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Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:47 pm
by markshark84
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:I was worried about the what ifs portion as well.. what if we didnt get a puntbblocked what if we didnt fumble inside the ten twice what if Roberts carch held what if Garçon qent up a fraction later and made the play. I was just curious to what itd look like minus the handoff fumble since it was in Alfreds hand and his own knee bounced it out- and Robert being stepped on due to the linemen getting blown up I didnt see that as being squarely on him. I felt that the Paul fumble was a good what if because most anyone else on the Roster scores om that play either especially Reed or even Paulson. Sucks that it didn't turn out that way.
Romo is a statistical god- and we know how is career ended up- so playing with stats is kind of silly ultimately. Ive seen Robert kill teams with his arm in ncaa and the pros.. he is a duel threat whom needs to stay healthy so they are trying to tweak his style to get to the andrew luck level. He isnt there yet, butbim very hopeful he gets there soon.
The whole team gets a piece of the blame and Robert certainly isnt above that. He just doesnt deserve the "bust" label or play the backup card yet. He played good enough to get us the w- and other areas fell short. He could have played BETTER and overcame those big blows- but thats a tall order in a new system, a new role pretty much, vs a lofty pass rush.
If I had to blame one man it has to be Gruden. His unwillingness to continue running the ball after averaging ~7 yards is mind boggling. A 12 year old in China playing Madden wouldve kept feeding the A train- I have no idea why we did not. He too gets the "new role" "growing pains" pass... but the get out of jail free card will not be om the table in week 5/6.
Im hopeful he handles the adversity properly this week and makes progress in practice to right the ship this weekend. Luckily we are only a game back and can quite possibly bebin sole command of the East after week 3- fecals will play a pist off Luck and co this week before Djaxs coming home party!
Ive always been the half full silver lining type.. and being a skins fan is no exception. Its not easy any way you slice it. Hope and faith only gets you through the week... the team has GOT to play better and hopefully they do!
Agree with much of this.
With regards to QBR, I'm not sure. I personally would include the fumbled handoff within the equation since he was part of the play and could have tucked the ball and taken the loss without rolling the dice. The ball was never really in Morris' hands (and his knee didn't knock it out; it was a bad handoff in that it was overextended --- Morris never had possession) and it's the QB's job to stuff it in there. See the video here:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/washington-redskins in the 3rd row of vids. But I agree that Paul's play did hurt the QBR, but not enough that it would have jumped to a respectable total of 70+. I agree with the Romo sentiment and that is actually why I value the QBR ---- because it's a "contribution" stat.
I agree RGIII doesn't deserve the bust or back up label. He still has a season to go until you can really conclude fully. That being said, I (and most everyone) will continue to opine on his progression as the season goes on.
I agree also that most of the blame should be on Gruden. The playcalling was horrible. At least, I am hoping that is the reason for the team's performance and not that Gruden doesn't think RGIII has a grasp of the offense yet.
I think RGIII will say all the right things this week to the media; what I hope is that he is able to learn from this past game and use it moving forward.
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:56 pm
by Deadskins
Deadskins wrote:Any word on Reed's injury? I'd hate to lose him so early this season.
Redskins not optimistic about Cofield, Reed
ASHBURN, Va. (AP) -- Washington Redskins nose tackle Barry Cofield and tight end Jordan Reed could be sidelined for multiple weeks with injuries from the season opening loss to the Houston Texans.
Redskins NT Barry Cofield returns to practice Comcast SportsNet Mid Atlantic Redskins vs Texans: Jay Gruden Postgame Presser SB Nation Two Redskins go down with knee injuries on Thursday night ProFootball Talk on NBC Sports Redskins Practice 8/25: Jay Gruden Presser SB Nation Redskins mostly healthy going into opener Comcast SportsNet Mid Atlantic Coach Jay Gruden on Monday did not sound optimistic about a quick return for either player. He said he expects a definitive timetable once he gets the MRI results.
''It'll probably a week or two or three, or ... we'll see,'' Gruden said.
Cofield left in the second quarter of Sunday's 17-6 defeat with a high right ankle sprain. Reed strained his left hamstring on a 4-yard reception late in the first quarter.
High ankle sprains usually require several weeks of recovery, while hamstring injuries are notoriously unpredictable.
''We want to find out the severity of Jordan's injury before we go crazy,'' Gruden said. ''Hopefully it's not as long as we are dreading.''
The Redskins are thin at both positions. Backup nose tackle Chris Neild is out for the season with a knee injury, so Chris Baker will likely move from defensive end to take Cofield's spot.
Reed's absence would leave two healthy tight ends on the roster: Logan Paulsen and Niles Paul. The team will work out free agents this week, although Gruden said: ''If we have to play with two, we will.''
While Cofield has proved durable throughout his career - he hasn't missed a game since 2008 - second-year player Reed has been particularly injury-prone in his young career. This will be the eighth time he has been sidelined due to various injuries or illness in the 17 months since he was drafted.
Nevertheless, the Redskins were expecting big things from him after his 45 catches in nine games last season.
''When he goes out after the seventh play of offense, it hurts you a little bit,'' Gruden said. ''He was a major part of the game plan.''
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/redskins-n ... --nfl.html
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:06 am
by Irn-Bru
I just want to drop this in here for future reference. Griffin put a lot of the blame squarely on himself, praised team mates, etc. Stuff he's never been bad on but somehow got a reputation for being bad on:
http://www.hogshaven.com/2014/9/7/61190 ... me-presser
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:33 am
by StorminMormon86
Irn-Bru wrote:I just want to drop this in here for future reference. Griffin put a lot of the blame squarely on himself, praised team mates, etc. Stuff he's never been bad on but somehow got a reputation for being bad on:
http://www.hogshaven.com/2014/9/7/61190 ... me-presser
I liked everything he said in his presser. Even though I don't think he was the reason we lost, he's 100% right that he needs (as well as the team as a whole) to do better.
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:28 am
by emoses14
Irn-Bru wrote:I just want to drop this in here for future reference. Griffin put a lot of the blame squarely on himself, praised team mates, etc. Stuff he's never been bad on but somehow got a reputation for being bad on:
http://www.hogshaven.com/2014/9/7/61190 ... me-presser
The narrative of Griffin as a prima donna has a strong influence on the weak minded.
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:37 am
by emoses14
We all suffer the PTSD that is being a Skins fan, I get it. But the season is a movie, we've only seen the first scene. There's more to come and there was at least as much to build on/signs of improvement in game 1 as there were indicators of the sky falling. So it might MIGHT be worth while to get a few games 2-3-4 into the season before we determine that the season is toast. Maybe.
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:48 am
by riggofan
StorminMormon86 wrote:I don't understand how we played "ok". Had the final score been 17-14, I'd say yes we played "ok". We scored 6 points.
In my opinion, the offense played "ok" because we were in the red zone THREE times. How many times were the Texans in the red zone?
You're on here claiming that the offense wasn't moving the ball or whatever, well clearly the facts show that is B.S. The reason "we only scored 6 points" wasn't that we couldn't move the ball against the Texans or that the game plan was bad or that the play calling was heinous. It was the two fumbles. Without those red zone turnovers at worst we should have scored two field goals and been at 17-12.
I'm not trying to sugar coat the game, I just think the negative reactions to the offense Sunday are overblown. We did play "ok". Not good and not terrible.
Did anybody want the Giants play last night? They scored 14 points last night. Anybody want to claim that their offense looked better than ours did this week?
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:49 am
by StorminMormon86
riggofan wrote:You're on here claiming that the offense wasn't moving the ball or whatever, well clearly the facts show that is B.S. The reason "we only scored 6 points" wasn't that we couldn't move the ball against the Texans or that the game plan was bad or that the play calling was heinous. It was the two fumbles. Without those red zone turnovers at worst we should have scored two field goals and been at 17-12.
2 things: never said the game plan was bad, I actually agreed with what they did. My only gripe was Morris only had 14 carries. And we could speculate all day as to how the score could have been 17-12, the bottom line is we scored 6. Do you really think this offense today can compete with the rest of our schedule?
riggofan wrote:I'm not trying to sugar coat the game, I just think the negative reactions to the offense Sunday are overblown. We did play "ok". Not good and not terrible.
That's not going to win games. Griffin looked like John Beck for half of the game. That's not good. Our defense gave up 10 points and we still lost. Take away the miffed punt, the score is still 10-6. That's not ok.
riggofan wrote:Did anybody want the Giants play last night? They scored 14 points last night. Anybody want to claim that their offense looked better than ours did this week?
No and anyone would be a fool to do so. But being content with the way our offense played is just not the right way to think. We need to get better. And I definitely think we can.
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:11 pm
by riggofan
StorminMormon86 wrote:No and anyone would be a fool to do so. But being content with the way our offense played is just not the right way to think. We need to get better. And I definitely think we can.
Who said I was content? Of course we need to get better. Here's one way to get better: don't fumble the ball inside the red zone. Wow. Suddenly we've scored 20 points instead of 6.
I agree with your larger point about the offense and what's coming up on our schedule though. The Texans have a pretty good defense. But we're going to be under more pressure playing some teams with good offense AND defense. We need to get our offense rolling if we want to keep up in those games.
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:34 pm
by SkinsJock
If that effort is all we're getting this season, then we're in for a rough ride
I think that we saw enough to realize that we can expect better things from both the coaches and players
the O line might not look as bad if the play calling had included 20+ carries for Morris
we're not going to score many points if we keep dropping the ball inside the opponents 20 - I don't think that's going to happen each week
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:08 pm
by StorminMormon86
http://espngrantland.files.wordpress.co ... .gif?w=694Plays like this are where he needs to do better. This sack should have never happened.
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:29 pm
by oneman56
StorminMormon86 wrote:http://espngrantland.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/wattsack.gif?w=694
Plays like this are where he needs to do better. This sack should have never happened.
Who's he? I hope you're referring to Polumbus and not RGIII.
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:01 pm
by StorminMormon86
oneman56 wrote:Who's he? I hope you're referring to Polumbus and not RGIII.
No, that's on Griffin. He needs to step up in the pocket in that situation and either throw the ball, or throw it away. He should have never been sacked on that play.
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:02 pm
by riggofan
StorminMormon86 wrote:http://espngrantland.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/wattsack.gif?w=694
Plays like this are where he needs to do better. This sack should have never happened.
Ah yes, RGIII. Damn you! How could you be the only quarterback to get sacked that one time this weekend? Unacceptable I say!!!
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:21 pm
by StorminMormon86
riggofan wrote:Ah yes, RGIII. Damn you! How could you be the only quarterback to get sacked that one time this weekend? Unacceptable I say!!!
So you don't think Griffin should have attempted to step up in the pocket on that play? Or on the play where he back peddled and got sacked, knocking us out of field goal range?
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:32 pm
by markshark84
riggofan wrote:StorminMormon86 wrote:http://espngrantland.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/wattsack.gif?w=694
Plays like this are where he needs to do better. This sack should have never happened.
Ah yes, RGIII. Damn you! How could you be the only quarterback to get sacked that one time this weekend? Unacceptable I say!!!
I think that play was being used more as an example that RGIII needs to work on his ability to move within the pocket --- and that play shows pretty clearly he is not quite there. It is a little bigger than he was sacked once or that this was an isolated play. This was a situation where he could have avoided a sack fairly easily by taking 2 steps forward --- especially considering he had room in front of him and he hesitated. RGIII will have many many similar situations this season and, in order for RGIII to perform at the level we think he is capable of, he will need to learn how to escape easily avoidable sacks such as this one by moving within the pocket.
For example, in 2011 DEN QBs were sacked 42 times in 16 games. In 2012, Peyton (with DEN) was sacked 21 times in 16 games. There was only 1 player difference in the OL between those 2 years (and it was not an upgrade). Peyton knows how to avoid the rush by moving within the pocket. Historically Peyton has only been sacked 15.9 times a year. Many times pressure on the QB isn't a by product of the OL, but a combination of the QB and the OL --- and a good QB can make their OL look WAY better than a good OL can make a QB.
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:34 pm
by StorminMormon86
markshark84 wrote:and a good QB can make their OL look WAY better than a good OL can make a QB.
Somebody gets it!
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:59 pm
by SkinsJock
there has never been a question about Griffin needing time to become a more complete QB and learning to both read defenses and to utilize the pocket - he's only had this past off season to make the transition from the type of QB he was to the type of QB that Sean and Jay think he needs to be - Griffin will get there but it will take time and it's a little more difficult in that the O line is not that great
I was a little disappointed that he was not further along in this but I am looking forward to the time that he's doing all the things that Sean and Jay want him to and is better able to utilize his head, his arm and his speed
I look for Griffin to become a really great QB - I cannot remember a really good QB that can run a 4.3 40
it is going to take time but it's also going to take time to bring in the offensive linemen and have them become a good unit for him
it's the Redskins' refrain ... "wait until next year"
he definitely needs to show more 'progress' this week
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:30 pm
by oneman56
StorminMormon86 wrote:oneman56 wrote:Who's he? I hope you're referring to Polumbus and not RGIII.
No, that's on Griffin. He needs to step up in the pocket in that situation and either throw the ball, or throw it away. He should have never been sacked on that play.
Well i disagree, it's a PA play that takes time and as soon as he came off his read to the left Watt was in his lap. Unless you don't want him reading the defense and instead staring to see if his tackles are beat I personally don't see how he avoids this but i'm no QB guru so if you feel differently that's fine. This one is entirely on Polumbus IMO. On a PA pass the o-line knows they have to provide time and he got beat from jump by arguably the best d-linemen in the game. %hit happens. This play doesn't deserve singling out in my mind. Also, if you're gonna focus on this then why not mention plays he avoided sacks on or got rid of the ball in a hurry? Tom Brady was sacked 4 times and in similar fashion by wake, would you not claim Brady makes other better as you allude to later in this forum? And no, i'm not comparing them i'm simply saying sacks happen to the best of them and using an example where a RT is beaten so bad is hardly a good one to find fault with the QB especially when in the same game RGIII ran right into Watt or let Swearinger sack him on a roll out that are far better examples of RGIII causing the sack/hurry than this one.
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:36 pm
by oneman56
markshark84 wrote:riggofan wrote:StorminMormon86 wrote:http://espngrantland.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/wattsack.gif?w=694
Plays like this are where he needs to do better. This sack should have never happened.
Ah yes, RGIII. Damn you! How could you be the only quarterback to get sacked that one time this weekend? Unacceptable I say!!!
I think that play was being used more as an example that RGIII needs to work on his ability to move within the pocket --- and that play shows pretty clearly he is not quite there. It is a little bigger than he was sacked once or that this was an isolated play. This was a situation where he could have avoided a sack fairly easily by taking 2 steps forward --- especially considering he had room in front of him and he hesitated. RGIII will have many many similar situations this season and, in order for RGIII to perform at the level we think he is capable of, he will need to learn how to escape easily avoidable sacks such as this one by moving within the pocket.
For example, in 2011 DEN QBs were sacked 42 times in 16 games. In 2012, Peyton (with DEN) was sacked 21 times in 16 games. There was only 1 player difference in the OL between those 2 years (and it was not an upgrade). Peyton knows how to avoid the rush by moving within the pocket. Historically Peyton has only been sacked 15.9 times a year. Many times pressure on the QB isn't a by product of the OL, but a combination of the QB and the OL --- and a good QB can make their OL look WAY better than a good OL can make a QB.
Totally agree QB plays a HUGE roll in sacks, I live here in Denver and watched your example unfold, I just don't see this one being squarely on RGIII. Sure, he had room to move up and yes I suppose he could've but to me when re-watching that play he's trusting Polumbus to provide time while he goes through his progressions and as soon as he comes back right there's no where to go. There were at least 2 or 3 other examples in this same game that are better examples. I agree with the overall sentiment, he has improvements to make but every QB does especially 3rd year QB's following a first off-season and new system. I just don't get all the ridicule, if we want to find a play or a few every game of players making a mistake then so be it but that's not my agenda. RGIII needs to improve, the OL desperately needs to be better in pass pro and I think sprinkling in some zone read to slow the rush would help both.
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:36 pm
by FLWSkin
markshark84 wrote:riggofan wrote:StorminMormon86 wrote:http://espngrantland.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/wattsack.gif?w=694
Plays like this are where he needs to do better. This sack should have never happened.
Ah yes, RGIII. Damn you! How could you be the only quarterback to get sacked that one time this weekend? Unacceptable I say!!!
I think that play was being used more as an example that RGIII needs to work on his ability to move within the pocket --- and that play shows pretty clearly he is not quite there. It is a little bigger than he was sacked once or that this was an isolated play. This was a situation where he could have avoided a sack fairly easily by taking 2 steps forward --- especially considering he had room in front of him and he hesitated. RGIII will have many many similar situations this season and, in order for RGIII to perform at the level we think he is capable of, he will need to learn how to escape easily avoidable sacks such as this one by moving within the pocket.
For example, in 2011 DEN QBs were sacked 42 times in 16 games. In 2012, Peyton (with DEN) was sacked 21 times in 16 games. There was only 1 player difference in the OL between those 2 years (and it was not an upgrade). Peyton knows how to avoid the rush by moving within the pocket. Historically Peyton has only been sacked 15.9 times a year. Many times pressure on the QB isn't a by product of the OL, but a combination of the QB and the OL --- and a good QB can make their OL look WAY better than a good OL can make a QB.
That play also shows that Rob is the most over/hyper-critically analyzed player in football. I love how every move he makes is dissected to the n-th degree and usually points to how he is going to be or already is a bust. Yet Andrew Luck can throw four of five ints in a game and he is the greatest thing ever and the debate is whether he is the best QB in football right now...its astounding.....
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:46 pm
by emoses14
FLWSkin wrote:That play also shows that Rob is the most over/hyper-critically analyzed player in football. I love how every move he makes is dissected to the n-th degree and usually points to how he is going to be or already is a bust. Yet Andrew Luck can throw four of five ints in a game and he is the greatest thing ever and the debate is whether he is the best QB in football right now...its astounding.....
There are some other words for it too, but we don't talk about that kind of stuff, and aren't allowed to curse in this forum.
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:32 pm
by StorminMormon86
C00ley said essentially the exact same thing today on 980, but what would he know?
The amount of defense and excuses Griffin gets by certain fans is mind boggling. Mark Brunell was raked through the coals for nearly the same exact type of game Griffin had on Sunday.
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:55 pm
by cowboykillerzRGiii
StorminMormon86 wrote:C00ley said essentially the exact same thing today on 980, but what would he know?
The amount of defense and excuses Griffin gets by certain fans is mind boggling. Mark Brunell was raked through the coals for nearly the same exact type of game Griffin had on Sunday.
Co0ley wasnt there was he?
It is what it is man.. Rg gets blasted for farting in the locker room and over scrutinized on every play. SO people who dont see it the way the haterz do have to defend him. It is extremely tiresome and boring but an expectation in DC where the back up is elite year in and year out.
He wasnt perfect and he wasnt supremely good but he played good in most areas. Every qb wishes they could have a play or two back so the bashing seems to be a overboard. Not every qb will have a perfect game- although rg is amoung the FEW who have had one-.
I agree with what you are saying in that we have a seperation in the fan base- the nay saying haters who bash his every move and blind homers who deffend him rain or shine. I hope there will be a growing middle where we can except mistakes as long as they dont happen twice and we can give praise where its due.
Honestly though, from what ive read of your rg3 "defenders" (and posted myself) we haven't churched up his play nor minimized any of his negatives only choose to be a little more glass full on his performance. Ive argued that the fumble wasnt his fault alone- someone posted a link to the video sayingni was wrong, yet the video was titled "Alfred Morris Fumble". He executed the game plan, short passes, and did so accurately. He took one sack from the best in the biz and did pretty well on most accounts. A lot of room to gro but not nearly as bad as the doomsdayers would like to say.
Maybe im wrong, but the Griffin supporters seem to be a lot more realistic while remaining unbiased qith their analysis. .. I can NOT say the same for the other crowd of fans.
Re: Skins Texans postgame thread
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:59 pm
by StorminMormon86
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Co0ley wasnt there was he?
Kind of. It was during his film analysis breakdown of the offensive plays.
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:He wasnt perfect and he wasnt supremely good but he played goodnin areas. Every qb wishes they could have a play or two back so the scrutiny seems to be a overboard. Not every qb will have a perfect gane- although rg is amoung the FEW who have had one-.
I agree with what you are saying in that we have a seperation in the fan base- the nay saying haters who bash his every move and blind homers who deffend him rain or shine. I hope there will be a growing middle where we can except mistakes as long as they dont happen twice and we can give praise where its due.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! This is what I've been trying to say the entire time. He's not God. And he's not a bust. There's a middle ground there. He needs a lot of work, but he's not some hack who all of a sudden never had the ability to play quarterback.
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Honestly though, from what ive read of your rg3 "defenders" (and posted myself) we haven't churched up his play nor minimized any of his negatives only choose to be a little more glass full on his performance. Ive argued that the fumble wasnt his fault alone- someone posted a link to the video sayingni was wrong, yet the video was titled "Alfred Morris Fumble". He executed the game plan, short passes, and did so accurately. He took one sack from the best in the biz and did pretty well on most accounts. A lot of room to gro but not nearly as bad as the doomsdayers would like to say.
I take no issue with the short passes, since that was all that Houston was giving us. I take issue with people who criticize others who say Griffin did not have a "good" game, when Beck & Brunell would have similar games and get torched by various Redskins fans. It's hypocritical. I don't think he had a horrible game at all.
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Maybe im wrong, but the Griffin supporters seem to be a lot more realistic while remaining unbiased qith their analysis. .. I can NOT say the same for the other crowd of fans.
I honestly think both sides are unrealistic most of the time.
