The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

StorminMormon86 wrote:And, IIRC, the Skins were offered a third rounder for him last year but declined.

Can you show a link for that? The Browns offered a #4, and they were the most reported as being interested. Who offered a #3?

StorminMormon86 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:I haven't seen anyone say Cousins "sucks." He was a fourth round draft choice, and after two years the best offer we got for him was a fourth round draft choice. However, where that adds up to anyone wanting him to fail means there's something I "can't understand" doesn't compute.

StorminMormon86 wrote:People (not necessarily on here) have said Cousins sucks...

Ok, let's break it down this way: when people point out Griffin's flaws, some other people point out the struggles that Cousins had in the last three games last year, and then point out his stats in those 3 games. They're essentially saying, "yeah but look at what Cousins did when he had his chance". AKA, he sucked. And I disagree with that. You can't write him off after 4 starts. And I've never written Griffin off after 2 seasons. All I'm saying is that people better hope Cousins fixes his problems because there's a very good chance he'll be either coming into a game or having to start for us somewhere down the line this season.

That doesn't support anyone wanting Cousins to fail. He was fine for a fourth round second year draft pick with little game experience. Griffin's ceiling is far above his. We want Griffin to play. No duh. Support for Cousins being our backup is pretty universal, I see pretty much no one who wants to cut him or dump him. Saying that's us wanting him to fail does not compute. Saying we want him to fail is a good way to put people on the defensive and end any productive discussion on the topic though.

hanburgerheel wrote:I didn't mean to imply earlier that Luck was on the table. He was in that draft class and he is the best QB of that draft class is what I was saying.

I would be THRILLED to see Griffin perform and progress. I think it would be a huge boost for him, the team, the coaches and the fans. I would LOVE to see him surprise me, and many others, by proving us all wrong and set the woods on fire! I just see what I see in the guy and I simply do NOT expect it to happen. I'm really more concerned that Griffin doesn't fir well with Gruden's offensive scheme. It would seem like that would have been considered when hiring coaches. I would be elated to be proven wrong about Griffin. I'll order the most expensive crow to eat should that occur.

And in the mean time, you'll just be a fair weather fan? Griffin had a fantastic rookie season, a record setting one. He was clearly injured last year, the line sucked and the team was a circus. Now he's played less than a total game of pre-season, and you just hope he proves you wrong? I don't doubt your willingness, even eagerness to "eat crow." That doesn't change your status as a fair weather fan. Wow, after his rookie season, one year ago? Wow. That's just lame.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:That doesn't support anyone wanting Cousins to fail. He was fine for a fourth round second year draft pick with little game experience. Griffin's ceiling is far above his. We want Griffin to play. No duh. Support for Cousins being our backup is pretty universal, I see pretty much no one who wants to cut him or dump him. Saying that's us wanting him to fail does not compute. Saying we want him to fail is a good way to put people on the defensive and end any productive discussion on the topic though.

Ok, you don't think there will be fans highly critical of his every move if Cousins comes in for a game or two to replace Griffin due to injury? And vice versa if Cousins were to come in and light it up? It doesn't matter how you word it: the fanbase is already divided somewhat.

And with regards to the 3rd round pick, it may have been a typo. I've searched for it and the only things I'm seeing are the Browns offering a 4th rounder for him. But I know one article said that "a team" had offered a 3rd rounder for him.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:That doesn't support anyone wanting Cousins to fail. He was fine for a fourth round second year draft pick with little game experience. Griffin's ceiling is far above his. We want Griffin to play. No duh. Support for Cousins being our backup is pretty universal, I see pretty much no one who wants to cut him or dump him. Saying that's us wanting him to fail does not compute. Saying we want him to fail is a good way to put people on the defensive and end any productive discussion on the topic though.

Ok, you don't think there will be fans highly critical of his every move if Cousins comes in for a game or two to replace Griffin due to injury? And vice versa if Cousins were to come in and light it up? It doesn't matter how you word it: the fanbase is already divided somewhat.

Sure, the Redskins second string QB is the universally most popular guy in DC. Even the President is only liked by one party.

StorminMormon86 wrote:And with regards to the 3rd round pick, it may have been a typo. I've searched for it and the only things I'm seeing are the Browns offering a 4th rounder for him. But I know one article said that "a team" had offered a 3rd rounder for him.

Appreciate the honsty!

Yes, it was widely discussed, I understand why that was your impression. It's possible the Browns offered a #4 hoping to settle on a #3, that would just be speculation though. In the end, all I ever read actually offered was a #4.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
My concern with Cousins is his arm. It's like the Grossman days where he goes back, heaves it down the field, ten yards behind the receiver.

Griffin flicks his wrist and it zips to a receiver across and down the field. And his rookie year, he broke our trend of throwing to only cooley and moss and spread it around. He was off a year, I will grant you he's struggling right now, but there is no reason not to be patient, and every reason to be patient. He does have vision. He just has to get back in the rhythm. We really need our O line to step up and protect him and our D to get the O back on the field though to help the kid out.

If, by Kirk's arm, you are referring to strength, I think it's as strong as that of at least one all-time great. If you mean accuracy, I agree. Improved accuracy can make him a Bernie Kosar type.

IMO, Griff is probably the most physically gifted QB in the NFL. I don't think anyone else (including Newton and Vick) could have done this at the time:



He is also very smart. If he can simply reacquire the confidence that allowed him to pull the trigger as he did in his rookie year, he will be awesome.

For those who like citing C00ley, he agrees.

Unfortunately, Bob Griffin has turned into this ... Watch his head and knees.
A track star, who doesn't know how to protect himself, who lowers his shoulder and tries to run through people that outweigh him by 50 pounds, trying to play in the brutal NFL. I don't think he will last the season. (And all this in an EXHIBITION GAME no less!)

hanburgerheel wrote:I didn't mean to imply earlier that Luck was on the table. He was in that draft class and he is the best QB of that draft class is what I was saying.

I would be THRILLED to see Griffin perform and progress. I think it would be a huge boost for him, the team, the coaches and the fans. I would LOVE to see him surprise me, and many others, by proving us all wrong and set the woods on fire! I just see what I see in the guy and I simply do NOT expect it to happen. I'm really more concerned that Griffin doesn't fir well with Gruden's offensive scheme. It would seem like that would have been considered when hiring coaches. I would be elated to be proven wrong about Griffin. I'll order the most expensive crow to eat should that occur.

I will agree that Luck is the better QB of that draft class at this time

I actually was glad we took Robert because I felt that he would become a better NFL QB because of his athleticism - he showed glimpses of his arm strength and his running ability early on and I feel that if he'd been better coached and the transition from college to the NFL and been managed better he would have become a better NFL QB than we've seen - time will tell

I'm encouraged by how Gruden and Sean are working with Robert and trying to help him become a better NFL QB - I think that the Gruden hiring was a lot better for the Redskins going forward than bringing in a HC that might have tried a different approach here - there is a change in attitude here already and I think Robert is going to show that he's a great QB with this HC and OC

nobody knows for sure about what will happen here but some of us prefer to think that Robert's life has been filled with finding a way to be the best he can be and he's going to get to a higher level soon



The Redskins need to get out of the 'wait until next year' deal we've had since Snyder took over - I'm hopeful these guys can do it

HogHeaven1983 wrote:Unfortunately, Bob Griffin has turned into this ... Watch his head and knees.
A track star, who doesn't know how to protect himself, who lowers his shoulder and tries to run through people that outweigh him by 50 pounds, trying to play in the brutal NFL. I don't think he will last the season. (And all this in an EXHIBITION GAME no less!)

He better learn, huh?

It appears there are 3, at least borderline, helmet-to-helmet hits on the above play.

When Griff was first concussed by Atlanta, he slid (late-ish) yet was allowed to be demolished in the head. Other guys draw flags. Ever since Ramsey, it appears our QBs are allowed to be treated like rag dolls.



I saw a guy throw Griff the ground in the last preseason game and have seen far less flagged. I'm tired of it.

I read this in bleacher report by Aidan Reynolds ... "As Griffin indicated in his press conference, the offense goes where he goes. Right now, he's not going far.

However, to write the offense off based on the preseason would be foolish. There's still so much about Gruden's system that we don't know. Griffin has spent most of his time in the pocket because that's what he needs to work on.

The preseason is the place to do that.

When the regular season rolls around, we can expect to see an offense that leans more towards Griffin's natural abilities. Bootlegs, rollouts, short passes, shotgun and pistol snaps—everything that he did well in 2012.

Keeping these familiar concepts in the offense will raise Grffin's confidence, leading him to trust his instincts and make better decisions when in the pocket. His knowledge of the offense will increase with repetition, again leading to better decision-making .... "

we still have an issue with our offensive line but I think Griffin and Gruden will find ways to make the offense work better

Thank you Darth.
Look at the second defender actually JUMP to hit high!!! And Griff did protect him self well vs the first hit ping ponged instead of taking it full on..
Funny how he gets the blame for not sliding, like the second video, but no talk about the piss poor tackling and unnecessary shots the brown stains were taking in that clip. All three appear to be head hunting, yet Merriweather gets suspended when a guy lowers himself into his lowered target zone? I think Griff is hated on cus he is feared. Even some "fans" on here are afraid to see him really do well... luckily RG3 doesnt give a crap and aants to be the best...

HogHeaven1983 wrote:Unfortunately, Bob Griffin has turned into this ... Watch his head and knees.
A track star, who doesn't know how to protect himself, who lowers his shoulder and tries to run through people that outweigh him by 50 pounds, trying to play in the brutal NFL. I don't think he will last the season. (And all this in an EXHIBITION GAME no less!)

This is a prime example of the other, more likely, reason for his demise in the NFL. You can insist the referees are "not calling the hits" all you want, but this is American pro football. I can remember when hitting was really HITTING and it was expected. This inherent behavior that Griffin seems unable to "unlearn" is what will make him NFL toast even if he DOES become as good as his rookie season. Personally, I think he peaked that season, but I see this kind of performance and I know he will get mainline-tackled sooner or later and we will get to see Cousins anyway.

Way to support your guy...
being that hes a backup, wishing for injury to the actual guy is warranted huh?

DarthMonk wrote:

HogHeaven1983 wrote:Unfortunately, Bob Griffin has turned into this ... Watch his head and knees.
A track star, who doesn't know how to protect himself, who lowers his shoulder and tries to run through people that outweigh him by 50 pounds, trying to play in the brutal NFL. I don't think he will last the season. (And all this in an EXHIBITION GAME no less!)

He better learn, huh?

It appears there are 3, at least borderline, helmet-to-helmet hits on the above play.

When Griff was first concussed by Atlanta, he slid (late-ish) yet was allowed to be demolished in the head. Other guys draw flags. Ever since Ramsey, it appears our QBs are allowed to be treated like rag dolls.

I saw a guy throw Griff the ground in the last preseason game and have seen far less flagged. I'm tired of it.

I totally agree with you on the helmet to helmet hits. I see two really clear ones and the last one marginally so. Of course the NFL only punishes our players for helmet to helmet (Merriweather gets most of them). I hardly ever see other teams called for them. If Merriweather got a 2 game suspension, then those two Browns players also should have gotten a 2 game suspension. But in the NFL, a league of insider deals and favoritism, that will never happen.

How many game did Rice get banned for beating his wife senseless?

Rice beater got 2 as well.

#23 CLEARLY lunges at griffs head actually jumping up to do so...

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:#23 CLEARLY lunges at griffs head actually jumping up to do so...

Yes, I agree. There are hundreds of hits that "could be called" every game day! The point is not "should the defense be called for illegal hits"... the point is, your quarterback isn't disciplined enough, or smart enough to not put himself in such a dangerous position, game after game.

hanburgerheel wrote:

HogHeaven1983 wrote:Unfortunately, Bob Griffin has turned into this ... Watch his head and knees.
A track star, who doesn't know how to protect himself, who lowers his shoulder and tries to run through people that outweigh him by 50 pounds, trying to play in the brutal NFL. I don't think he will last the season. (And all this in an EXHIBITION GAME no less!)

This is a prime example of the other, more likely, reason for his demise in the NFL. You can insist the referees are "not calling the hits" all you want, but this is American pro football. I can remember when hitting was really HITTING and it was expected. This inherent behavior that Griffin seems unable to "unlearn" is what will make him NFL toast even if he DOES become as good as his rookie season. Personally, I think he peaked that season, but I see this kind of performance and I know he will get mainline-tackled sooner or later and we will get to see Cousins anyway.

Whatever. I agreed with your original post and pointed out something else that is clearly true.

Moving on ...

By the way ... he was more than a track star. He won the Heissmann, was ROTY, etc. He was a star football player as a rookie and there is no reason he cannot return to that form.

We all know he risks being hurt again and we all know why. Please stop

I think more people believe it today. I hope Griffin's injury is minor and he'll be healthy enough to play but Gruden would be stupid to sit Cousins now, Kirk thinks and executes fast enough to make the offense work.

I'd bet Cousins gets a least another few weeks to keep it going. Word is that Griffin has a dislocated ankle, which if true means there's a good chance he's done for the year.

DarthMonk wrote:

hanburgerheel wrote:

HogHeaven1983 wrote:Unfortunately, Bob Griffin has turned into this ... Watch his head and knees.
A track star, who doesn't know how to protect himself, who lowers his shoulder and tries to run through people that outweigh him by 50 pounds, trying to play in the brutal NFL. I don't think he will last the season. (And all this in an EXHIBITION GAME no less!)

This is a prime example of the other, more likely, reason for his demise in the NFL. You can insist the referees are "not calling the hits" all you want, but this is American pro football. I can remember when hitting was really HITTING and it was expected. This inherent behavior that Griffin seems unable to "unlearn" is what will make him NFL toast even if he DOES become as good as his rookie season. Personally, I think he peaked that season, but I see this kind of performance and I know he will get mainline-tackled sooner or later and we will get to see Cousins anyway.

Whatever. I agreed with your original post and pointed out something else that is clearly true.

Moving on ...

By the way ... he was more than a track star. He won the Heissmann, was ROTY, etc. He was a star football player as a rookie and there is no reason he cannot return to that form.

We all know he risks being hurt again and we all know why. Please stop

Have to pull for the quarterback starting each game, if thats Cousins or Robert, so be it. And yea it has been obnoxious from OldSchool.
Plus the back up qbs get the chicks lol.

OldSchool wrote:I think more people believe it today. I hope Griffin's injury is minor and he'll be healthy enough to play but Gruden would be stupid to sit Cousins now, Kirk thinks and executes fast enough to make the offense work.

Thats a refreshing post from you. Not trashing Robert. But, if Cousins plays like a consistent stud the next few games, play the hot hand. Maybe that will be Cousins. Time will tell.

EA7649 wrote:

OldSchool wrote:I think more people believe it today. I hope Griffin's injury is minor and he'll be healthy enough to play but Gruden would be stupid to sit Cousins now, Kirk thinks and executes fast enough to make the offense work.

Thats a refreshing post from you. Not trashing Robert. But, if Cousins plays like a consistent stud the next few games, play the hot hand. Maybe that will be Cousins. Time will tell.

I hope RG3 will be okay....had my heart stuck in my throat again when he went out, but I think it's clear to see who the spark plug of this offense is...

OldSchool wrote:I think more people believe it today. I hope Griffin's injury is minor and he'll be healthy enough to play but Gruden would be stupid to sit Cousins now, Kirk thinks and executes fast enough to make the offense work.

Way to take a moot point and declare victory... I'll bet Griffin is out for the season. 4-5 weeks would be Best Case scenario. I'd love to be wrong, and see a best case.
Ankle dislocations frequently require surgery due to ligament damage. Additionally, because of the location and the tight spaces involved, can occasionally cause irreparable nerve damage. This is an injury that can have serious consequences.... Reviewing the film, it looks like Griff did a good job of protecting his ankle ... but, it should be noted, that he completed that pass AFTER HIS INJURY OCCURRED, and KNOWING that something bad had happened. That's some serious concentration and focus. He will be back...

IF Cousins continues to play well, there WILL be a QB controversy... and one of the two will be moving somewhere else. If not... well... Griffin will be back and Cousins will be moving on. As impressive as this game was, next week will be a much more difficult test.

Griff was gonna go off on the jags tho man.. damnnn
Sucks when your starting qb gets seriously hurt and people get happy like it was a personal victory.

I hope Cousins leads us to the super bowl in Roberts wake.. but he will be back