The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

markshark84 wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:What makes ANYONE think Kirk CAN "read" a D? Like when he hits the wide open MLB?? OR when he misses Reed running free multiple times a game?

Done.

Wow. Since you are so OBJECTIVE, I thought you'd be on here saying that the 2nd INT was tipped and the MLB INT was a disquised coverage or something....... Or that much of the 316 yards he passed for against NYG wasn't in garbage time but in fact the game was close and not out of reach......

I'm surprised that you are done with Cousins after 2 bad games while you want to give RGIII 3 seasons......

Cousins honestly has issues reading a DEF, no question. He is a game manager at best. He has a weak arm (which to anyone that understands the game isn't weak enough to be an issue). He is bad after a third progression read. He is wildly inconsistent. There is more, but I think you get the drift.

At the end of the day, he doesn't appear to be our answer at QB moving forward (although it may be wise to give him 8 game before we determine that) ---- but he is our BEST option on the current roster.

I understand your agenda, but putting down Cousins doesn't make RGIII any better than his 40.4 QBR post-2012.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:

markshark84 wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:What makes ANYONE think Kirk CAN "read" a D? Like when he hits the wide open MLB?? OR when he misses Reed running free multiple times a game?

Done.

Wow. Since you are so OBJECTIVE, I thought you'd be on here saying that the 2nd INT was tipped and the MLB INT was a disquised coverage or something....... Or that much of the 316 yards he passed for against NYG wasn't in garbage time but in fact the game was close and not out of reach......

I'm surprised that you are done with Cousins after 2 bad games while you want to give RGIII 3 seasons......

Cousins honestly has issues reading a DEF, no question. He is a game manager at best. He has a weak arm (which to anyone that understands the game isn't weak enough to be an issue). He is bad after a third progression read. He is wildly inconsistent. There is more, but I think you get the drift.

At the end of the day, he doesn't appear to be our answer at QB moving forward (although it may be wise to give him 8 game before we determine that) ---- but he is our BEST option on the current roster.

I understand your agenda, but putting down Cousins doesn't make RGIII any better than his 40.4 QBR post-2012.

Funny you always put words into my mouth.

Kirk is a turn over machine, never wasn't.

To that point RG at LEAST gave us record setting performances, and a playoff birth. He also had a PERFECT game as a rookie, tell me that's all on his healthy knee?


Now , although I'm a Griff supporter, I never said anything to start him.. just pointed out Kirks WEAK arm, lack of touch, and piss poor reads. The 2nd int he gets all the blame, the receiver was covered like a blanket!! Like many throws he made that night... Unlike the throws he missed , Jordan running free in the damned end zone TWICE.

I think we know what we have in him, pouty faced after a bad play and forced balls that should never be thrown. Robert on the other hand was impressing people (opposing players including) in camp... And deemed to have improved on HIS weaknesses.


That considering, I still didn't call for him. I feel that if he hasn't turned a corner then we MUST go with Colt. Atm he MUST give us the best chance to win... He is gritty and a lot more safe with the ball then Kirk.

Thursday's game was a total embarrassment man... That sucked the big one

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:

markshark84 wrote:
Wow. Since you are so OBJECTIVE, I thought you'd be on here saying that the 2nd INT was tipped and the MLB INT was a disquised coverage or something....... Or that much of the 316 yards he passed for against NYG wasn't in garbage time but in fact the game was close and not out of reach......

I'm surprised that you are done with Cousins after 2 bad games while you want to give RGIII 3 seasons......

Cousins honestly has issues reading a DEF, no question. He is a game manager at best. He has a weak arm (which to anyone that understands the game isn't weak enough to be an issue). He is bad after a third progression read. He is wildly inconsistent. There is more, but I think you get the drift.

At the end of the day, he doesn't appear to be our answer at QB moving forward (although it may be wise to give him 8 game before we determine that) ---- but he is our BEST option on the current roster.

I understand your agenda, but putting down Cousins doesn't make RGIII any better than his 40.4 QBR post-2012.

Funny you always put words into my mouth.

Kirk is a turn over machine, never wasn't.

To that point RG at LEAST gave us record setting performances, and a playoff birth. He also had a PERFECT game as a rookie, tell me that's all on his healthy knee?

Now , although I'm a Griff supporter, I never said anything to start him.. just pointed out Kirks WEAK arm, lack of touch, and piss poor reads. The 2nd int he gets all the blame, the receiver was covered like a blanket!! Like many throws he made that night... Unlike the throws he missed , Jordan running free in the damned end zone TWICE.

I think we know what we have in him, pouty faced after a bad play and forced balls that should never be thrown. Robert on the other hand was impressing people (opposing players including) in camp... And deemed to have improved on HIS weaknesses.

That considering, I still didn't call for him. I feel that if he hasn't turned a corner then we MUST go with Colt. Atm he MUST give us the best chance to win... He is gritty and a lot more safe with the ball then Kirk.

Thursday's game was a total embarrassment man... That sucked the big one

EA7649 wrote:
PLAY Nice men!
Kirk sucks his play (putting it nicely he's not a productive starter only being an inconsistent game manager) and his confidence not leading to wins and playing behind. I'm going to have a headache hearing about Kirk non-sense, Gruden stubbornness to stick with Kirk, some fans wanting Kirk to play some not. I decided to TRY not to comment on statuses about Kirk for the rest of the season Some shouting RG3! I think Colt and Robert give a better chance to win. Probably best bet is Colt, but I was looking forward to seeing how Robert plays but oh well. More than likely the starting qb of next year isn't on this roster. Either FA or draft.

markshark84 wrote:

EA7649 wrote:
PLAY Nice men!
Kirk sucks his play (putting it nicely he's not a productive starter only being an inconsistent game manager) and his confidence not leading to wins and playing behind. I'm going to have a headache hearing about Kirk non-sense, Gruden stubbornness to stick with Kirk, some fans wanting Kirk to play some not. I decided to TRY not to comment on statuses about Kirk for the rest of the season Some shouting RG3! I think Colt and Robert give a better chance to win. Probably best bet is Colt, but I was looking forward to seeing how Robert plays but oh well. More than likely the starting qb of next year isn't on this roster. Either FA or draft.

LOL. Cowboykillerz and I have a history of banter. I don't take what he says personally and I hope he doesn't either.

As far as the starter, I think our starter next year is on this roster unless something crazy happens like a quality NFL QB becomes disgruntled or we lose the rest of our games and a college QB emerges.

I still believe Kirk gives us the best chance but it has only been 3 games. I think we'll have a better picture by the bye. He has a lot of issues to deal with though....

That being said, I would LOVE to see how RGIII rebounds next season after sitting on the bench and being humbled. Could this give him the drive he needs or will he be gone by then?

OldSchool wrote:In 2016 the Skins will choose between paying Griffin 16M or cutting him. I hope there isn't middle option where he stays for far less because I so want him gone. I am so tired of hearing about this grossly under talented bust and his idiotic fan boys pining for him. Epic bust.

PulpExposure wrote:so it's not an epic bust the likes of Tim Couch, Jamarcus Russell, or Ryan Leaf

There are a lot of variables in the quarterbacks situation, rendering any prediction on if a change would be made from a healthy Cousins to Griffin is at best a guess. But let’s see if we can plough through some of the factors that Jay Gruden would have to consider.

First, I’m not so sure it’s fair to say that Cousins is “playing poorly”. He is more in the middle of the pack in most statistical categories. Sure, he has throw four interceptions, more than Jay Gruden would like. But eight quarterbacks, a fourth of the starters in the league, have thrown four or more picks this year.

But for our purposes here where he stands in comparison to the rest of the league is not as important as where he stands on the team. Could Griffin protect the ball better? To isolate one game, Cousins has received a great deal of criticism for throwing those two interceptions against the Giants. But he was forced to throw 49 passes. Griffin has thrown 49 or more times in a game twice. He was picked off twice in one of them and once in the other.

The disappointing game in the Meadowlands was just one game. Let’s look at the Dolphins game, when things were going better than they were against New York. Cousins was intercepted twice in 31 pass attempts. Griffin has attempted between 30 and 32 passes five times in his career. He threw five interceptions in those games including a pair or two-interception games. So Griffin is capable of having a similarly disappointing outing if he throws a similar number of attempts.

Setting aside the turnovers and expanding the view to career numbers, Griffin is slightly more accurate than Cousins (career completion percentage 63.9 Griffin, 61.1 Cousins) and he has a somewhat higher average yards per attempt (Griffin 7.6, Cousins 7.3). But Griffin gets sacked far more often (Griffin 8.7% of dropbacks, Cousins 3.7%), negating any advantage that Griffin has when passing. When you factor in yards lost on sacks, the offense gains an average of 6.3 yards every time Griffin drops back to pass compared to 6.7 for Cousins.

So, at the moment, there really is no evidence that Griffin would necessarily produce better than Cousins if he was in at quarterback under the same circumstances. But, with a few more games like the one against the Giants, where Cousins not only had the interceptions but also missed open receivers (notably Jordan Reed twice in the end zone), Gruden could feel the need to make a QB switch.

But would the change be to Griffin? Let’s say the Redskins stumble to 1-5 under Cousins and are out of any realistic playoff contention. What would there be to gain by risking the $16 million option guarantee if Griffin was to get injured badly enough to be unable to pass a physical in March of next year?

I think that if the season is lost and a quarterback change is made, the player under center would be Colt McCoy. Not because he’s the second best quarterback on the team—he’s not, he’s third by a clear margin—but because the risk of using Griffin, given his high sack rate, is greater than the reward.

Have we necessarily seen the last of Griffin? No, there could be some scenarios where an injury while the Redskins are still in playoff contention could open the door for one more chance for RG3. And, as I noted at the top of the post here, there are a lot of variables in play and an organization that can be unpredictable in its action. So while logic says that the RG3 era is over in DC, the reality could be a different outcome.

SkinsJock wrote:first of all - there's no logic at all to what's happening here as far as the QBs go ...

DarthMonk wrote:What does under throwing an open guy have to do with reading a D? Seems like a good call and read - just a bad throw - and not due to a weak arm - just a simple under throw which, of course, is bad.

First pick was really on the WR - horrible route. 2nd was all on Kirk.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:26 ints on less then half the attempts of rgiii is NOT reading the D any better...

I watched this same show last year, ended with Kirk Grossman in street clothes.

My biggest gripe is we give Kirk 8 games but rgiii 2 fake games? Or does 2012 not count for Rob but does for Kirk, then we base all of our info on the comeback year in a broken system? Ok. What Eva.

Maybe we should snag Pryor if we are that far gone at qb?

StorminMormon86 wrote: .. Griffin will not be moved to 2nd string. McCoy practiced yesterday.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:26 ints on less then half the attempts of rgiii is NOT reading the D any better...

I watched this same show last year, ended with Kirk Grossman in street clothes.

My biggest gripe is we give Kirk 8 games but rgiii 2 fake games? Or does 2012 not count for Rob but does for Kirk, then we base all of our info on the comeback year in a broken system? Ok. What Eva.

Maybe we should snag Pryor if we are that far gone at qb?

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:26 ints on less then half the attempts of rgiii is NOT reading the D any better...

I watched this same show last year, ended with Kirk Grossman in street clothes.

My biggest gripe is we give Kirk 8 games but rgiii 2 fake games? Or does 2012 not count for Rob but does for Kirk, then we base all of our info on the comeback year in a broken system? Ok. What Eva.

Maybe we should snag Pryor if we are that far gone at qb?

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote::yawn:

My point is we judge rgiii only for the long since passed.. and cousins on a mediocre game manager game 2 this year? All his doodoo from last year is irrelevant? He looked lost vs nyg both games- and the garbage time stats don't impress me one bit. If the run game isn't killing the opposition, Kirk gives us little chance to win. The time he is getting in the pocket shows me some one half way decent can win now. Is he on the roster? I just don't know. Kirk is the same as he always has been

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:As much as people downplay 2012, there was REAL talent shown there- and I think the story isn't finished.