Redskins @ Smeagols postgame

[TexasCowboy]

This news makes it a very Happy New Year for NY, Washington and Dallas
knowing these clowns are headed right back to the NFC East basement for
years to come - The E-Girls SUCK

[riggofan]

This news makes it a very Happy New Year for NY, Washington and Dallas
knowing these clowns are headed right back to the NFC East basement for
years to come - The E-Girls SUCK

They are a mess. Kelly completely wrecked that team.

[Chris Luva Luva]

I'm sad he got fired. There's a possibility that a good coach will be hired.

[riggofan]

Andy Reid's very good year just got better.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Andy Reid's very good year just got better.

I've always been an Andy Reid fan. I hope he wins a ring at the very least. Philly fans didn't deserve him. They lauded his departure and praised Kelly. They praised him for the smear campaign against Jackson. They deserve everything they've received. I love it.

[riggofan]

Andy Reid's very good year just got better.

I've always been an Andy Reid fan. I hope he wins a ring at the very least. Philly fans didn't deserve him. They lauded his departure and praised Kelly. They praised him for the smear campaign against Jackson. They deserve everything they've received. I love it.

Feel EXACTLY the same way. I told my Eagles fan friends they didn't know how good they had it with Reid and would regret running him out of town. I know they were frustrated with not winning a super bowl, but that guy is a good coach and had them consistently a solid team.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Andy Reid's very good year just got better.

I've always been an Andy Reid fan. I hope he wins a ring at the very least. Philly fans didn't deserve him. They lauded his departure and praised Kelly. They praised him for the smear campaign against Jackson. They deserve everything they've received. I love it.

Feel EXACTLY the same way. I told my Eagles fan friends they didn't know how good they had it with Reid and would regret running him out of town. I know they were frustrated with not winning a super bowl, but that guy is a good coach and had them consistently a solid team.

Being a fan of this putrid franchise for so long has made me appreciate the simple things. Jay/Scot fielded a competitive team this year. Win or lose, they at least tried. And looked somewhat competent doing it. That speaks volumes of where we've been and attempting to come up from. But this has been an enjoyable year for me, maybe more so than 2012.

[Deadskins]

Being a fan of this putrid franchise for so long has made me appreciate the simple things. Jay/Scot fielded a competitive team this year. Win or lose, they at least tried. And looked somewhat competent doing it. That speaks volumes of where we've been and attempting to come up from. But this has been an enjoyable year for me, maybe more so than 2012.

Just two weeks ago you wanted Gruden's head.

[DEHog]

I'm sad he got fired. There's a possibility that a good coach will be hired.

Yea, I thought the same thing Chris. There are some good working parts on that team that a new coach can work with.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Being a fan of this putrid franchise for so long has made me appreciate the simple things. Jay/Scot fielded a competitive team this year. Win or lose, they at least tried. And looked somewhat competent doing it. That speaks volumes of where we've been and attempting to come up from. But this has been an enjoyable year for me, maybe more so than 2012.

Just two weeks ago you wanted Gruden's head.

And in that very thread I stated a couple of things.
1. How badly I wanted to be proven wrong.
2. Appreciation of the turn in fortune. Some of my gripes were warranted but also recently addressed. Such as taking the reigns off of Kirk, as I believed he and Jay could get more from this offense. They've done just that.

My angst was that I didn't see enough growth offensively, he shut me up. I'm grateful for it and not too prideful too admit it.

[TexasCowboy]

This news makes it a very Happy New Year for NY, Washington and Dallas
knowing these clowns are headed right back to the NFC East basement for
years to come - The E-Girls SUCK

They are a mess. Kelly completely wrecked that team.

Indeed Andy Reid I am sure is having a hearty laugh at the trainwreck
he's caused undoing all he brought in? from players to coaches and
others I know this is going to be an awesome new year knowing they
will suck for years to come

[Deadskins]

Being a fan of this putrid franchise for so long has made me appreciate the simple things. Jay/Scot fielded a competitive team this year. Win or lose, they at least tried. And looked somewhat competent doing it. That speaks volumes of where we've been and attempting to come up from. But this has been an enjoyable year for me, maybe more so than 2012.

Just two weeks ago you wanted Gruden's head.

And in that very thread I stated a couple of things.
1. How badly I wanted to be proven wrong.
2. Appreciation of the turn in fortune. Some of my gripes were warranted but also recently addressed. Such as taking the reigns off of Kirk, as I believed he and Jay could get more from this offense. They've done just that.

My angst was that I didn't see enough growth offensively, he shut me up. I'm grateful for it and not too prideful too admit it.

I know, and I saw that in the other thread. What I was laughing at was you saying this year has been enjoyable for you, when that enjoyment started less than two weeks ago. You didn't seem to be enjoying it too much when you wrote the original post.

[Chris Luva Luva]

I know, and I saw that in the other thread. What I was laughing at was you saying this year has been enjoyable for you, when that enjoyment started less than two weeks ago. You didn't seem to be enjoying it too much when you wrote the original post.

That's far from the truth. This has overall been my most enjoyable season as a fan. The type of growth we've witnessed hasn't been seen b4. I was simply focusing my anger within the scope of that thread. Within that thread, I heaped praise on the GM, defensive coaching staff and players offensively/defensively.

[riggofan]

Being a fan of this putrid franchise for so long has made me appreciate the simple things. Jay/Scot fielded a competitive team this year. Win or lose, they at least tried. And looked somewhat competent doing it. That speaks volumes of where we've been and attempting to come up from. But this has been an enjoyable year for me, maybe more so than 2012.

I'm with you 100%. Its kind of sad that "competent" is such a great achievement for this team, but I will take it. Maybe next year we can add "consistent" to "competent" and we might be on to something.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Being a fan of this putrid franchise for so long has made me appreciate the simple things. Jay/Scot fielded a competitive team this year. Win or lose, they at least tried. And looked somewhat competent doing it. That speaks volumes of where we've been and attempting to come up from. But this has been an enjoyable year for me, maybe more so than 2012.

I'm with you 100%. Its kind of sad that "competent" is such a great achievement for this team, but I will take it. Maybe next year we can add "consistent" to "competent" and we might be on to something.

We are on to something now... I'm all for being rational but you can't ignore what they've accomplished. They won the division. They've excelled despite being tops in the league in IR designations. Look no further than Baltimore, a team that many on this forum has envied for their success and GM. Even before they lost flacco, they fell apart due to injury. They have a SB winning coach up there. So, let's not discredit this team too much, while maintaining a level of rationality in our praise.

[markshark84]

Just two weeks ago you wanted Gruden's head.

And in that very thread I stated a couple of things.
1. How badly I wanted to be proven wrong.
2. Appreciation of the turn in fortune. Some of my gripes were warranted but also recently addressed. Such as taking the reigns off of Kirk, as I believed he and Jay could get more from this offense. They've done just that.

My angst was that I didn't see enough growth offensively, he shut me up. I'm grateful for it and not too prideful too admit it.

I know, and I saw that in the other thread. What I was laughing at was you saying this year has been enjoyable for you, when that enjoyment started less than two weeks ago. You didn't seem to be enjoying it too much when you wrote the original post.

I've got to say, I saw the irony in this also.

As far as CLL's #1 response above, that sounds likes those yelp reviews when people start with "I really wanted to like this restaurant but....." --- that type of talk makes me just

That being said, it is nice to see a poster actually say they were flat out wrong. It's refreshing. CLL is a good poster. I'm giving him crap, but I hope he knows that it comes from love....

However, I am still waiting for CLL's response to my rebuttal from his "Gruden not getting Garcon involved enough" post........

[riggofan]

Being a fan of this putrid franchise for so long has made me appreciate the simple things. Jay/Scot fielded a competitive team this year. Win or lose, they at least tried. And looked somewhat competent doing it. That speaks volumes of where we've been and attempting to come up from. But this has been an enjoyable year for me, maybe more so than 2012.

Just two weeks ago you wanted Gruden's head.

And in that very thread I stated a couple of things.
1. How badly I wanted to be proven wrong.
2. Appreciation of the turn in fortune. Some of my gripes were warranted but also recently addressed. Such as taking the reigns off of Kirk, as I believed he and Jay could get more from this offense. They've done just that.

My angst was that I didn't see enough growth offensively, he shut me up. I'm grateful for it and not too prideful too admit it.

That's funny, man. And credit for owning it. I have to say though I didn't get that you were calling for Gruden's head in that thread. I took your point/question as: given everything that we had going up to that point, could we do better with someone other than Gruden?

I argued in favor of Gruden or at least in favor of patience. But I do think its still a legit question going into next year IMO. A good coach should be able to build on what has happened so far this year. Expectations are going to be much higher in 2016.

Seems like Gruden did a really good job correcting some of his mistakes from year one to this year. I'd like to see that trend continue. Most fans are happy to be proven wrong.

[Chris Luva Luva]

I've got to say, I saw the irony in this also.

As far as CLL's #1 response above, that sounds likes those yelp reviews when people start with "I really wanted to like this restaurant but....." --- that type of talk makes me just

That being said, it is nice to see a poster actually say they were flat out wrong. It's refreshing. CLL is a good poster. I'm giving him crap, but I hope he knows that it comes from love....

However, I am still waiting for CLL's response to my rebuttal from his "Gruden not getting Garcon involved enough" post........

At the time of my griping, he hadn't been that involved. Is that not true? Even now, he doesn't get involved early in games and not consistently. Kirk has been tossing him passes in crucial situations, but I'd say Garcon is far from being utilized effectively. Why that is, I don't claim to know. However, I'm happy to see the uptick.

[riggofan]

We are on to something now... I'm all for being rational but you can't ignore what they've accomplished. They won the division. They've excelled despite being tops in the league in IR designations. Look no further than Baltimore, a team that many on this forum has envied for their success and GM. Even before they lost flacco, they fell apart due to injury. They have a SB winning coach up there. So, let's not discredit this team too much, while maintaining a level of rationality in our praise.

I still don't quite know how they pulled that off. The injury list at the beginning of the season was insane. Two starting, experienced o-linemen. Both of our blocking TEs. An elite pass rusher. Multiple CBs including the #1. Missing our best WR for what eight weeks??? You're completely right that they deserve credit from top to bottom.

Not discrediting them at all for what they've accomplished. I'm just looking forward to having higher expectations for this team in the future.

[Chris Luva Luva]

That's funny, man. And credit for owning it. I have to say though I didn't get that you were calling for Gruden's head in that thread. I took your point/question as: given everything that we had going up to that point, could we do better with someone other than Gruden?

Yes. That was my overall point.

I argued in favor of Gruden or at least in favor of patience.

Yes you did.

But I do think its still a legit question going into next year IMO. A good coach should be able to build on what has happened so far this year. Expectations are going to be much higher in 2016.

I agree.

Seems like Gruden did a really good job correcting some of his mistakes from year one to this year. I'd like to see that trend continue. Most fans are happy to be proven wrong.

Well, it seems like it wasn't just Gruden. Sean McVay admitted that he essentially didn't trust Kirk fully. Jay recently came out and said that he neutered the offense early on cus the right side of the line was young. Then we had massive injuries in the interior of the line, which furthered the stalling of the offense.

Once he felt that everything gelled, and Kirk told Sean to stop holding him back... We landed where we are today. So I wasn't wrong for saying the offense was being held back, nor was I wrong about the offense being capable of more. I was in fact right, but I didn't have the whole story as to why. So it justifies the decisions but I also believe that he held them back for longer than he needed to. Kirk would agree with that sentiment.

[riggofan]

At the time of my griping, he hadn't been that involved. Is that not true? Even now, he doesn't get involved early in games and not consistently. Kirk has been tossing him passes in crucial situations, but I'd say Garcon is far from being utilized effectively. Why that is, I don't claim to know. However, I'm happy to see the uptick.

It would be interesting to see the details of how he's spreading the ball around. We see so many different WRs involved in the past few games. Its not just DJax, Garcon and Reed. I'll bet Grant, Ross, Crowder, Thomas and Thompson all had catches in the last game.

[Chris Luva Luva]

I still don't quite know how they pulled that off. The injury list at the beginning of the season was insane. Two starting, experienced o-linemen. Both of our blocking TEs. An elite pass rusher. Multiple CBs including the #1. Missing our best WR for what eight weeks??? You're completely right that they deserve credit from top to bottom.

Not discrediting them at all for what they've accomplished. I'm just looking forward to having higher expectations for this team in the future.

Right. That's why I disagree with the notion that I haven't been pleased with this team or this season. It all depends on what aspect we're discussing.

It would be interesting to see the details of how he's spreading the ball around. We see so many different WRs involved in the past few games. Its not just DJax, Garcon and Reed. I'll bet Grant, Ross, Crowder, Thomas and Thompson all had catches in the last game.

Grant has been a bit of a let down.

[riggofan]

Grant has been a bit of a let down.

He's definitely slipped.

See what I did there?

[DEHog]

Grant has been a bit of a let down.

He's definitely slipped.

See what I did there?

Stick to your day job Riggo!

[markshark84]

At the time of my griping, he hadn't been that involved. Is that not true? Even now, he doesn't get involved early in games and not consistently. Kirk has been tossing him passes in crucial situations, but I'd say Garcon is far from being utilized effectively. Why that is, I don't claim to know. However, I'm happy to see the uptick.

As far as getting Garcon involved early, I actually prefer the way Gruden designs it in that he tries to spread the ball around to create unpredictability and see what matchups or plays are most effective. In the current offensive climate, you can't stick to one guy or say "I'm going to get XYZ at least 15 targets today no matter what". DEFs are too good for that and they will scheme quite effectively if they see a similar pattern in film. Gruden doesn't appear to "mandate targets" for anyone on the team, including Reed. I don't know the exact amount, but I'd say that he is at least the 2nd option on a very healthy percentage of his catches. IMHO, the day of isolating or using motion to open up a WR and mandating a number of targets for said WR are over. You see this in how DEFs adjusted to ATL when they saw Jones getting 15-20 targets a game. They adjusted. Same with how NE shut down the HOU OFF when they adjusted for Hopkins getting mandated targets.

Regardless, this is what I said at the time of the discussion (I just copied and pasted my previous response):
Not sure they aren't trying to utilize Garcon. Garcon is second on the team in targets (90) by only two behind Reed (92). Garcon and Reed each have approx. 25 more targets than the third highest player (Crowder).
Garcon is 31st in the league in targets at 90. Meanwhile, Garcon's YAC (121st) and total yards (51st) are closer on par with players that are hovering in the 60-70 targets range (when averaged). Gruden/the OC is/are giving him opportunities ----- Garcon is not taking advantage of them.
Personally, I don't care if he runs and hits like a truck if he can't catch, run for yards, and make plays. And Garcon is a very good WR, but he's having a mediocre season.

The above still holds true. Garcon averages more targets than anyone else outside of Reed.
Reed: 8.4
Garcon: 7
DJax: 5.4
Crowder: 4.7
Grant: 2.8

Garcon just hasn't made the most of his opportunities. They are still throwing him those 5-10 inside slants that he used to take off on and grab handfuls of YAC --- the only problem is he's getting caught or falling or otherwise just not executing them the way he used to. His YAC is horrendous this year and he's nearing the dreaded 30 years old. Against PHI, Garcon was targeted 12 times for 80 yards. Meanwhile, Cousins threw 46 times for 365 yards. Against the "field" Garcon underperformed with a per target average of 1.5 yards less. Now, I have to say that fade in the endzone was unreal. But at the end of the day, I don't want to see Gruden "targeting" Garcon 12 times a game and only managing 80 yards. I prefer the way he has typically been doing it, in spreading it out and getting everyone involved. It makes for a more fluid and unpredictable OFF.