The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

When we last saw Griffin his QB talents inventory where:

Positives:

1. Good strong throwing arm with sufficient accuracy for the NFL.

2. Better than required for QB straight ahead spreed.


Negatives:

1. Doesn't read defenses after 4 years in the league

2. Can't accurately call protections because he can't read defenses and understand what and how to call the necessary protections.

3. Griffin fails to effectively shift and move within a pocket because of his inability to read defenses and understand how to use the pocket in the protection that was called against the defense they are facing.

4. Is unable to consistently take the right drop. Fails to appreciate the importance of dropping the required depth and this and sets his OL up for failure.

5. Unable to scan the field and go through his route tree fast enough to decide and throw in tempo to the open receivers.

6. Holds the ball to too long and gets sacked too frequently.

7. While a fast runner Griffin no longer has exceptional lateral quickness to help him elude rusher and subjects him self to too many hits when he rolls out.

8. Judging by history is frail and injury prone.

9. Poor leader. Griffin absorbs praise and deflects criticism blaming others when things don't go well for him. Cousins does the opposite he deflects praise and takes responsibility for mistakes. Maybe Griffin watched Cousins do that this season and learned from an effective team leader.


I don't know if Griffin can't accept coaching or he just is unable to absorb the subject matter and apply it. I tend to believe the latter because if he had the raw ability to learn how to process the information field I think we would have seen some progress from him whether he worked well with coaches or not after 4 years he'd have made SOME progress.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:it's NOT 'utterly ridiculous' to think that Scot let Griffin go because he felt that Griffin did not fit in here and not because he can't play QB - PLUS - Both Gruden ad Scot indicated otherwise recently as well

It's called "coach speak". And it is utterly ridiculous to suggest that a team would let go a solid NFL QB simply because he doesn't "fit". If there was any semblance of hope or improvement for him, as seen by Scot, he'd still be on the roster. Or at the very least, they would have released him and attempted to resign him to a team friendly deal. The fact that no one other than Cleveland showed interest in signing him should speak volumes.

"utterly ridiculous" ... really? - get a grip - you may not agree but IMO Griffin's ability or lack of talent as a QB did not factor into the decision
after all that happened here there was no way that the Redskins were keeping Griffin or that he might even want to be here

IMO Hue has a little bit more of an idea about what Griffin offers as a QB than you do - we shall see ....

you may be right about how many clubs might have been interested in Griffin - the fact remains, you and a few others here think that Griffin is not capable of playing QB in the NFL - Griffin went to perhaps the one franchise where he might even compete for a starting job - whether he wins the starting job or not, if he shows that he can play QB in the NFL proves you and those others wrong ...

btw - where on earth did you get the idea that anyone considers Griffin "a solid NFL QB"?

and thanks for keeping the dialogue going

SkinsJock wrote:"utterly ridiculous" ... really? - get a grip - you may not agree but IMO Griffin's ability or lack of talent as a QB did not factor into the decision
after all that happened here there was no way that the Redskins were keeping Griffin or that he might even want to be here

The only thing that "happened here" was that Griffin got benched. Repeatedly. I appreciate your loyalty to the guy, but I don't understand the point you're trying to argue. He didn't get benched like Manziel because he's a d-bag or something. He got benched because he wasn't performing at the QB position.

I guess you could argue that the Redskins want a pocket QB and Griffin clearly isn't that.

Its nice that the team said positive things about him on the way out the door. I certainly wouldn't hang my hat on any of that.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:"utterly ridiculous" ... really? - get a grip - you may not agree but IMO Griffin's ability or lack of talent as a QB did not factor into the decision
after all that happened here there was no way that the Redskins were keeping Griffin or that he might even want to be here

The only thing that "happened here" was that Griffin got benched. Repeatedly. I appreciate your loyalty to the guy, but I don't understand the point you're trying to argue. He didn't get benched like Manziel because he's a d-bag or something. He got benched because he wasn't performing at the QB position. I guess you could argue that the Redskins want a pocket QB and Griffin clearly isn't that. Its nice that the team said positive things about him on the way out the door. I certainly wouldn't hang my hat on any of that.

I'm not 'defending' Griffin and I'm not arguing per se - I just think that despite all that's happened Griffin can still play QB in the NFL

what happened here, as he recently stated, was mainly his fault - that's done

some here think Griffin is not capable of playing QB in the NFL - yet he got $15M from the Browns because Hue, for 1, thinks he can

SkinsJock wrote:he got $15M from the Browns because Hue, for 1, thinks he can

No, he doesn't. He thinks he needed a starting QB until they can draft one. I'll bet you $1000.00 RGIII doesn't start 16 games this season.

SkinsJock wrote:I'm not 'defending' Griffin and I'm not arguing per se - I just think that despite all that's happened Griffin can still play QB in the NFL

Right on. Like you wrote, he's getting paid this year to play QB for the Browns. We'll find out in a few months if he can be any good at it again or not.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:he got $15M from the Browns because Hue, for 1, thinks he can

No, he doesn't. He thinks he needed a starting QB until they can draft one. I'll bet you $1000.00 RGIII doesn't start 16 games this season.

OK - I'm game - I'm willing to bet that Griffin will play QB in the NFL - how much do you want to bet that he does not?

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I'm not 'defending' Griffin and I'm not arguing per se - I just think that despite all that's happened Griffin can still play QB in the NFL

Right on. Like you wrote, he's getting paid this year to play QB for the Browns.
We'll find out in a few months if he can be any good at it again or not.

be great if he can play well - I just think he can still play QB - I'm not sure he's very good but I think he'll show he's better than most think

SkinsJock wrote:I just think he can still play QB

My God you're going to be insufferable all year long every time the Browns win and Cousins makes a mistake.

For a side bet, I'm willing to wager you'll refer to Kirk as "Captain Pick" repeatedly after our second loss.

SkinsJock wrote:

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I'm not 'defending' Griffin and I'm not arguing per se - I just think that despite all that's happened Griffin can still play QB in the NFL

Right on. Like you wrote, he's getting paid this year to play QB for the Browns.
We'll find out in a few months if he can be any good at it again or not.

be great if he can play well - I just think he can still play QB - I'm not sure he's very good but I think he'll show he's better than most think

Taking snaps from center does not equal playing quarterback. Teams have figured out read-option. It's not known if Griffin can even move laterally... which is pretty damned important for a read option quarterback. Griffin has shown no ability to function competently from the pocket, read defenses, set blocking assignments, feel pressure...
Sorry... I would like him to succeed... just don't expect it...

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:unlike some here, I just think Griffin can still play QB

My God you're going to be insufferable all year long every time the Browns win and Cousins makes a mistake.

For a side bet, I'm willing to wager you'll refer to Kirk as "Captain Pick" repeatedly after our second loss.

I am going to have a lot of fun here if Griffin proves that he can still play QB at a decent level - not a great place to go though ...

I hope that Cousins improves as much this season as he did last season - I doubt it, but it would be great to see him become a really good QB & gets a huge contract - Cousins looks to me like he's not the turnover prone QB that he was - hopefully, he continues to improve



and thank you for continuing the dialogue ...

Countertrey wrote: Taking snaps from center does not equal playing quarterback. Teams have figured out read-option. It's not known if Griffin can even move laterally, which is pretty damned important for a read option quarterback. Griffin has shown no ability to function competently from the pocket, read defenses, set blocking assignments, feel pressure. Sorry, I would like him to succeed, I just don't expect it

no worries - I'm certainly not expecting a lot and I could be totally wrong - I think that with all that's happened recently, this kid will respond

It has been a long layoff but I have a feeling he will show that he can play QB well again

some here are just over the top anti-Griffin because of all that has happened here and I'd like him to prove them wrong

seems like Shanahan isn't as down on Griffin as some might think ...

... based on an interview Shanahan gave with ESPN 980 in D.C., he and Griffin are kind of buddy-buddy these days, with Griffin calling Shanahan to thank the former coach for trying to get Griffin a job with the Rams. "I'd take him if I were you," Shanny says he told Fisher. The Rams didn't take Griffin (they're standing pat with Case Keenum - perhaps purposely slow playing the quarterback market). Neither did the Broncos. It was only when the Browns decided they weren't going to pay for Kaepernick in a trade and just sign Griffin did he find a home. And Shanahan gave the quarterback some advice about being patient. “You're going to struggle,” Shanahan said he told Griffin. “You've got some great talent and that comes in time, but you haven't been out there the last couple years. It will take some time, but be patient and go back to doing the things you did great and take advantage of it just like you did as a rookie, but be all in support of whoever's out there playing with you and have some fun.”

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I just think he can still play QB

My God you're going to be insufferable all year long every time the Browns win and Cousins makes a mistake. I'm willing to wager you'll refer to Kirk as "Captain Pick" repeatedly after our second loss.

unlike you and some others here, just because I want Griffin to play well it does not mean that I want Cousins to play badly ...

Cousins showed that he can play QB last season and I hope he continues to improve - I'd prefer that he does not sign a deal and goes out there this season and plays great and gets a huge contract - I doubt it happens because I think he signs but it would be great

SkinsJock wrote:seems like Shanahan isn't as down on Griffin as some might think ...

... based on an interview Shanahan gave with ESPN 980 in D.C., he and Griffin are kind of buddy-buddy these days, with Griffin calling Shanahan to thank the former coach for trying to get Griffin a job with the Rams. "I'd take him if I were you," Shanny says he told Fisher. The Rams didn't take Griffin (they're standing pat with Case Keenum - perhaps purposely slow playing the quarterback market). Neither did the Broncos. It was only when the Browns decided they weren't going to pay for Kaepernick in a trade and just sign Griffin did he find a home. And Shanahan gave the quarterback some advice about being patient. “You're going to struggle,” Shanahan said he told Griffin. “You've got some great talent and that comes in time, but you haven't been out there the last couple years. It will take some time, but be patient and go back to doing the things you did great and take advantage of it just like you did as a rookie, but be all in support of whoever's out there playing with you and have some fun.”

Basically the same thing Shanahan was telling him after his rookie year.

Countertrey wrote:Taking snaps from center does not equal playing quarterback. Teams have figured out read-option. It's not known if Griffin can even move laterally... which is pretty damned important for a read option quarterback. Griffin has shown no ability to function competently from the pocket, read defenses, set blocking assignments, feel pressure...
Sorry... I would like him to succeed... just don't expect it...

I would think Jackson will come up with a scheme that Griffin might have some success with. There's just no reason at this point to think you can drop him back to pass from the pocket.

Personally though, I'm less optimistic about Griffin's ability to stay healthy than his ability to impact a game. And playing on a bad team is only going to exacerbate that.

I also think that Griffin's biggest hurdle is to be able to find a way to play QB without getting injured and while he has an opportunity to start with the Browns, they do not seem to have much of an O line ...

SkinsJock wrote:I also think that Griffin's biggest hurdle is to be able to find a way to play QB without getting injured and while he has an opportunity to start with the Browns, they do not seem to have much of an O line ...

My thoughts exactly, man. It just seems like the kind of team where the QB is going to have to do so much to keep them in games. Knowing the type of guy Griffin is and how much he will want to prove himself, its not hard to envision him getting hurt trying to win a game on his own.

I don't know. I hope it doesn't go down like that for him, just don't feel like Cleveland was the best landing spot.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I think that Griffin's biggest hurdle is to play QB without getting injured - while he has an opportunity to start with the Browns, I'm not sure he made the best choice, given that he most likely needs time

My thoughts exactly, man. It just seems like the kind of team where the QB is going to have to do so much to keep them in games. Knowing the type of guy Griffin is and how much he will want to prove himself, its not hard to envision him getting hurt trying to win a game on his own.
I don't know. I hope it doesn't go down like that for him, just don't feel like Cleveland was the best landing spot.

I agree - maybe his best opportunity to be starting QB but it's not a good place for him to prove the doubters wrong