Define "success" for the Redskins.

[langleyparkjoe]

Success? You mean what I as a Redskins' fan would call success?
This is a tricky question for me because in my eyes the only success is winning a (or another) superbowl.
I don't care about the '12 Division Championship because we did nothing with it. Had we one I'd say we were successful that year.
Having a winning record doesn't mean jack if you didn't win the superbowl. Making the playoffs, same exact thing to me.. no superbowl so what's there to brag about?
Oh, well, we almost got there. Yes, show me the "We Almost Got There Championship", loser of that game gets a ring while the winner goes onto the superbowl for a chance at success.
As a matter of fact, I don't even know what success is and you know why? Because I'm a Redskins fan, that's why.

[Deadskins]

Compare these 2 QBs:
QB 1:
Games: 167
Pass Yards: 25,206
Comp. %: 56.7
TDs: 160
INT: 138
Sack: 340
Game Winning Drives: 24
Super Bowl Wins: 1
SB MVP: 0
QB Rate: 77.4

QB2:
Games: 169
Pass Yards: 39,775
Comp. %: 59
TDs: 259
INT: 185
Sack: 280
Game Winning Drives: 31
Super Bowl Wins: 2
SB MVPs: 2
QB Rate: 82.4

Ok, as I'm sure you all knew, QB1 was Theismann, QB2 was Eli.

Here is another. Both of these QBs are in the HALL OF FAME:

QB3:
Games: 160
Pass Yards: 35,467
Comp. %: 60
TDs: 237
INT: 175
Sack: 323
Game Winning Drives: 29
Super Bowl Wins: 0
SB MVPs: 0
QB Rate: 84.4

QB4:
Games: 168
Pass Yards: 27,989
Comp. %: 52
TDs: 212
INT: 210
Sack: 307
Game Winning Drives: 27
Super Bowl Wins: 4
SB MVPs: 2
QB Rate: 70.9

I would put Eli's resume up against either of these two players --- and that's for the HOF.

And again, this doesn't mean he isn't a douche.

I don't consider Theismann to have been a great QB either, and it's a different game from when Bradshaw or even Jim Kelly were playing. FTR, Kelly should have one ring. (the loss to the Vagiants was on Norwood)

[Chris Luva Luva]

Easy, one word. Continuity. Continuity under the new GM. That is all.

[Prowl33]

Success? You mean what I as a Redskins' fan would call success?
This is a tricky question for me because in my eyes the only success is winning a (or another) superbowl.
I don't care about the '12 Division Championship because we did nothing with it. Had we one I'd say we were successful that year.
Having a winning record doesn't mean jack if you didn't win the superbowl. Making the playoffs, same exact thing to me.. no superbowl so what's there to brag about?
Oh, well, we almost got there. Yes, show me the "We Almost Got There Championship", loser of that game gets a ring while the winner goes onto the superbowl for a chance at success.
As a matter of fact, I don't even know what success is and you know why? Because I'm a Redskins fan, that's why.

So no matter what if the skins dont win the superbowl next year then the year was not a success?

For me now, if we draft some rookies that show promise like breeland, our defense under our new coordinator improves throughout the year, and we finish atleast 6-10 ill be very happy. Thatll make me feel like the team is turning the corner and will make strides year over year.

[langleyparkjoe]

See Prowl.. that's the really sad part of it.
We as Redskins fans will settle for 5-11, 6-10, or 7-9 as successful when in reality they are losing records and still stink.
I use to be like you Prowl, you couldn't tell me jack spit about our squad but I reached my boiling point this season after I went to both the Giants game and Seahawks game.. after those games, I hung up my stuff and just walked away. It felt good to watch the RedZone channel and not give two craps what these bums were doing.
To answer your question though, yes, if we don't win a superbowl we're some crap. I don't care (anymore) about improving because for the last decade it's always been "hey, we're looking better".. or my all time favorite one "give it time, it takes time". Screw that crap, I want to win now.. I mean isn't that fair considering how much $ I WASTED going to see these guys play + the $ spent on purchasing items? Success for me is winning a superbowl, if "improving" is successful for some of our fans, hey good luck with that, I won't knock anyone for it but I'm tired of it my brother.

[Prowl33]

See Prowl.. that's the really sad part of it.
We as Redskins fans will settle for 5-11, 6-10, or 7-9 as successful when in reality they are losing records and still stink.
I use to be like you Prowl, you couldn't tell me jack spit about our squad but I reached my boiling point this season after I went to both the Giants game and Seahawks game.. after those games, I hung up my stuff and just walked away. It felt good to watch the RedZone channel and not give two craps what these bums were doing.
To answer your question though, yes, if we don't win a superbowl we're some crap. I don't care (anymore) about improving because for the last decade it's always been "hey, we're looking better".. or my all time favorite one "give it time, it takes time". Screw that crap, I want to win now.. I mean isn't that fair considering how much $ I WASTED going to see these guys play + the $ spent on purchasing items? Success for me is winning a superbowl, if "improving" is successful for some of our fans, hey good luck with that, I won't knock anyone for it but I'm tired of it my brother.

Thinking in regards to wanting to win now isnt very productive. What would we have to do to accomplish that? Go after big name coaches? Free agents? Draft picks? It has been Dannys desire to "want to win now" that has caused us not to.

If Danny can "seemingly" change to the build to win later approach, then maybe you can too.

Whens the last time we had a GM that knew anything about how to build a football team? Your GM is the life of your team. A good one breeds success, and a bad one breeds failure.

[SkinsJock]

The thing here is that this franchise has not been managed properly since Snyder took over ...

each year the guys in charge here did what they thought would help the franchise be more successful in the near term ...

each year about now we'd see and hear the spin from management and get our hopes up - "Patience, things will be better soon ..."

this time around we've hired a GM - now if we continue to add players and coaches as they have in the past and without a plan and without guys in charge that don't think they can help this franchise be better ... THEY KNOW THEY CAN DO BETTER - things will NOT change

however

if they let these guys (primarily Scot and Jay) just do their thing, we will see improvement pretty soon - yes! it will take time

that's all that has to happen - bringing in new great free agents, drafting great college players and having incredibly talented coaching staff means squat if we continue to manage this franchise the way that Dan Snyder has done since 2000

we're hopeful that this year Snyder is going to finally put the plan in the hands of guys that know what they're doing

[langleyparkjoe]

I agree that the organization FINALLY seems to be going about things the right way finally.
I'm just tired of saying this "guess we'll just have to hope for the best.. again"

[Prowl33]

I agree that the organization FINALLY seems to be going about things the right way finally.
I'm just tired of saying this "guess we'll just have to hope for the best.. again"

Im a little concerned about the joe berry hire now... a guy without proven success that used to coach for tampa...

[SkinsJock]

I agree that the organization FINALLY seems to be going about things the right way finally.
I'm just tired of saying this "guess we'll just have to hope for the best.. again"

Im a little concerned about the Joe Barry hire now... a guy without proven success that used to coach for tampa...

could be just a huge 'mistake' just like 2 other guys that were absolutely terrible and went on to have 'some' success ...

Bill Belicheat was hopeless in Cleveland and Mike McCarthy should never have gotten a job in Green Bay based on his prior work

give me a break

[Prowl33]

I agree that the organization FINALLY seems to be going about things the right way finally.
I'm just tired of saying this "guess we'll just have to hope for the best.. again"

Im a little concerned about the Joe Barry hire now... a guy without proven success that used to coach for tampa...

could be just a huge 'mistake' just like 2 other guys that were absolutely terrible and went on to have 'some' success ...

Bill Belicheat was hopeless in Cleveland and Mike McCarthy should never have gotten a job in Green Bay based on his prior work

give me a break

Im not selling just yet.... but we arent only talking previous experience, but the potential preference of recruiting old Tampa staff. San Diego talks well of the guy, could just need the right situation.... but the odds arent near as good as other options from the outside looking in.

[markshark84]

I agree that the organization FINALLY seems to be going about things the right way finally.
I'm just tired of saying this "guess we'll just have to hope for the best.. again"

Im a little concerned about the Joe Barry hire now... a guy without proven success that used to coach for tampa...

Bill Belicheat was hopeless in Cleveland and Mike McCarthy should never have gotten a job in Green Bay based on his prior work

give me a break

Need a history lesson here. I literally hate the guy, but Belichek inherited a 3-13 team and within 3 years made them 11-5. The reason he was fired had a lot to do with moving to Baltimore and "starting fresh". I believe only 1 person was retained from CLE. That also had a lot to do with the 5-11 record the year he was fired. Before CLE, Belichek was winning SBs as a DC for the NYGs.

McCarthy was also named NFL assistant of the year and was a highly successful OC in NO. He was considered one of, if not the, best QB coach in football at the time. A the time of his hiring, most thought he would have had a HC job much sooner.

[ferryrich]

The only thing that I could define success as for next season is to show progress on the field and to prove it off the field.
On the field, there are 2 things that would be key for me:
1) An O-Line that can provide any protection whatsoever. Until this is sorted, it doesn't matter who our QB is. Once that line is solid, we can see who can really work the position. RG3 looked scared as soon as he got hit a couple of times and that has been too quick for too long. Cousins looked more calm, but prone to other errors because of being rushed.

2) A D that doesn't leave receivers wide open at least once on every drive. There's no bigger momentum killer than giving up 7 points because of 1 play. That happened in just about every game, with opportunities missed multiple times per quarter.

Off the field, I want to be able to see that the changes in the front office really have made a difference, with football decisions made by football people.
For now, I have faith in the fires / hires.

Not a lot to ask for.

[Deadskins]

Before CLE, Belichek was winning SBs as a DC for the NYGs.

Ahhh, so he learned to cheat from Mara. It all makes sense now.

[SkinsJock]

this is also a FACT ...

In 2005, McCarthy served as offensive coordinator for the San Francisco 49ers. His unit, beset by injuries and led by a rookie quarterback (top draft pick Alex Smith), finished the season ranked last in the NFL in points scored and yards gained.

BUT - it didn't matter - Mike was hired by the Packers in 2006

all I'm saying is that we shouldn't get too excited about things here ... we need to give these guys a couple of years ...

there's no way that the product on the field is going to be very good for a couple of seasons

we have to hope these guys can work minor miracles in the next 3 drafts and find 12 to 15 new starters

[Hooligan]

Between the HC, OC, and DC, the only one with prior experience at the position did poorly. I think skepticism of the hiring process is reasonable until proven wrong.

Not trying to be TOO negative, because I hope they DO prove me wrong. It's hard to look past the fact that all of our top coaches are trying to learn their jobs at the same time. I would have liked ONE coach with a track record of success at their position. An established HC with an up-and-coming OC or DC makes sense, as would a new HC with an established OC and DC. I just don't like our setup. These guys have a real uphill battle ahead.

[Prowl33]

Before CLE, Belichek was winning SBs as a DC for the NYGs.

Ahhh, so he learned to cheat from Mara. It all makes sense now.

+1