The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

riggofan wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:How many quarterbacks coming off one year contracts as a backup are offered five or six year contracts as a starter? I'm going to guess none.

Maybe so but Cousins isn't coming off a one year contract as a backup. He's finishing up the fourth year of his rookie contract as a starting QB with the team that drafted him.

Yes, I know, but the point was that quarterbacks who are given contracts longer than four years are typically regarded as franchise quarterbacks. I'm not convinced Cousins is regarded as such yet. I'd venture he doesn't get longer than a four year deal and he may not even want a deal of that length. He may be convinced he can earn more if he takes a one or two year deal and then renegotiates. On one hand, it's hard to turn down guaranteed money. On the other hand, he could cut off his nose to spite his face by taking far less than his future market value. It's a risk either way. But McCloughan is no dummy. He's not going to piss away cap space and mortgage the future unless he's 100% convinced Cousins is the guy. We have to trust that whatever he does is the right thing. As a few of the Redskins beat writers have mentioned, quarterbacks who can win games from behind don't grow on trees. I'm not a passer rating kind of guy as I think it's an overblown statistic much in the way PER is overblown in the NBA but when Cousins is the first Skins QB to post a perfect rating since 1950 or before there must be something to it. A lot of good quarterbacks have never done that.

riggofan wrote:Listening to Cousins' comments on his contract situation yesterday, I'm still not 100% convinced he would sign an extension today if it was offered. I won't be surprised at all if he wants to test the market in the off season.

+1 and why shouldn't he??

StorminMormon86 wrote:

riggofan wrote:Listening to Cousins' comments on his contract situation yesterday, I'm still not 100% convinced he would sign an extension today if it was offered. I won't be surprised at all if he wants to test the market in the off season.

I think he's just towing the old "preparing for so-and-so" line.

I believe C00ley was hinting around on the radio that if the Skins were to cut Griffin and offer Cousins a contract, he'd sign it immediately.

Not sure if he'd sign right away, but I do think RG plays into his decision.

StorminMormon86 wrote:I believe C00ley was hinting around on the radio that if the Skins were to cut Griffin and offer Cousins a contract, he'd sign it immediately.

From what I heard, (second hand), Griffin didn't figure into the equation. He likes it in DC, and likes Gruden. End of story.

riggofan wrote:

DEHog wrote:If the Skins don’t overpay for Cousins, some other team will. The big question is are the Skins prepared to walk away if the offers for Cousins gets crazy…Maybe that why RG is still on the team.

hah. We wouldn't pay $15m next year for Cousins but we would pay $16m for Griffin? I don't think so.

Rg3 is making a little north than 3 million. The 16 million is if he has a severe injury.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:when Cousins is the first Skins QB to post a perfect rating since 1950 or before there must be something to it.

Not exactly. He's the first to do it with 20 or more attempts.

riggofan wrote:Listening to Cousins' comments on his contract situation yesterday, I'm still not 100% convinced he would sign an extension today if it was offered. I won't be surprised at all if he wants to test the market in the off season.

Those have been my thoughts and I've expressed them as much here. If you look back and see it from Cousins' perspective, Cousins has always thought he was the best QB on the team and watched for a couple years as RGIII got chance after chance. It is a FACT that Snyder favors RGIII. If you were a QB would you want to play on a team where the owner perferred another guy? I wouldn't.

Now, if they cut RGIII outright, RGIII then moves on to another team, and they offer Cousins a big deal, then I could see him coming back. But based on the history here, I would be very surprised if Cousins doesn't test the waters.

markshark84 wrote:

riggofan wrote:Listening to Cousins' comments on his contract situation yesterday, I'm still not 100% convinced he would sign an extension today if it was offered. I won't be surprised at all if he wants to test the market in the off season.

Those have been my thoughts and I've expressed them as much here. If you look back and see it from Cousins' perspective, Cousins has always thought he was the best QB on the team and watched for a couple years as RGIII got chance after chance. It is a FACT that Snyder favors RGIII. If you were a QB would you want to play on a team where the owner perferred another guy? I wouldn't.

Now, if they cut RGIII outright, RGIII then moves on to another team, and they offer Cousins a big deal, then I could see him coming back. But based on the history here, I would be very surprised if Cousins doesn't test the waters.

OTOH, this is all the reason negotiations need to start NOW, to demonstrate a resolve to keep him. Waiting will likely suggest a lack of earnest interest. I cannot explain keeping Bob, unless there is some financial motivation. It's clear that he is considered an emergency quarterback only, at this point, and even then, with a few days notice.

Countertrey wrote:I cannot explain keeping Bob, unless there is some financial motivation. It's clear that he is considered an emergency quarterback only, at this point, and even then, with a few days notice.

We'll see Darrel Young at quarterback before we see RGIII at quarterback.

DEHog wrote:Here's are the 31 QB's in order of salary...I highlighted the teams that IMO "may" be looking for a starting QB...So maybe upwards of 8 or 9 teams (Redskins included) with interest in Cousins...it only takes two to drive the price up!!


Aaron Rodgers $22,000,000
Russell Wilson Seahawks $21,900,000
Ben Roethlisberger Steelers $21,850,000
Eli Manning Giants $21,000,000
Philip Rivers Chargers $20,812,500
Cam Newton Panthers $20,760,000
Matt Ryan Falcons $20,750,000
Joe Flacco Ravens $20,100,000
Drew Brees Saints $20,000,000
Ryan Tannehill Dolphins $19,250,000
Colin Kaepernick 49ers $19,000,000
Jay Cutler Bears $18,100,000
Tony Romo Cowboys $18,000,000
Matt Stafford Lions $17,666,667
Alex Smith Chiefs $17,000,000
Peyton Manning Broncos $17,000,000
Carson Palmer Cardinals $16,500,000
Andy Dalton Bengals $16,000,000
Sam Bradford Eagles $13,000,000
Nick Foles Rams $12,250,000
Tom Brady Patriots $9,000,000
Andrew Luck Colts $7,652,600
Jameis Winston Buccaneers $6,337,819
Marcus Mariota Titans $6,053,494
Brian Hoyer Texans $5,250,000
Blake Bortles Jaguars $5,163,701
Josh McCown Browns $4,666,667
Ryan Fitzpatrick Jets $3,625,000
Teddy Bridgewater Vikings $1,712,376
Derek Carr Raiders $$1,342,951
Tyrod Taylor Bills $1,116,667

Yup! Thats what I was talking about earlier in the post. Thanks for the detailed information!

EA7649 wrote:

riggofan wrote:

DEHog wrote:If the Skins don’t overpay for Cousins, some other team will. The big question is are the Skins prepared to walk away if the offers for Cousins gets crazy…Maybe that why RG is still on the team.

hah. We wouldn't pay $15m next year for Cousins but we would pay $16m for Griffin? I don't think so.

Rg3 is making a little north than 3 million. The 16 million is if he has a severe injury.

Isn't he making like 7+ this year, the 16 is for next year, he desn't need to get hurt to get it, he just needs to be on the roster...it's only guaranteed if he gets hurt.

DEHog wrote:

EA7649 wrote:Rg3 is making a little north than 3 million. The 16 million is if he has a severe injury.

Isn't he making like 7+ this year, the 16 is for next year, he desn't need to get hurt to get it, he just needs to be on the roster...it's only guaranteed if he gets hurt.

Yeah I don't know why so many fans are confused about this. RG3 is going to make $16m if he is on the roster next year end of story.

Countertrey wrote:

markshark84 wrote:Those have been my thoughts and I've expressed them as much here. If you look back and see it from Cousins' perspective, Cousins has always thought he was the best QB on the team and watched for a couple years as RGIII got chance after chance. It is a FACT that Snyder favors RGIII. If you were a QB would you want to play on a team where the owner perferred another guy? I wouldn't.

Now, if they cut RGIII outright, RGIII then moves on to another team, and they offer Cousins a big deal, then I could see him coming back. But based on the history here, I would be very surprised if Cousins doesn't test the waters.

OTOH, this is all the reason negotiations need to start NOW, to demonstrate a resolve to keep him. Waiting will likely suggest a lack of earnest interest. I cannot explain keeping Bob, unless there is some financial motivation. It's clear that he is considered an emergency quarterback only, at this point, and even then, with a few days notice.

I agree but the approach would need to be very cautious. After all, Cousins will want to know that RGIII will 100% not be back next year --- and if I were Cousins, I wouldn't sign until that HAPPENED (i.e., RGIII was released or cut). Meanwhile, RGIII will then know with certainty that he's gone. Danny boy may throw a childlike temper tantrum over the whole thing because RGIII is his little pet.

If I were the GM, I would absolutely tell Cousins that we want him back next year and ask him when he would like to begin negotiations (even asking what his "number expectations" are via his agent). Cousins holds all the cards here. I would expect MULTIPLE teams going after him this offseason. You can't force him into negotiations and Cousins is confident in himself enough to delay them with the expectation that he will continue to play very well the remainder of the season. Cousins is also not the type of guy that would ask Scot to release RGIII before the end of the year as a "good faith" showing --- that's not his style.

As far as the emergency QB quote --- we don't need an emergency QB, honestly. We have Cousins and McCoy. If both went down, we could do what the Cowboys or Texans did and hire someone off the street. RGIII doesn't need to be on the roster. I initially thought it was for tradebait, but the deadline has come and gone and there was absolutely no interest. What worries me is that he's here because he is Danny boy teachers pet. But that isn't "confirmed" so I 100% agree with you that I have no idea why he is still here at this point; perhaps it is a salary cap thing due to the $17M option.

Keim says that the majority of the people in the organization are behind Cousins going forward, but not everyone (Snyder, probably) is. He did say they are "getting there". And C00ley has said that Cousins would want to stay as long as he knew the Skins were committed to him, which would probably mean cutting Griffin to ensure that he knows there will be no threat of him being on the roster.

StorminMormon86 wrote:Keim says that the majority of the people in the organization are behind Cousins going forward, but not everyone (Snyder, probably) is. He did say they are "getting there". And C00ley has said that Cousins would want to stay as long as he knew the Skins were committed to him, which would probably mean cutting Griffin to ensure that he knows there will be no threat of him being on the roster.

I don't get why anybody is hung up on this possibility of Griffin and Cousins being on the roster next year. Its just not a possibility. They're not going to pay Cousins top $$ AND pay Griffin $16m. What team in the NFL has a $16m backup QB?

If the team offers Cousins a starting QB salary, its a foregone conclusion that Griffin is gone.

Countertrey wrote:

markshark84 wrote:

riggofan wrote:Listening to Cousins' comments on his contract situation yesterday, I'm still not 100% convinced he would sign an extension today if it was offered. I won't be surprised at all if he wants to test the market in the off season.

Those have been my thoughts and I've expressed them as much here. If you look back and see it from Cousins' perspective, Cousins has always thought he was the best QB on the team and watched for a couple years as RGIII got chance after chance. It is a FACT that Snyder favors RGIII. If you were a QB would you want to play on a team where the owner perferred another guy? I wouldn't.

Now, if they cut RGIII outright, RGIII then moves on to another team, and they offer Cousins a big deal, then I could see him coming back. But based on the history here, I would be very surprised if Cousins doesn't test the waters.

OTOH, this is all the reason negotiations need to start NOW, to demonstrate a resolve to keep him. Waiting will likely suggest a lack of earnest interest. I cannot explain keeping Bob, unless there is some financial motivation. It's clear that he is considered an emergency quarterback only, at this point, and even then, with a few days notice.

I think the reason for keeping Bob is to keep him from being signed by an upcoming opponent (division rivals especially) and revealing our playbook.

Ultimately you ask at this point is he a $70-100 million guy, or can he be that type of guy soon being that he is 27. If so then cool you re-sign him for that. To me he isn't awarded a benefit of the doubt to be patient on his potential because he's been in the league and have not proven anything. If he isn't a bonified top 15 qb then you have to look to the draft to set your franchise up to be in the best position and not settle to a 6,7,8 win team per year. You can say well there aren't any QBs in the draft but none of us are scouts so it is hard to determine what Scott will see.

Fool me once but not twice. I was patient with Jason Campbell and mediocrity while other higher upside qb's were passed up. Looks like the Raiders have a gem in Derek Carr that they got in the 2nd round and we passed him up fooling with RG3. But hopefully he can be our guy, prove me wrong and he sets the tone this year.

Countertrey wrote:

markshark84 wrote:

riggofan wrote:Listening to Cousins' comments on his contract situation yesterday, I'm still not 100% convinced he would sign an extension today if it was offered. I won't be surprised at all if he wants to test the market in the off season.

Those have been my thoughts and I've expressed them as much here. If you look back and see it from Cousins' perspective, Cousins has always thought he was the best QB on the team and watched for a couple years as RGIII got chance after chance. It is a FACT that Snyder favors RGIII. If you were a QB would you want to play on a team where the owner perferred another guy? I wouldn't.

Now, if they cut RGIII outright, RGIII then moves on to another team, and they offer Cousins a big deal, then I could see him coming back. But based on the history here, I would be very surprised if Cousins doesn't test the waters.

OTOH, this is all the reason negotiations need to start NOW, to demonstrate a resolve to keep him. Waiting will likely suggest a lack of earnest interest. I cannot explain keeping Bob, unless there is some financial motivation. It's clear that he is considered an emergency quarterback only, at this point, and even then, with a few days notice.

I agree with everything stated here and I also feel overpaying Cousins by 20, 30 or even 40% would be far less costly than losing him. None of us know how Cousins or his agent and trusted advisers think but why wouldn't Cousins feel like the red haired stepchild during all but the last couple of months? Snyder not only imposed Griffin on two coaching staffs to the detriment of Cousins but Snyder also has a close friendship with Griffin. I think there is going be a for lack of a description a "Snyder tax" factored into Cousins contract. Probably in form of a significantly larger guarantee than otherwise because not only has Snyder resisted Kirk's emergence until this season Dan Snyder turns over coaches every couple of years.

When Kirk signs his NEW contract, I will be the FIRST to ask him:

"YOU LIKE THAT..!!! YOU LIKE THAT.........!!!"

riggofan wrote:

DEHog wrote:

EA7649 wrote:Rg3 is making a little north than 3 million. The 16 million is if he has a severe injury.

Isn't he making like 7+ this year, the 16 is for next year, he desn't need to get hurt to get it, he just needs to be on the roster...it's only guaranteed if he gets hurt.

Yeah I don't know why so many fans are confused about this. RG3 is going to make $16m if he is on the roster next year end of story.

Okay than your previous point makes NO SENSE, UNLESS he is back in 2016 under that contract!!!

Last off-season the Redskins gave RG3 a team friendly deal. Basically if you play very well this season injuries are gone and your skills are back to very good, than great for ME and YOU. You will be back on the 2016 team making 16 million and we can negotiate for a longer deal.
If you get a serious injury, you probably won't be giving you a big contract ever again, and its our way to make sure you don't leave us (last off-season).
If we don't see you as a starter in our future (either you play bad, don't play, or we have someone else) we can cut you.

With the talk of Cousins contracts, its not a 1 year team friendly deal like RG3 was.

Make your case, because I don't see the point of saying

We wouldn't pay $15m next year for Cousins but we would pay $16m for Griffin? I don't think so.

More than likely he won't be back on the team. The only point I can comprehend from you is if, you are sarcastically saying a hypothetical with a previous comment suggesting RG3

EA7649 wrote:Okay than your previous point makes NO SENSE, UNLESS he is back in 2016 under that contract!!!

Sorry I don't completely understand what you are saying there or what point you don't think makes sense.

I agree with you completely that RG3 is not likely to be on the roster next season. My personal opinion is that there's like a 0.0001% chance of him being here.

riggofan wrote:

EA7649 wrote:Okay than your previous point makes NO SENSE, UNLESS he is back in 2016 under that contract!!!

Sorry I don't completely understand what you are saying there or what point you don't think makes sense.

I agree with you completely that RG3 is not likely to be on the roster next season. My personal opinion is that there's like a 0.0001% chance of him being here.

Bringing up 16 million. If he isn't on the team next season, then there is no point to bring up 16 million. IF its next season and he is on the team it would make more sense.

EA7649 wrote:Last off-season the Redskins gave RG3 a team friendly deal.

They didn't give him a deal at all. They picked up his 5th year option. It's not like RG3 had to sign or agree to anything. It's simply a part of the new CBA, that the team took advantage of.

Deadskins wrote:

EA7649 wrote:Last off-season the Redskins gave RG3 a team friendly deal.

They didn't give him a deal at all. They picked up his 5th year option. It's not like RG3 had to sign or agree to anything. It's simply a part of the new CBA, that the team took advantage of.

Okay then. Bringing him up his contract in this topic is EVEN more irrelevant.

No opinion, partly because I do not understand NFL contract rules and cap rules. I've finally figured out MLB, and have a good idea of how free agency actually works...qualifying offer, team control, typical budget...but the NFL is baffling.

However: it is strange to see Cousins go from "garbage player" to "must have" over three or four games.