Cousins Showing Progress Griffin Didn't Make

[PulpExposure]

In the end, I can't really pin any blame on the defense here. When the defense holds Atlanta to 19, and holds down Julio Jones (for the most part), they did their job. The offense though...sigh.

Fair point, man.

Offense has to score more points. I think in the first quarter they had the ball for like 11 minutes to Atlanta's 4. That's great, but we need to be up more than 7 points after that.

And regardless of who was at fault on the final INT, in all honesty, I don't think Cousins was sharp or consistent enough yesterday. He needs to be better.

Btw anybody watching that game yesterday think how nice it would be to have DJax out there? That's killing me personally.

The sad thing is you just can't count on DJax. He's played in 8 seasons, but a full season only twice.

He's like RG3 in that respect (but different in that he's actually, you know, good).

[StorminMormon86]

Honestly, I thought the Keenan Robinson missed tackle would have been a bigger discussion piece..... well, not really

That pissed me off more than the pick six in OT. We HAD the game right there.

[riggofan]

The sad thing is you just can't count on DJax. He's played in 8 seasons, but a full season only twice.

Five weeks with a hamstring just sucks. He's a legit weapon when he's on the field, but that's a lot of money to pay for a guy who can't stay on the field.

[OldSchool]

After seeing Mathew Stafford get benched today, I wonder how long Gruden rides with Kirk. At this rate he isn't only not winning us games, he's losing them. Games we've won were when the run game was smashing and he only had to be mediocre, and not turn the ball over (Lolz). If u stop the run and dare him to beat you, he won't.
The Griffin vs Grossman debate is tired.. but you gotta wonder, RGiii or Colt can not be any worse. Any better?

I dunno.. as much as I want to win, it pains me even more to see Kirk, who is supposedly the most knowledgeable qb and best at "reading the D", constantly miss wide open targets and make HORRIBLY inaccurate throws.

The ints happen I get that.. tips bobbles and what not. But more then half hit the db (or worse lb) square in the chest.

Colt turns it over too, but seems more accurate... Not a strong arm either. Rob will get killed taking sacks holding it to long but is more accurate (more often, but not super accurate) and has a cannon for the deep ball.

Tough week for coach, this subpar qb play has GOT to be frustrating

You'd rather play the guy that doesn't understand his playbook or read defenses and makes that OL look like crap because he gets sacked and hurt instead of the imperfect guy who understands all those things and helps his team advance and win. I get it and respectfully disagree.

[SkinsJock]

what I'm looking forward to is:
1) Captain Kirk being the starting QB here for the next 11 games
2) Captain Kirk proving to all of us that he's a good NFL QB
3) Captain Kirk proving that he does not deserve the reputation for throwing interceptions

anyone else have a lot of faith that those 3 things are going to happen .... anyone

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

I think if Kirk were even semi competent , then we win this game by a bunch (not to mention any previous games this year ) The D played fantastic, and they plabed to shut down the run, daring Kirk to beat them. Safe bet, as it turned out, he couldn't rise to the occasion..

Make excuses for the ints, then blame his receivers, ignore him making the wrong coverage Adjustments, then pretend he wasn't HORRIBLY inaccurate ALL game, imagine djax is the only reason his noodle arm can't throw it deep, and tell yourself all the wide open targets he missed are a mirage; because after all, I have rgiii as my avatar so I MUST wish the worst for everyone else... And delight in seeing Kirk implode and underperforming time and time again.
Unfortunately we've gotten so deep into this qb carousel that those defenders of Kirk are super hypocritical for bashing those who made similar arguments when Rgiii would disappoint.. and conversely excusing Kirks every short coming like he can do no evil. The kid is an Alex Smith at BEST, Sexy Rexy is much more likely... Favre?? Lmmfao yo!

I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he just isn't good man. Rgiii may very well be done, but I prefer his disappointing games over Kirks... Seems like they stung less? Idk. Screwed either way apparently.. ultimately there is no right answer, only wrong.

[HEROHAMO]

Kirk has a knack of throwing INTs. While I do blame him somewhat I also think Grudens playcalling is far too predictable.

While we do possess a good running game. I still think an audible to a pass play if you clearly see an 8 man front is necessary in fact it is a must.

Is Jay calling the offense? Or is Kirk allowed to audible if he sees fit?


Time and time again 1st down Atlanta lined up in 7 to 8 man fronts.
How about a playaction bomb deep to Garcon or Deep middle to Johnson? Geez loueez. Its was far too predictable.


If Kirk is indeed our guy. Then why not let him loose and allow him to audible out of a run play when necessary.

By no means am I excusing Kirk for his INTs. How can any of you argue on his behalf? He has thrown 2 or more picks in each of our losses. Stop it already. He needs to stop this.
I dont care if the reciever fell. He throws picks like its a normal thing to do. It has to stop. Pick six to end the game. Of course its his fault.
Brett Farve leads all time in Picks. However he also is top three in TDs all time as well.

Our time of possesion was terrible. Our defense was on the field twice as long as our offense. In fact more. Our defense played a heck of a game.

Very few teams can run against an 8 man front and succeed. So why not call a play that favors our offense? Just my two cents.

As a QB progresses in his career he should be able to recognize defensive formations and what plays are favorable to run. Basic but
the elite QBs do this. Brees, Brady, Manning, Rogers.... They all audible if necessary.

Maybe Kirk is not allowed I am not sure. However it has to be done. For progress to continue.

[DEHog]

Kirk has a knack of throwing INTs. While I do blame him somewhat I also think Grudens playcalling is far too predictable.

While we do possess a good running game. I still think an audible to a pass play if you clearly see an 8 man front is necessary in fact it is a must.

Is Jay calling the offense? Or is Kirk allowed to audible if he sees fit?


Time and time again 1st down Atlanta lined up in 7 to 8 man fronts.
How about a playaction bomb deep to Garcon or Deep middle to Johnson? Geez loueez. Its was far too predictable.


If Kirk is indeed our guy. Then why not let him loose and allow him to audible out of a run play when necessary.

By no means am I excusing Kirk for his INTs. How can any of you argue on his behalf? He has thrown 2 or more picks in each of our losses. Stop it already. He needs to stop this.
I dont care if the reciever fell. He throws picks like its a normal thing to do. It has to stop. Pick six to end the game. Of course its his fault.
Brett Farve leads all time in Picks. However he also is top three in TDs all time as well.

Our time of possesion was terrible. Our defense was on the field twice as long as our offense. In fact more. Our defense played a heck of a game.

Very few teams can run against an 8 man front and succeed. So why not call a play that favors our offense? Just my two cents.

As a QB progresses in his career he should be able to recognize defensive formations and what plays are favorable to run. Basic but
the elite QBs do this. Brees, Brady, Manning, Rogers.... They all audible if necessary.

Maybe Kirk is not allowed I am not sure. However it has to be done. For progress to continue.

Totally agree, although I wouldn’t use the word predictable…I’d call it conservative. Last night you saw a coach (with a backup QB) playing to win. Gruden is playing to not lose (a game and his job). As he admitted the third down bubble to Crowder was a bad call. Take the training wheel off Kirk already, if your coaching him that way…guess how’s he’s going to play??

[StorminMormon86]

There are at least 2 INTs this season that were clearly not on Cousins. The one jump ball thrown to Garcon was just an incredible play by the defender. The other was the pick six broken down by C00ley on the Redskins website, which said that had Grant not fallen down, that would've been a completion. Not every INT is on the QB. This year, there may have been 2 or 3 boneheaded INT's thrown by Kirk, and he does need to get better in that area, but stop trying to look at the stat line and say those were all his fault.

[riggofan]

what I'm looking forward to is:
1) Captain Kirk being the starting QB here for the next 11 games
2) Captain Kirk proving to all of us that he's a good NFL QB
3) Captain Kirk proving that he does not deserve the reputation for throwing interceptions

anyone else have a lot of faith that those 3 things are going to happen .... anyone

This is what some people do when "your guy" gets benched before the season even starts. Troll the rest of us trying to enjoy the season. Thanks.

[riggofan]

There are at least 2 INTs this season that were clearly not on Cousins. The one jump ball thrown to Garcon was just an incredible play by the defender. The other was the pick six broken down by C00ley on the Redskins website, which said that had Grant not fallen down, that would've been a completion. Not every INT is on the QB. This year, there may have been 2 or 3 boneheaded INT's thrown by Kirk, and he does need to get better in that area, but stop trying to look at the stat line and say those were all his fault.

Don't bother, man. We just need to quit responding to this trollish crap. Kirk Cousins, like every other QB in the league, is going to throw interceptions. And the bitter RGIII fans are going to pop up after every single one and say, "See? What did I tell you?"

I'm just embarrassed for these people. I'm not going to spend time arguing about a non-existent QB controversy while our team is playing decent football.

[StorminMormon86]

Don't bother, man. We just need to quit responding to this trollish crap. Kirk Cousins, like every other QB in the league, is going to throw interceptions. And the bitter RGIII fans are going to pop up after every single one and say, "See? What did I tell you?"

I'm just embarrassed for these people. I'm not going to spend time arguing about a non-existent QB controversy while our team is playing decent football.

What's amazing is how silent the anti-Kirk crowd was after Philadelphia's game.

[StorminMormon86]

I think C00ley reads these forums.

With regards to the pick six:

"There are three types of people judging this play, ok? Let's start with morons. Morons I'm fine with. If you think Ryan Grant has no chance to make the catch. Fine. You're right to your opinion. You're a moron. If you say Kirk Cousins just throws up a pick and you really truly believe that that's just a bad play by a quarterback, fine. You're a moron. You're wrong. But I'm fine with that. Second person, you have some kind of vendetta, or hope that Kirk Cousins fails for whatever reason, and you're arguing it for whatever reason. Or three, realistically what happened on the play."

Then he continued to break down the last pick. Here's a video link.

http://www.redskins.com/media-gallery/v ... 14048738=1

[oj]

what I'm looking forward to is:
1) Captain Kirk being the starting QB here for the next 11 games
2) Captain Kirk proving to all of us that he's a good NFL QB
3) Captain Kirk proving that he does not deserve the reputation for throwing interceptions

anyone else have a lot of faith that those 3 things are going to happen .... anyone

I, for one, do see exactly that happening. I see a 4th & 5th happening as well, he is improving his defensive reads and making the right decisions.

[SkinsJock]

I think Captain Kirk is playing better than I thought he could ... but, he's still not playing very well and he's still regarded as a QB that is prone to throwing interceptions ...

I'd love for the Redskins to let him go for the rest of the season so he can prove how good he is ....

Let's not rely on a strong run game and short passing game - let's start throwing the ball and showing off his arm strength and his ability to take apart a secondary

[mastdark81]

I feel if Cousins would have played better throughout the game we should have won, however I do blame this one on Gruden. The Redskins simply have a mediocre offensive coaching tandem in Gruden/McVay. These two are probably the youngest two out there, yet we see no innovation, rigidness in their play calling and predictability. On the interception at the end of the game, Kirk notes he has to go to his hot read. Maybe someone can explain why Kirk's hot read the hardest throw on the field? You would think it would be the shortest route or easiest throw right? Carrier is on the inside in the slot position and the exact same throw could have been made there and would have been a much easier one. Kirk is instructed to throw to the far outside on a hot read by coaches and that is simply idiotic to me. Notice that Carrier is the easier throw on the picture below.



Not even mad at the interception as I thought the game was lost earlier but check out this article fellas:

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/news/blog ... 6ce90a07a0

"Robert Alford played the role of hero on Sunday thanks to his game-winning interception, which came as a result of some astute guidance.
In the week leading up to Atlanta’s bout against Washington, defensive coordinator Richard Smith emphasized a small, albeit significant, detail to his cornerbacks: When Kirk Cousins goes into a three-step drop (and he will do that often), anticipate a quick throw to the outside if the WR runs a “thunder” seam route.

Robert Alford remembered this on Sunday when Cousins took a few strides back and looked his direction on the sixth play of overtime. He saw the QB eye a fast strike; he noticed his receiver, Ryan Grant, ran the route Smith discussed. So Alford turned his hips and broke towards the sideline."



I think these are tendencies that defensive coaches in the league pick up and one of the main reasons for our inconsistencies on offense. It has been only 5 games and I already know by watching the games that when Matt Jones come in the game he is running to the outside 85% of the time. I already know if there is a zero blitz Jordan Reed is instructed to slant inward. If I'm the defense I bait that specific play Thoughts?

[markshark84]

Yeah the Kirk haters have crawled out of their holes and are ready to attack!!!!!!

I'm not a hater, but I just don't think he's good enough. And to be clear, he's the best we have right now, but if he continues playing like this, we cannot walk into next year with him as our QB.

The dude has:

multiple turnovers in three of his five starts this year and six of his last 10 starts going back to last year.

Maybe he's just unlucky. Or maybe his ball placement isn't great (the pass to Garcon was behind him...but Garcon did essentially hand the ball over to Atlanta).

But that's not an aberration. That's a solid trend.

That being said, our overall scoring is a bit concerning. We are averaging a shade under 20 ppg and haven't been able to establish our running game since week 3. People on here have been talking about how great our running game is, but in reality it is NOT good ----- at all. We averaged 2.1 ypc against ATL and something similar against PHI had it not been for Thompson's 40 yard run (on an unexpected run play) on 3rd and long. And teams aren't stacking the box consistently either. I am beginning to think we DO have an OL issue........

We score FGs not TDs, and that is crushing to this team. And center is most definitely a liability rihgt now. What's amazing is that when Lauvao went down, so did the running game. Who'd have thought he was that critical to this line?

Kirk also has not been able to adequately show he can hit WRs in stride on intermediate crossing routes. This is now an ongoing issue. Arm strength is fine. The deep ball on the PI play was on target. I didn't see him missing that many open WRs yesterday based on his primary options and play-initiated progressions. Accuracy is my main concern with Kirk. He needs to learn to hit receivers on 10+ yard passing routes in stride and not behind them. I am of the opinion that he is a 100% game manager type QB, but I'll give him a couple more games....

Agreed except as noted above, game managers can't turn the ball over.

Honestly, I thought the Keenan Robinson missed tackle would have been a bigger discussion piece..... well, not really

In the end, I can't really pin any blame on the defense here. When the defense holds Atlanta to 19, and holds down Julio Jones (for the most part), they did their job. The offense though...sigh.

I don't consider you a "hater" per se. I consider people to be haters if they think either McCoy or RGIII is currently a better option --- which is clearly not true to anyone with an objective eye.

I agree that if he continues to make TOs then we cannot. We can make excuses for his INTs on ATL -- and they may be very justified -- but these types of things sort themselves out over the course of a season. We have 11 more games.

Agree that we need to put the ball in the endzone. Our OL is an issue and dampering our running game, but I was also eluding to the fact that Cousins is not throwing the ball DOWNfield. His short to intermediate passing is good, but we lack the ability to get yards in chunks. I put that on Cousins and the playcalling.

Totally agree that game managers don't turn the ball over. That is why -- if Cousins wants to maintain a job -- he needs to either limit the TOs or start putting up points. I don't care if he throws 1.5 INTs a game if he's also putting up 30 a game.

Agree that our DEF did a great job against ATL. The Keenan Robinson was more a joking comment. He has been a consistent player for us.

[SKINS#1]

I feel if Cousins would have played better throughout the game we should have won, however I do blame this one on Gruden. The Redskins simply have a mediocre offensive coaching tandem in Gruden/McVay. These two are probably the youngest two out there, yet we see no innovation, rigidness in their play calling and predictability. On the interception at the end of the game, Kirk notes he has to go to his hot read. Maybe someone can explain why Kirk's hot read the hardest throw on the field? You would think it would be the shortest route or easiest throw right? Carrier is on the inside in the slot position and the exact same throw could have been made there and would have been a much easier one. Kirk is instructed to throw to the far outside on a hot read by coaches and that is simply idiotic to me. Notice that Carrier is the easier throw on the picture below.



Not even mad at the interception as I thought the game was lost earlier but check out this article fellas:

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/news/blog ... 6ce90a07a0

"Robert Alford played the role of hero on Sunday thanks to his game-winning interception, which came as a result of some astute guidance.
In the week leading up to Atlanta’s bout against Washington, defensive coordinator Richard Smith emphasized a small, albeit significant, detail to his cornerbacks: When Kirk Cousins goes into a three-step drop (and he will do that often), anticipate a quick throw to the outside if the WR runs a “thunder” seam route.

Robert Alford remembered this on Sunday when Cousins took a few strides back and looked his direction on the sixth play of overtime. He saw the QB eye a fast strike; he noticed his receiver, Ryan Grant, ran the route Smith discussed. So Alford turned his hips and broke towards the sideline."



I think these are tendencies that defensive coaches in the league pick up and one of the main reasons for our inconsistencies on offense. It has been only 5 games and I already know by watching the games that when Matt Jones come in the game he is running to the outside 85% of the time. I already know if there is a zero blitz Jordan Reed is instructed to slant inward. If I'm the defense I bait that specific play Thoughts?

Great post, thanks for the insight. Let's hope Gruden and Cousins continue to learn from their failures.

[SkinsJock]

even more of an indication that our coaching staff need to do a better job ... IMO

[markshark84]

I think if Kirk were even semi competent , then we win this game by a bunch (not to mention any previous games this year ) The D played fantastic, and they plabed to shut down the run, daring Kirk to beat them. Safe bet, as it turned out, he couldn't rise to the occasion..

Make excuses for the ints, then blame his receivers, ignore him making the wrong coverage Adjustments, then pretend he wasn't HORRIBLY inaccurate ALL game, imagine djax is the only reason his noodle arm can't throw it deep, and tell yourself all the wide open targets he missed are a mirage; because after all, I have rgiii as my avatar so I MUST wish the worst for everyone else... And delight in seeing Kirk implode and underperforming time and time again.
Unfortunately we've gotten so deep into this qb carousel that those defenders of Kirk are super hypocritical for bashing those who made similar arguments when Rgiii would disappoint.. and conversely excusing Kirks every short coming like he can do no evil. The kid is an Alex Smith at BEST, Sexy Rexy is much more likely... Favre?? Lmmfao yo!

I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he just isn't good man. Rgiii may very well be done, but I prefer his disappointing games over Kirks... Seems like they stung less? Idk. Screwed either way apparently.. ultimately there is no right answer, only wrong.

What does the word "competent" mean to you? The definition I got was "acceptable and satisfactory, though not outstanding"..... Right now his QBR is 16 out of 33. Wouldn't that literally BE the definition of competent?????

And you think we aren't undefeated because of Kirk?

I think the excuses were to blame the WRs for the INTs --- so I have no idea why you have a comma there. It is more like: "Make excuses blaming his WRs for the ints" --- if I were you I'd correct that. And while Kirk has MANY deficiencies in his game and is by no means a "solid starter" -- at least the Garcon INT wasn't fully on him. The Grant one is arguable as we have no idea whether it would have been intercepted had he not fallen (and he fell after the ball was thrown).
http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/20585/redskins-qb-kirk-cousins-interception-resulted-from-multiple-factors
Regardless, it doesn't matter. From what I have seen Kirk appears a "game manager' with a TO problem --- which I don't consider an attractive option. I agree with you that he looks VERY VERY similiar to an Alex Smith --- which is my worst nightmare. I'd rather have a TO-prone gunslinger than an Alex Smith.....

Not sure where you are getting the fact he made wrong coverage adjustments against ATL. I didn't see a huge issue with that --- and it is something I can typically ID quickly (as most should since it's obvious). I wouldn't say he was accurate, but he wasn't "horribly inaccurate". I didn't see him missing many open targets against ATL; I DID against NYG. You appear to start the sentence being specific to ATL, but then it seems that you include deficiencies which happened in other games...... Keep it straight. It weakens the argument and makes it look like you are REACHING. There are tons of justifiable ways to defame Kirk's game. You don't need to reach.

I don't think Kirk imploded..... he did lead the team back with 24 seconds to tie the game. That was a very good effort. After all, ATL had a 97.07% probability of winning after they scored their 4Q TD. For Kirk to come back from that is pretty remarkable.....
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201510110atl.htm

Oh and you have NEVER EVER EVER tried to give him the benefit of the doubt. Literally no one believes that. If you gave him the "benefit of the doubt", you wouldn't have wanted him benched in week 3. Come on man.
http://thehogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41015&p=655892#p655892
I think it is time to call a spade a spade here. You want RGIII to start -- now. You don't care if he's the worst QB in the history of the game or the worst QB on the team. All rationality left the building. You still believe there is that 2012 RGIII somewhere and it will come the next time he enters the game. You don't care that he was statistically one of the worst QBs since Sept. 2013 in the NFL or that he ran an offense in 2012 that is extinct as a primary offense. You will overlook any flaws and make excuses for him --- while doing the exact opposite for any other QB on the skins. You prefer his disappointing games over Kirks BECAUSE you care more for RGIII than the well-being of the team itself. Kirk keeps us in games. You think a Kirk Homer is anyone that doesn't want RGIII and/or put Kirk down for any little mistake made. I honestly hate typing this and makes me feel a bit uncomfortable, but lets just be real about it moving forward. Your posts are just so RGIII-jaded it is crazy. After all, this is how you feel about Kirk:
http://thehogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=41056&p=657066#p657066

And I think your last statement is actually VERY accurate. There is no "right" answer because we don't have a solid QB on our roster. We know what we have in RGIII and McCoy, so Gruden has opted for door #3 over the 2 proven commodities. Kirk has had 2 very good games, 1 average, and 2 poor. He has 11 more to go. I'd say lets see how it plays out, but you being an RGIII fan I am sure we will continue to analyze them each week --- at least the poor ones which is when you are the loudest........ after all you had all of 1 post the week after PHI.

[riggofan]

What does the word "competent" mean to you? The definition I got was "acceptable and satisfactory, though not outstanding"..... Right now his QBR is 16 out of 33. Wouldn't that literally BE the definition of competent?????

LMFAO. Yeah pretty much, Mark.

[DEHog]

It’s ironic, had Cousins not brought us back to tie the game in the last 24 seconds, we wouldn’t have heard a peep from the pro RG crowd!!

[riggofan]

It’s ironic, had Cousins not brought us back to tie the game in the last 24 seconds, we wouldn’t have heard a peep from the pro RG crowd!!

haha. I see your point. We would have lost because the defense failed to get that stop at the end. There would have been no overtime INT because there would have been no OT.

[SkinsJock]

It’s ironic, had Cousins not brought us back to tie the game in the last 24 seconds, we wouldn’t have heard a peep from the pro RG crowd!!

haha. I see your point. We would have lost because the defense failed to get that stop at the end. There would have been no overtime INT because there would have been no OT.

HAHA indeed - but we did not lose because of Captain Kirk's play or because he threw another interception - Captain Kirk is playing well - he's still got that interception tag but he's not the reason we lost 2 of the games and he certainly helped win one we could have easily lost

we're still in rebuild mode and we're looking a lot better than many thought we would - got to get through this season and then reassess

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

If Kirk doesn't lead the team to that field goal with 24 seconds left we aren't even having this discussion about the interception.

It’s ironic, had Cousins not brought us back to tie the game in the last 24 seconds, we wouldn’t have heard a peep from the pro RG crowd!!

It's nice to know some of us are on the same page.