The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

It has been shown time and time again by people that analyze O-lines that the Redskins line is not AS BAD as some make it out to be. The QB does indeed have responsibility as well.

The O-line is rebuilding from smallish, agile guys that can run a zone read to a more brick and mortar NFL standard. It will take time, and they will make mistakes.

That all being said, not a single person has mentioned how much a factor losing a strong TE is in maintaining protection or even disguising protection. No one in the NFL has to worry about a Redskins TE blocking them, so we are essentially down 1 player on the most important front of football. That's not on the O-line or coaches, but it is a reality. The QB should then, therefore, adjust to that reality to maximize opportunity for success. This is where RGIII fails miserably. He is one-dimensional, and that is to throw long. If that is not there, he runs awkwardly. He's an injury time bomb and it is like riggofan says - we're just afraid for his health at this point.

The Skins need a blocking TE as badly as a solid RT - it's just never talked about since the position has turned much more into being valued as a pass-catching position.

The point about Colt's release is spot on. Getting rid of the ball/timing will go far to get the opposing defense to think twice before unloading and getting called for a 15-yd roughing penalty.

It's not looking good for this team with RGIII at the helm. I am done with him. He has tried, and I give him credit for that, but if he doesn't play the game he played in 2012, he is of no value to the team. He'll never be a pocket passer - it's just too steep of a learning curve from the mold he fits.

Deadskins wrote:NFL Network will replay the game at midnight EDT.

Also 7:00 am Saturday.

In more upbeat news... Matt Jones sure looks like a beast out there.

riggofan wrote:In more upbeat news... Matt Jones sure looks like a beast out there.

Yes, yes he does.

Deadskins wrote:

riggofan wrote:In more upbeat news... Matt Jones sure looks like a beast out there.

Yes, yes he does.

its interesting... Alf seems to play best when he's angry with himself (as in, a team that forces him to fumble finds him doubly motivated to make up for his error). However, I understand that the coaching staff wants Jones to play pissed off at the world (a la "Beast Mode"). Could be a fun dichotomy...

riggofan wrote:Everybody needs to take a look at this photo:



THREE open receivers and enough time to make a read and throw. Griffin takes off on the run. Drops the ball on the turf. Injured shoulder, concussion.

Come on.

Pictures are deceiving. When coaches say they are going to look at the tape, they mean actual VIDEO not still shots of a play. You can literally take a still shot of any given play with any given team and find guys open. So this shot means nothing. Not saying guys were not open on this specific play cause they were just the whole idea of taking screenshots. Professionals only use the still shots for formation looks not indication whether or not guys are open because SPEED OF THE GAME is not factored into a still shot. Guys can close the gap within a blink of an eye.

With that said after getting knocked and hit on every single play Griffin was rattled and tried to run out the pocket. Simple as that! There is a human element to this game too. It is not as cut and dry as everyone like to make it seem. A guy is not going to keep getting hit and be perfect nor will he and other players play to perfection on every single play. Not a great play call nor was it executed to perfection. No one know if he was scrambling to throw b/c he was still around 3-4 yards behind the line of scrimmage. He fumbled...Move on! The guy only has 13 passes in the preseason. Not even a full game worth of passes to give him an accurate assessment THIS YEAR nor to find a rhythm or find out of a rhythm.

It is getting old everyone nitpicking every single play of the QB position. Yall not getting paid for this, Jay Gruden is to assess and help develop all 3 QBS into better QB's and he's during a horrible job.

mastdark81 wrote:Pictures are deceiving. When coaches say they are going to look at the tape, they mean actual VIDEO not still shots of a play.

Come on man, give me a break. You can look at video of the play and the same three guys are still open on it.

I understand your point that he was rattled and unwilling to stand in the pocket then. Fair enough. I'm not really sure that makes what happened any better.

I think the concussion ended his career in DC. Can't take a chance of a major injury that would cost a ton of $ next year.

Man, it was the perfect storm in the first quarter last night. No Trent, Scherff looking like he's not ready, No TE to keep the linebackers honest, No DeSean Jackson to keep the safeties honest. Can't run the ball because there's no reason for anyone to be out of the box. They don't run screens and they aren't good at it anyway. Blitz Blitz Blitz and nobody who could handle it. The receivers catching three yard passes and getting slammed before they could even turn around. Rg3 getting absolutely obliterated, fumbling the ball. People better get healthy and learn how to block or its gonna be de ja vous all over again.

Honestly at this point, the Griffin experiment should END. Good riddance. I have ZERO confidence that McCoy is our answer, and if he starts we're looking at a 6-7 win season. I have like a 5% chance that Cousins can lead this team to a wild card playoff spot, but that's about it. I want to see what Cousins does against #1's. And I want to see him throw an interception and see how he responds. Other than that, it seems pretty hopeless.

riggofan wrote:In more upbeat news... Matt Jones sure looks like a beast out there.

Yes...seems like the heir apparent if Morris doesn't re-sign here.

Also good to see McCoy rebound from the blunder at the end of the half, and also good to see Cousins make some nice throws on some 3rd and semi-long situations. No near picks from him either.

1. Griffin should be cut because the game is too fast for him and he's going to get seriously injured if he keeps playing it. He just doesn't think fast enough for the NFL.

2. Gruden should pick between Cousins and McCoy and go with him. My preference would be Cousins and see if he can reduce the picks. If he can cut them by 1/3 and closed games better we'd have something there.

3. Next season add more beef like they did this year and stick with Cousins or McCoy until the rest of the roster is strong enough and they have a team or a new qb will have a better supporting cast but I think they should go with Cousins or McCoy for 30+ starts and let they guy grow into the job.

riggofan wrote:Everybody needs to take a look at this photo:

THREE open receivers and enough time to make a read and throw. Griffin takes off on the run. Drops the ball on the turf. Injured shoulder, concussion.

Come on.

I noticed that when watching replays too, and here's what I think was happening. There were two guys open (the guy at the top had someone closing), but both were at or just beyond the line of scrimmage on 3rd and 16. You don't throw a dump-off there if you can extend the play. His man (men?) downfield were covered, and Griffin decided to leave the pocket in an attempt to buy more time. You can see in that photo where he wanted to go: between the guard and tackle on his right, where there was plenty of space. The idea was to extend the play and draw some of those cover guys toward him, at which point receivers will have improvised and he could hit someone for a bigger gain, possibly for a 1st down.

Not a bad idea, necessarily, but he was obviously clumbsy when revving up his scramble mode — just moving inefficiently, I guess I'd call it. Not the decisive quick scrambles we saw from him in 2012 (like the moves he put on the Giants that one time). I think the defensive linemen might have caught up with him too soon and hit him either before he could make a throw or during/after it.

At any rate, knocking the ball out of his own hand with his knee was just icing on the cake to ensure the play wasn't going to be successful.

brad7686 wrote:Yeah, but you are all talking about how RG3 doesn't get the ball out, and you're using an example where he CHOSE not to throw the ball because it was 3rd and 16 and the receivers weren't going anywhere.

And RGIII would agree with you. And that's why his dumb*** is going to be sitting behind a keyboard just like you are very soon. That's why he's the joke of the league. He "chose" to not do the job of the quarterback and operate within the system, and his dumba** got hurt. Good for him and you too I suppose, because the greatest QB in the NFL agrees with your assessment.

The defense could stand on the sidelines, and RGIII would figure out a reason to tuck and run. And I'm sure 8/10 people on this forum would agree with his decision.

brad7686 wrote:Man, it was the perfect storm in the first quarter last night. No Trent, Scherff looking like he's not ready, No TE to keep the linebackers honest, No DeSean Jackson to keep the safeties honest. Can't run the ball because there's no reason for anyone to be out of the box. They don't run screens and they aren't good at it anyway. Blitz Blitz Blitz and nobody who could handle it. The receivers catching three yard passes and getting slammed before they could even turn around. Rg3 getting absolutely obliterated, fumbling the ball. People better get healthy and learn how to block or its gonna be de ja vous all over again.

Right you are.. add in the play calling for plays that had to develop- more so do to the lack of yards picked up running...
And was it jus me, or was the Lions D line playing like it was the SB? Definitely cranked, imo

Irn-Bru wrote:

riggofan wrote:Everybody needs to take a look at this photo:

THREE open receivers and enough time to make a read and throw. Griffin takes off on the run. Drops the ball on the turf. Injured shoulder, concussion.

Come on.

I noticed that when watching replays too, and here's what I think was happening. There were two guys open (the guy at the top had someone closing), but both were at or just beyond the line of scrimmage on 3rd and 16. You don't throw a dump-off there if you can extend the play. His man (men?) downfield were covered, and Griffin decided to leave the pocket in an attempt to buy more time. You can see in that photo where he wanted to go: between the guard and tackle on his right, where there was plenty of space. The idea was to extend the play and draw some of those cover guys toward him, at which point receivers will have improvised and he could hit someone for a bigger gain, possibly for a 1st down.

Not a bad idea, necessarily, but he was obviously clumbsy when revving up his scramble mode — just moving inefficiently, I guess I'd call it. Not the decisive quick scrambles we saw from him in 2012 (like the moves he put on the Giants that one time). I think the defensive linemen might have caught up with him too soon and hit him either before he could make a throw or during/after it.

At any rate, knocking the ball out of his own hand with his knee was just icing on the cake to ensure the play wasn't going to be successful.

I'd add that he most likely was already concust well before this play.. but think you hit it on the head (not funny!)

Shame he felt the need to make a play like that in a meaningless game. Or are they meaningless with the amount of pressure (self induced including) he has to do well ?

Irn-Bru wrote:I noticed that when watching replays too, and here's what I think was happening. There were two guys open (the guy at the top had someone closing), but both were at or just beyond the line of scrimmage on 3rd and 16. You don't throw a dump-off there if you can extend the play. His man (men?) downfield were covered, and Griffin decided to leave the pocket in an attempt to buy more time. You can see in that photo where he wanted to go: between the guard and tackle on his right, where there was plenty of space. The idea was to extend the play and draw some of those cover guys toward him, at which point receivers will have improvised and he could hit someone for a bigger gain, possibly for a 1st down.

To follow up on this, here's another image with more of the field.



ey's analysis was basically that RGIII should have checked down on this play, probably to Chris Thompson. Apparently the wideouts were running identical comeback patterns to the outside that, because of Detroit's coverage, were always going to be covered. So by running outside the pocket, RGIII probably wasn't going to see a WR get open with the extra time. He also isn't going to be able to run for the 1st down. So the best option would have to be dumping it off and seeing if our guy can make a man miss.

He didn't really blame RGIII for trying to slide out of the pocket, but obviously when you can't even pull that off without making yourself fumble then there are problems.

DarthMonk wrote:I watched every drop back of Griff's at least 3 times. He repeatedly had a first read breaking open (often sickeningly wide open), didn't pull the trigger, and ultimately threw late before getting crushed or took a sack. I am convinced that, numerous times, Kirk or Colt would have taken the same circumstance and turned it into at least a positive if not big play without getting hit.

I know I'm just a guy with a high-def flat screen, a DVR, and a remote, and I know the blocking could have been better, but I blame almost every hit Griff took on Griff. One way to slow a rush is to gash a defense when your first read is breaking open on a post pattern right in front of you while you have a clear line of sight and the DB is still backpedaling while giving a big cushion. Griff would say no to that option, move on thereby helping to create duress, then manage a dump off (or not), and end it all by getting hit awkwardly and hard.

He was horrible.

PS - anybody think D-linemen take special delight in rocking his world after his "best in the league" quote?

Detroit is good to terrific on both sides of the ball. Given that our offense could do nothing in the first quarter, holding Detroit to 3 points, 92 total yards, 1 FG, and 2 punts on 3 1st quarter drives was excellent.

We did give up an 11 yard drive for a TD after the fumble but then Colt led us on a decisive 10 play 80 yard drive for a TD which consumed 5 minutes and 35 seconds.

Colt was one play away from 3 TD drives in 3 possessions.

Amen! We all see how bad RG is but the RG Only folks are still dreaming and making excuses for RG's inability to play. Kirk and Colt have been better than RG all 2014 and 2015! How can Gruden keep saying RG is the starter? Is Dan Snyder making Coach start RG! You can even see it when Gruden talks about RG that his heart isn't in it but I don't think he has a choice! Brother Jay would quit before he would start the 3rd best QB! Come on Man! Grow a set and start the best QB!

brad7686 wrote:http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000513931/article/redskins-offensive-line-unacceptable-vs-lions

Other than the fact he fumbled there was nothing wrong with the 3rd and 16 play. It's third and friggin sixteen. Sure, he could dump it off for no gain if he wanted to. Ask yourself why it was 3rd and long all night in the first place. Although you're all going to say "Rg3 didn't get the ball out in time". But it's kinda hard to do that when you're not finished your drop and people are barely in their routes, and the backfield already looks like Attica. Bad protection can lead to int's that way (Cousins). Not to say Rg3 was great, he stunk, but anyone who thought he should have been able to do anything with that protection have no internal clock.

Brad: I love your devotion, but I cannot believe even you think it isn't RG's fault. Yes, the O Line was poor, but RG looked like he didn't even know where he was. Colt and Kirk got the ball out fast and stopped the rush in its tracks. They teed off on RG because he had no idea where he we was, never looked down field, and had no feel for even what a pocket is! Since Snyder won't let Gruden start the best QB, I guess our only choice is to let RG loose to run for 2 or 3 games until they carry him off the field for good! He was a great college QB; he is a sorry pro QB! He needs to enjoy his past and his unearned money and let the Redskins end the RG experiment and become a pro team again!

Concussions will do that to you... He was smashed hard early...probably a little loopy- no?