The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

markshark84 wrote:100% agree that RGIII is a better athelete than Wilson --- and it isn't close. That being said, RGIII isn't even in the same ballpark as Wilson when it comes to maturity, poise, patience, and leadership by example. Those are the qualities that make Wilson a "special" QB, IMHO; not his athletic capabilities.

I don't know about "not in the same ballpark", but I still kind of agree with what you're saying. Watching that Seahawks game last night, I was definitely impressed by Wilson on the field, and from the interviews in the pregame its hard not to be impressed by him off field as well.

I hate the Seahawks, but that guy is solid.

I still think its not a completely fair comparison between Wilson and RGIII though. The team situations could not have been more different. Wilson has played two years in a stable organization on a team with a beastly defense in the stadium with the biggest home field advantage in the league. The list of advantages could go on and on. Its impossible to know how mature and poised and patient he would have been playing in this hot mess the past two years with the local fans and media calling for Kirk Cousins every time he doesn't complete a pass. Know what I'm saying?

SkinsJock wrote:Wilson benefitted from being better prepared to play in the NFL by his coaches when he started in 2012

Blah. He benefited from being drafted by a very good team without the pressure of being the number two pick that we traded three #1s to acquire. Its not like Pete Carroll is some NFL QB guru.

as someone recently pointed out - the Texans only won 2 games but they were very close in about 7 or 8 of the losses

I still think that Jay & Sean will find a way to mitigate the obvious strength they have with Watt and Clowney

and

I do not think that Fitzpatrick will have a very good day against a very aggressive defense

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Wilson benefitted from being better prepared to play in the NFL by his coaches when he started in 2012

Blah. He benefited from being drafted by a very good team without the pressure of being the number two pick that we traded three #1s to acquire. Its not like Pete Carroll is some NFL QB guru.

blah blah blah - I don't know who helped Wilson make the transition - he did get help, nobody helped Griffin

Griffin is now being helped and is learning how to play QB in the NFL - let's see where he is after a couple of seasons

Griffin felt ZERO pressure from being drafted #2 - he was just not prepared properly to play QB in the NFL

Griffin has put pressure on himself to be the best he can be since he first started competing - he does not 'feel' pressure, he thrives on it

Of course it is a lot easier when you get to hand off 30 times a game, throw 15-20 passes a game and have a defense that's allowed to be on drugs and play in a physical manner that no other team is allowed to. All Wilson has to do is not screw it up, sorry, he does not impress me. Most QBs in the league would have success in his situation.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:

markshark84 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Wilson has had a lot of help in making the transition ... that release time was awesome - Griffin is just beginning the process ...

we will see Griffin becoming more comfortable as time goes on - he's a better athlete than Wilson, he needs some time to show that he's a better QB and leader

Not saying that Griffin will become a better QB than Wilson but let's give him time to become as good as he can be



this will be a tough start but I really think that we will see a better game from our offense than many believe ...

100% agree that RGIII is a better athelete than Wilson --- and it isn't close. That being said, RGIII isn't even in the same ballpark as Wilson when it comes to maturity, poise, patience, and leadership by example. Those are the qualities that make Wilson a "special" QB, IMHO; not his athletic capabilities.

And Wilson has had help in the transition, but so has RGIII. I don't think Wilson has had more "help". The major advantage Wilson has had in his transition is 2 consecutive healthy seasons....... Which proves another advantage for Wilson ---- he knows how to avoid contact and/or slide.

RGIII needs to learn how to play more like Wilson. If he can come close to avoiding contact in a similar fashion to Wilson, he will have a good season. I truly believe that.

I hear your points. . But id like to raise it... had griff had that D where would we have gone? MUCH less has been asked of Wilson his entire career.. last night was bubble screens and short passes, he didnt even break 200 yards but got the W. I cant picture one game last year that RGiii puts those numbers up and it being enough to win. I like Wilson, but hes had a much better TEAM around him to become who he is- which still isnt a great passer.

He gets down, ob, and throwes the ball away much better then Griff has- but in the past Griff had to go all out to have a chance. Remember the 4th down play vs nyg? Both of them? Then the should be td to moss? Followed by a crappy D failing him.

100% understand. When I personally evaluate QBs, I put less emphasis on D when it comes to personal performance --- but do consider it when evaluate whether a QB "wins". Wilson's "performance" last night was EXTREMELY efficient: 67 QBR, 68% completion %, 2 TDs, 0 TOs, 7 rushes for 29 yards, 4 TDs in 5 redzone appearances. He literally didn't make a mistake. He didn't need to pass for over 200 yards; his yards per attempt were 6.8 which is ok.

As far as being asked less of Wilson, I think that RGIII has brought on a LOT of the expectation. He plays up the media, wears superman shirts and socks, does subway commercials, and talks about being great. Wilson is more reserved.

As far as that NYG game (are you talking about the first one in 2012?), that was a great game for RGIII --- it was actually numerically very similar to what Wilson did yesterday. RGIII had a great pass %, yards per pass, 89 yards rushing, 65 QBR. The MAJOR difference was total effiicency in that RGIII had 2 TOs, was sacked 3 times, and only put up 23 points --- all while having same TOP, similar rushing yards (when discounting for RGIII and Wilsons totals), MORE defensive TOs. We had 3 of our 4 TOs occur on the opponents side. Honestly, we lost the game by turning over the ball 4 times. Had we not done that, I am confident we would have scored over 30 points ---- and the D wouldn't have even been an issue.

riggofan wrote:

markshark84 wrote:100% agree that RGIII is a better athelete than Wilson --- and it isn't close. That being said, RGIII isn't even in the same ballpark as Wilson when it comes to maturity, poise, patience, and leadership by example. Those are the qualities that make Wilson a "special" QB, IMHO; not his athletic capabilities.

I still think its not a completely fair comparison between Wilson and RGIII though. The team situations could not have been more different. Wilson has played two years in a stable organization on a team with a beastly defense in the stadium with the biggest home field advantage in the league. The list of advantages could go on and on. Its impossible to know how mature and poised and patient he would have been playing in this hot mess the past two years with the local fans and media calling for Kirk Cousins every time he doesn't complete a pass. Know what I'm saying?

Oh I do. We as a fan base have been citing franchise instability as a reason for the lack of success for every QB we've had since Snyder took over. It is no secret I detest Snyder. He is the worst thing that could have happened to this franchise. I literally can't think of 1 thing he has done right (outside of perhaps getting Gibbs back for a short time) since he stole -- literally -- the franchise.

That being said, you have to play the hand you are dealt. And I don't agree with your statement that you don't know how mature/poised/patient a player is in this type of mess. To the contrary --- IMHO, that is EXACTLY how you find out. But I do understand ---- we just need RGIII to be exceptional.

Idk Markshark...

Your what ifs and fallacies go both ways...
Rgiii had a MUCH better Rookie year then Wilson- not equating to much more wins however. RG had to playb lights out or we lost.
He had a better td to turnover ratio, and the least amount of ints if im not mistaken?

Russel Wilson makes fewer mistakes because he is under less pressure- take the game last night. Rodgers was a hairboff and turned into an int, he was fighting his ass off to come back.. And had all the pressure on him (literally) while Wilsons errant throws were dropped by gb- he never HAD to make something happen.
I think having the confidence in his D is what makes him look cool and collected, because he knows he has the best in the biz, a stellar running game, and he doesnt have to put up Breezy like numbers to win.
Most any qb in the nfl could do what he did last night, with all do respect. There wasnt a single ahhh damn that was sick moment- at least for me.

Its a cop out to say rg3 creates the pressure on himself.. its there for any qb to dawn the b&g, but the kings ransom we gave up- with Cousins being taken in the same deaft is unique.

Look how many turnovers sheli put up last year- and not one churp for the back up. Hell Romo w his 5 int night and its no sweat. RG3 farts out loud and the cousins trolls are at the gates with pitch forks.

I dunnobifbi could handle what rg has to... but I sincerely hope Robert puts together another impressive year so we can all move on! Lol

SkinsJock wrote:In 2013 Texans were ranked 7 in total D - 3 against the pass and 25 against the run - they managed only 2 wins

Their DEF ranked dead last in Fantasy Football, so those numbers might be skewed a little bit. They obviously weren't getting the job done.

riggofan wrote: .. I still think its not a completely fair comparison between Wilson and RGIII though. The team situations could not have been more different. Wilson has played two years in a stable organization on a team with a beastly defense in the stadium with the biggest home field advantage in the league. The list of advantages could go on and on. Its impossible to know how mature and poised and patient he would have been playing in this hot mess the past two years with the local fans and media calling for Kirk Cousins every time he doesn't complete a pass.

^^ I'll agree with this

I'm looking forward to seeing Griffin showing that he's getting a grasp of what Jay and Sean are trying to do with the offensive game plan and how he's progressing with the change in how he both plays and manages the game

SkinsJock wrote:

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Wilson benefitted from being better prepared to play in the NFL by his coaches when he started in 2012

Blah. He benefited from being drafted by a very good team without the pressure of being the number two pick that we traded three #1s to acquire. Its not like Pete Carroll is some NFL QB guru.

blah blah blah - I don't know who helped Wilson make the transition - he did get help, nobody helped Griffin

Griffin is now being helped and is learning how to play QB in the NFL - let's see where he is after a couple of seasons

Griffin felt ZERO pressure from being drafted #2 - he was just not prepared properly to play QB in the NFL

Griffin has put pressure on himself to be the best he can be since he first started competing - he does not 'feel' pressure, he thrives on it

Its not insane what you're saying or anything - I just don't know what you're basing this opinion on. Did Griffin not have a QB coach here in Washington? Did he not have Kyle Shanahan, the same OC who had just helped Matt Schaub become a stud in Houston? Did Kyle not go to Texas to work with RGIII before his first minicamp ever started? Did he not play for Mike Shanahan, a former QB himself, who had coached guys like Elway and Jake Plummer?

He had all of those things. There was alot of dysfunction between the previous coaches and RGIII obviously, but I don't think anybody can reasonably write "nobody helped Griffin". That would literally mean he showed up here, they gave him a playbook and said, "Go figure it out yourself." There is no proof that Wilson has received more coaching at the QB position than RGIII.

RGIII was drafted into a much more challenging situation than Wilson. People forget what a mess this team was and what a miracle it was that we made the playoffs in 2012.

markshark84 wrote:That being said, you have to play the hand you are dealt. And I don't agree with your statement that you don't know how mature/poised/patient a player is in this type of mess. To the contrary --- IMHO, that is EXACTLY how you find out. But I do understand ---- we just need RGIII to be exceptional.

My statement was that we don't know how mature/poised/patient RUSSELL WILSON would have been if he'd been thrust into the Redskins mess that year. So I'm not sure how you can not agree with that statement unless you have access to alternate universes where you've seen that play out.

Your comparison is crap. Its like if Russell Wilson gets to drive up I-95 at 3AM in the morning in a 2014 BMW 3 series and is able to get from Woodbrige to DC in 20 minutes. Then RGIII has to make the same trip at 2pm in the afternoon driving a rusty 2000 Jetta and it takes him an hour and a half to get there. We can't all be jumping up and down that Wilson is such a better driver than RGIII. Whether they are playing the hands they are deal or not, its still not remotely apples::apples.

SkinsJock wrote:

riggofan wrote: .. I still think its not a completely fair comparison between Wilson and RGIII though. The team situations could not have been more different. Wilson has played two years in a stable organization on a team with a beastly defense in the stadium with the biggest home field advantage in the league. The list of advantages could go on and on. Its impossible to know how mature and poised and patient he would have been playing in this hot mess the past two years with the local fans and media calling for Kirk Cousins every time he doesn't complete a pass.

^^ I'll agree with this

I'm looking forward to seeing Griffin showing that he's getting a grasp of what Jay and Sean are trying to do with the offensive game plan and how he's progressing with the change in how he both plays and manages the game

Me too!!! He's not a dummy. And if he gets a little more help this year from the defense and STs, not constantly putting the offense behind early too, I think he'll be in good position to be successful.

DarthMonk wrote:
I've got $20 at 100 to 1 that says the Redskins do not end up with exactly 6 points.

You in, oj??

Too funny.

DarthMonk wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:
I've got $20 at 100 to 1 that says the Redskins do not end up with exactly 6 points.

You in, oj??

Too funny.

Hilarious! You should have bet him.

DarthMonk wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:
I've got $20 at 100 to 1 that says the Redskins do not end up with exactly 6 points.

You in, oj??

Too funny.

Now polumbis and st and Paulsen are off the hook... its clear who is REALLY ar fault for today!!!

Looks like you lost that bet..