The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

OldSchool wrote:Cooley's been saying it for awhile Griffin doesn't mentally process things on the field well enough to play QB.

Unless you can support this with a quote I'm calling BS and saying you are putting words in ey's mouth. He has spoken along these lines but you are taking it to a new level ... yours.

Deadskins wrote:I never said he wasn't playing well because his feelings are hurt. I'm saying he's gun shy and everybody blaming him for everything is making him press, and just making everything worse. He may never get his confidence back, in which case you are right, we should probably move on. I don't have a solution, I'm just telling you what I see.

^^ this I agree with

these last 2 games, Robert has played terribly and has not looked at all like he has confidence in himself or what he's doing

this has to be V obvious to Gruden and McVay as well - they have to find a way to get more out of Robert and this offense

even if it's as basic as the coaches AND players doing a better job - JUST DO IT



btw - it's silly to just change the QB or any other player OR coach UNTIL Gruden determines the reason the plays are not working

if players or coaches are not able to do what Gruden wants then it's his job to make a change - Robert will not be the QB when he shows that he's not effective as QB - IMO, we're not there yet

I don't know if Griffin is going to be the QB we want him to be - we need to give him all the help we can to make that happen

SkinsJock wrote:I don't know if Griffin is going to be the QB we want him to be - we need to give him all the help we can to make that happen

Signing Garcon, DJax, Andre Roberts, having Alfred Morris in the backfield, calling a lot of short passes and screens to get him into a rhythm isn't giving him all the help he needs to succeed?

Deadskins wrote:I never said he wasn't playing well because his feelings are hurt. I'm saying he's gun shy and everybody blaming him for everything is making him press, and just making everything worse. He may never get his confidence back, in which case you are right, we should probably move on. I don't have a solution, I'm just telling you what I see.

You wrote that the fans were blaming him for Minnesota, and the fans were cheering when Cousins replaced him. I guess that's what I'm responding to. "Everybody blaming him is making him press" seems like the same thing to me, though I get what you're trying to say there. He's feeling that pressure, so he's trying too hard?

I don't know. I just didn't get the impression last Sunday that his problem was that he was trying to do too much. And he doesn't look like a guy who is lacking confidence exactly. He just looked sloppy, ineffective and unprepared. I thought it was really discouraging.

riggofan wrote:And he doesn't look like a guy who is lacking confidence exactly. He just looked sloppy, ineffective and unprepared. I thought it was really discouraging.

The very first play from scrimmage against the Buccaneers screamed low confidence. A confident Griffin hits Jordan Reed in the stomach with a dart. This sort of thing happened repeatedly against the Buccaneers.

It was certainly very discouraging.

I am a Griffin supporter. I think there is a switch he can flip. He has to do it though. I cannot support him forever.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I don't know if Griffin is going to be the QB we want him to be - we need to give him all the help we can to make that happen

Signing Garcon, DJax, Andre Roberts, having Alfred Morris in the backfield, calling a lot of short passes and screens to get him into a rhythm isn't giving him all the help he needs to succeed?

you are so out of touch, it's laughable - I'm talking about his not playing as well as he's capable

this guy is our best QB and he's not playing to his capabilities

If all 3 QBs could play at their best - whom do you think is the best QB? - the answer is obvious to anyone with any sense

Robert has so much more talent than Cousins and McCoy and these guys need to find a way to get him to play at that level

SkinsJock wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I don't know if Griffin is going to be the QB we want him to be - we need to give him all the help we can to make that happen

Signing Garcon, DJax, Andre Roberts, having Alfred Morris in the backfield, calling a lot of short passes and screens to get him into a rhythm isn't giving him all the help he needs to succeed?

Robert has so much more talent than Cousins and McCoy and these guys need to find a way to get him to play at that level

this is laughable because Griffin is mentally far behind the other two who can at least process the field fast enough to execute the offense whereas Griffin looks as bewildered as a fawn trapped on the Beltway. I haven't seen McCoy play enough to take the measure of him but he seemed to comprehend the defense he was looking at during his limited action. Couisins throw too many picks but he clearly understood the offense and the defense he faced.

RGIII has demonstrated he has the talent to run the read option where he has to read 1/2 the field, nothing more. I would consider this as having limited talent.

OldSchool wrote:Griffin looks as bewildered as a fawn trapped on the Beltway.

Nice imagery. Seriously.

Could you come up with one for Cousins on the bench after his upteenth pick? Seriously.

SkinsJock wrote:I'm talking about his not playing as well as he's capable

Then say that and not "we need to do everything we can to help him out".

How many more games do you need to see that this just might be exactly all he's capable of doing? He's not anywhere close to being mentally prepared in the QB position. Virtually every single person from C00ley all the way to the talking heads at ESPN have been saying the same things. It's not encouraging.

DarthMonk wrote:

OldSchool wrote:Griffin looks as bewildered as a fawn trapped on the Beltway.

Nice imagery. Seriously.

Could you come up with one for Cousins on the bench after his upteenth pick? Seriously.

Even with all the INTs the offense was scoring a hellova lot more points with Cousins behind center....

grampi wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:

OldSchool wrote:Griffin looks as bewildered as a fawn trapped on the Beltway.

Nice imagery. Seriously.

Could you come up with one for Cousins on the bench after his upteenth pick? Seriously.

Even with all the INTs the offense was scoring a hellova lot more points with Cousins behind center....

No doubt. BTW - in Kirk's complete games this year:

@ EAG = 1 INT & 34 points

vs NYG = 4 INT & 14 points

vs SEA = 0 INT & 17 points (tough D)

@ ARZ = 3 INT & 20 points

Actually, Griff scored fewer @ TEX and vs BUC but more @ VIK than Kirk did in 3 of his 4 games. Kirk scored a lot once and piled up a lot of yards (and picks).

And, of course, giving the ball back repeatedly with picks helps the other team score more too.

Anyway, I was dead serious about the imagery and would love to read some good ones for Kirk.

Here's a stab at one:

Kirk looked as despondent as a kindergartener who'd just had his lunch money stolen by welch.

DarthMonk wrote:

riggofan wrote:And he doesn't look like a guy who is lacking confidence exactly. He just looked sloppy, ineffective and unprepared. I thought it was really discouraging.

The very first play from scrimmage against the Buccaneers screamed low confidence. A confident Griffin hits Jordan Reed in the stomach with a dart. This sort of thing happened repeatedly against the Buccaneers.

It was certainly very discouraging.

I am a Griffin supporter. I think there is a switch he can flip. He has to do it though. I cannot support him forever.

So you're chalking up those poor passes to low confidence? I have no way to know if that's the case or not, but it doesn't seem far fetched to me that he's making those types of throws because he's nervous or whatever I guess.

Just seeing him on the field though, even after the INT, he didn't look shell shocked or scared. My impression on Sunday was that he believes he can get it done, he's just not getting it done.

hah. Whatever the truth is, I'm not sure which scenario would be better. A good QB lacking the confidence to play well or a confident QB lacking the ability to play well?

SkinsJock wrote:Robert has so much more talent than Cousins and McCoy and these guys need to find a way to get him to play at that level

That *might* be true. If by talent you mean athletic ability, then sure. He is without question a better athlete, faster, has a stronger arm. That doesn't mean he is a more talented quarterback.

Griffin to me didn't look like he was lacking confidence in that game. Remember how pumped he looked after that run and dive he did?

riggofan wrote:Just seeing him on the field though, even after the INT, he didn't look shell shocked or scared.

His fear stems from being injured again I think. He absolutely looks scared. As soon as a defender gets anywhere near him he loses focus downfield and goes into happy-feet mode. I'm not sure he's conscious of it or not. C00ley said as much in his coments after the Bucs game. Something about someone laying a hand on him and tucking the ball.

StorminMormon86 wrote:Griffin to me didn't look like he was lacking confidence in that game. Remember how pumped he looked after that run and dive he did?

Yes. I remember. He took off after his lack of confidence in the offense and his WRs led him to not pull the trigger thereby turning a potential big pass play into that run.

DarthMonk wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:Griffin to me didn't look like he was lacking confidence in that game. Remember how pumped he looked after that run and dive he did?

Yes. I remember. He took off after his lack of confidence in the offense and his WRs led him to not pull the trigger thereby turning a potential big pass play into that run.

This is the first I've heard about a "lack of confidence in the offense". DeadSkins is saying he's not confident because he's afraid he'll get hurt. Which is it? He's scared to get hurt, so he's going to run and launch himself trying to get a first down?

riggofan wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:Griffin to me didn't look like he was lacking confidence in that game. Remember how pumped he looked after that run and dive he did?

Yes. I remember. He took off after his lack of confidence in the offense and his WRs led him to not pull the trigger thereby turning a potential big pass play into that run.

This is the first I've heard about a "lack of confidence in the offense". DeadSkins is saying he's not confident because he's afraid he'll get hurt. Which is it? He's scared to get hurt, so he's going to run and launch himself trying to get a first down?

It's not the first I've heard (or seen) of it. He does not trust the reads. He wants a guy to demonstrate being open for several steps but by then it's too late. Then he takes off (if he hasn't been sacked already) and when he gets 10 yards it's like, "wow, great play" when really he missed the great play. It has happened repeatedly.

I can't speak for the Deadman.

They go together though. It's ironic. If he does not want to get hurt then he should trust the offense, trust the reads, pull the trigger, and start watching frustrated defensive linemen shake their heads because they can't get there fast enough. Instead, he's taking off (often in the wrong direction) at the first sign of pressure and that pressure is usually there because of his LACK OF TRUST/CONFIDENCE IN THE OFFENSE AND THE ACCOMPANYING UNWILLINGNESS TO PULL THE GDMFTrigger.

If you want to hear ey say it, take this link

http://www.stationcaster.com/player_ski ... &f=3650533,

scroll to Nov 18 - ey film breakdown, and click.

The magic word "trust" comes in just after the 9 minute mark when he throws late (yet again) to an open Jordan Reed.

We also hear it again just after the 11 minute mark when he throws late (yet again) to an open Garcon.

It gets REALLY bad at the 15 minute mark. This part speaks directly and precisely to the scramble/dive and the lack of trust/confidence in his WRs (and the offense) that led to it.

The scramble dive was not a display of confidence. It resulted from a lack of confidence in his teammates and the offense ... and maybe even in himself.

19 minute mark ... again. Throw the damn ball.

You might as well listen to it all.

DarthMonk wrote:It's not the first I've heard (or seen) of it. He does not trust the reads. He wants a guy to demonstrate being open for several steps but by then it's too late. Then he takes off (if he hasn't been sacked already) and when he gets 10 yards it's like, "wow, great play" when really he missed the great play. It has happened repeatedly.

Thanks, I misunderstood what you meant by "trust the offense". I'll check out C00ley's breakdown, that sounds really interesting!

riggofan wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:It's not the first I've heard (or seen) of it. He does not trust the reads. He wants a guy to demonstrate being open for several steps but by then it's too late. Then he takes off (if he hasn't been sacked already) and when he gets 10 yards it's like, "wow, great play" when really he missed the great play. It has happened repeatedly.

Thanks, I misunderstood what you meant by "trust the offense". I'll check out C00ley's breakdown, that sounds really interesting!

It's pretty brutal.