jerry Smith and it couldn't be stopped. Cousins needs to master this.

It's early yet - Cousins is doing what he has to do to make himself worthy of a huge contract - this is today's NFL - Billy, Sonny and even Joe were only interested in making the playoffs and having a shot at the Super Bowl - a little bit like what Tom, Ben, Eli, Drew and others are doing today - then you get to the Osweillers, the Cousins and the other QBs - they want the $ and then they'll look at the team goals - I remember when you could have a drink in DC & see these guys at the bar - ask George Starke about the Childe Harold

Cousins is a good NFL QB but it's hard to imagine we'll EVER think about comparing him to the great QBs of a few decades ago

Deadskins wrote:

riggofan wrote:Cousins pretty much has to have one of these 300+ 2TDs no pick games every week to even have a chance to win.

No he doesn't. If he hits just a couple of the short-armers he threw Sunday, we win that game.

Like riggofan said, he needs to have perfect 300+ yards 2-3 TD's to win games.

If the defense could hold a team to 20 points or fewer, we win that game too.

SKINS#1 wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:George Allen is the coach who ran Larry Brown 400 times in 14 games when he had Sonny and Charlie Taylor, Jerry Smith, Roy Jefferson, and Charlie Harraway as receivers.

Sonny would throw for 6,000 yards in today's passing league. I like what Cousins is doing but he's not even on the same field as Sonny yet.

B&G, I think one big difference is Cousins wants a high percentage completion and Sonny was more a gun slinger. Regardless, we both can remember when it was 3rd and 5+ and everyone new the ball was going to Jerry Smith and it couldn't be stopped. Cousins needs to master this.

I dunno. I'm a huge Sonny fan, but I don't completely buy these generational comparisons. Not just that the game is so different, but the players, their size, speed and athleticism has far surpassed anything that was on the field in 1970. Sonny Jurgensen was 5'11" 200 lbs. How would he even stay alive in "today's passing league" much less throw for 6,000 yards?

are you kidding me

Well "decades" is actually right considering the definition. lol.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

riggofan wrote:Cousins pretty much has to have one of these 300+ 2TDs no pick games every week to even have a chance to win.

No he doesn't. If he hits just a couple of the short-armers he threw Sunday, we win that game.

Like riggofan said, he needs to have perfect 300+ yards 2-3 TD's to win games.

If the defense could hold a team to 20 points or fewer, we win that game too.

Only 3 teams have scored more than 27 point on us this season. We just need to do a better job of converting in the red-zone, and we would win a lot more games.

SkinsJock wrote:are you kidding me

You think I'm kidding to say that NFL players today are physically different than they were 50 years ago?


Hall of Famer Wilbur “Pete” Henry, aka “Fats,” was one of the NFL’s largest and most dominant linemen in the 1920s at 5 feet 11 inches and 245 pounds, but would be dwarfed by present-day players such as 6 foot 4 inch, 318-pound New Orleans guard Jahri Evans. (Pro Football Hall of Fame) (AP Photo/Paul Jasienski)

Evolution of the NFL Player
http://operations.nfl.com/the-players/e ... fl-player/

in terms of size, the “Hogs” wouldn’t look that imposing today. Even Jacoby — so imposing that one writer said of him, “Andre the Giant wears his hand-me-downs” — wouldn’t stand out. By 2013, the median weight for NFL guards and tackles had reached 310 pounds, according to one analysis. That means over half weigh more than Jacoby did.

One of the smallest Hogs — Hall of Famer Russ Grimm — stood 6 feet 3 inches and weighed 273 pounds. Today, he would be one of the league’s smallest guards.

Read more. yap less.

Cousins is really good but if Sonny were our QB this season we'd be leading the NFC East & we would not be #31 in Red Zone scoring

if someone gave Sonny a play that he knew was not going to work, he would not have run that play

I always found it weird that there really aren't that many big WRs. We've not had one for years.

Hell, I'm 6 feet tall and was pretty fast and considered quick in my day. You'd think there'd be more guys at least that big playing WR in the NFL.

Having said that, Charley Taylor holds up now easily at 6'3" 210. He'd easily be our best WR.

Even the fade would work with him !

Jurgy would be Drew Brees. He'd do just fine.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:are you kidding me

You think I'm kidding to say that NFL players today are physically different than they were 50 years ago? Read more. yap less.

comparing Cousins and Sonny is laughable - & stick your 'yap less' wherever it fits

DarthMonk wrote:I always found it weird that there really aren't that many big WRs. We've not had one for years.
Having said that, Charley Taylor holds up now easily at 6'3" 210. He'd easily be our best WR. Even the fade would work with him !

Jurgy would be Drew Brees. He'd do just fine.

Sonny would not only make the fade work ... he would also be able to help Cousins be a better QB than he is

SkinsJock wrote:comparing Cousins and Sonny is laughable - & stick your 'yap less' wherever it fits

I didn't compare Cousins and Sonny at all.

SkinsJock wrote:Sonny would not only make the fade work ...

That I'd agree with!

I agree that comparisons from the past to the present, especially in the NFL, are like apples to oranges ...

however, Sonny and many of the players from the past are better at what they did than many of the 'wonder athletes' in the NFL today

if some of those guys were able to play in the NFL today, they would still be in the HOF - not sure many of today's prima donnas would even make the roster back in the day - can you imagine LeRibeus competing for a spot with George Starke's hogs

Cousins is a very good QB in today's NFL but Sonny would have been just as good today as he was back then

SkinsJock wrote:Cousins is really good but if Sonny were our QB this season we'd be leading the NFC East & we would not be #31 in Red Zone scoring

If Sonny were our QB this season, he'd need hip replacement surgery the first time he got hit.

Deadskins wrote:If Sonny were our QB this season, he'd need hip replacement surgery the first time he got hit.

Deadskins wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Cousins is really good but if Sonny were our QB this season we'd be leading the NFC East & we would not be #31 in Red Zone scoring

If Sonny were our QB this season, he'd need hip replacement surgery the first time he got hit.

Sonny wasn't all that mobile ... but can you imagine him with these weapons

Deadskins wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Cousins is really good but if Sonny were our QB this season we'd be leading the NFC East & we would not be #31 in Red Zone scoring

If Sonny were our QB this season, he'd need hip replacement surgery the first time he got hit.

Probably true.

SkinsJock wrote:I agree that comparisons from the past to the present, especially in the NFL, are like apples to oranges ...

however, Sonny and many of the players from the past are better at what they did than many of the 'wonder athletes' in the NFL today

if some of those guys were able to play in the NFL today, they would still be in the HOF - not sure many of today's prima donnas would even make the roster back in the day - can you imagine LeRibeus competing for a spot with George Starke's hogs

Cousins is a very good QB in today's NFL but Sonny would have been just as good today as he was back then

So if you agree that its apples to oranges (which it is) how can you say "he would have been just as good today as he was back then"?

Again. I'm not comparing Sonny to Cousins at all. I was just disagreeing that Sonny would pass for x yards if he were playing today. I don't care how many weapons Sonny would have in this offense. He would be an undersized QB, facing players who are bigger, faster and more professionally prepared than anybody he ever faced in 1968. I'm sorry but if you time traveled Sonny from 1970 to 2016 and threw him in a game, he would get murdered.

That's not a knock on Sonny at all who was without a doubt one of the greatest quarterbacks of his era.

for the most part the players and the game have changed dramatically - there are some players from both the 70s-90s and the current era that could have played well (and some that would still have made the HOF) no matter when they played

Sonny would have found a way

Cousins is a good NFL QB - he's the best we've had this century but that's not saying much

Cousins has not earned the right to be considered a better QB than any who have won Super Bowls wearing B&G

SkinsJock wrote:for the most part the players and the game have changed dramatically - there are some players from both the 70s-90s and the current era that could have played well (and some that would still have made the HOF) no matter when they played

Sonny would have found a way

Let me fix that post for you:

riggofan wrote:He would be an undersized QB, facing players who are bigger, faster and more professionally prepared than anybody he ever faced in 1968. I'm sorry but if you time traveled Sonny from 1970 to 2016 and threw him in a game, he would get murdered.

That's not a knock on Sonny at all who was without a doubt one of the greatest quarterbacks of his era.

I generally agree with you on the "players evolve" thing.

With regards to Sonny - I say if you time traveled Sonny in February and gave him an off-season with our trainers and Gruden he'd be as good Drew Brees - the undersized guy in New Orleans.

I've heard Czaban say Pete Maravich couldn't play today. Bull. He couldn't do what Tony Parker has been doing for years?

Every generation has several players who could hold up in the next few generations. I think Sonny was one of them.

Kirk, the best Redskin in decades, bagged another win and marched closer to breaking the franchise all time passing record. He should break the record next game and if he does he will be breaking the all time record he set last season, his first season starting. Two record years in a row and in his first two seasons. Just imagine what he'll accomplish over the nxt 10 years!

As Skins fans we are accustom to other teams having successful franchise QBs and hopelessly pining for one. Now we have one of the brightest star QBs in the league and many fans are in a state of confused disbelief. I get it you didn't expect it to really finally happen and certainly not with Kirk. The other one was cast to be the one and then after a flash in the pan few weeks as a rookie he broke your heart. You don't want to hope again but it is time to believe your eyes and let go of your doubts and fears because Kirk's the one. The best Skin in decades whether you comprehend it or not.

'Cousins is the best Redskin in decades' ... well, possibly this century - that's debatable

Cousins is certainly NOT better than many Redskins who played in the 80s and 90s - and that's NOT debatable



Cousins has done a great job - hopefully he's reasonable about what he should get paid so we can keep enjoying watching him play for the Redskins for many years

If the FO decides not to pay him what the market value is ($25M-$30M), that would be a shame, but it's absolutely the right decision

we'll still be here