The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

VRIEL1 wrote:LOL, how do I "FIX" this?

Fire Shanahan and Co.

Keep Allen.

Throw a ton of money at Charley Casserly to rework his magic as GM.
Then:

HC: Jon Gruden
OC: Jay Gruden
DC: Lovie Smith (Tampa Two)

Casserly??????? That is the L-A-S-T thing this franchise needs. He is the guy that started the spiral. He INHERITED a SB team and turned it into one of the worst teams in the NFL within 3 years. If I had to pick 5 guys that I'd want one of our NFC East rivals to pick up as a GM, Casserly would be in that top 5. There's a reason the dude has been out of the league for nearly a decade.

I also think we need to get away from the "big splash" HC hires. We tried it with Schott, Gibbs, and MS. Gibbs was the only relative success, but that is because he is one of the best 5 coaches of all time. What he did with the squad he had was probably more unbelievable than what he did in the 80s --- based on talent. We need to find a young up and comer and give him the leeway to succeed (i.e., Danny needs to stay away).

markshark84 wrote:

VRIEL1 wrote:LOL, how do I "FIX" this?

Fire Shanahan and Co.

Keep Allen.

Throw a ton of money at Charley Casserly to rework his magic as GM.
Then:

HC: Jon Gruden
OC: Jay Gruden
DC: Lovie Smith (Tampa Two)

Casserly??????? That is the L-A-S-T thing this franchise needs. He is the guy that started the spiral. He INHERITED a SB team and turned it into one of the worst teams in the NFL within 3 years. If I had to pick 5 guys that I'd want one of our NFC East rivals to pick up as a GM, Casserly would be in that top 5. There's a reason the dude has been out of the league for nearly a decade.

I also think we need to get away from the "big splash" HC hires. We tried it with Schott, Gibbs, and MS. Gibbs was the only relative success, but that is because he is one of the best 5 coaches of all time. What he did with the squad he had was probably more unbelievable than what he did in the 80s --- based on talent. We need to find a young up and comer and give him the leeway to succeed (i.e., Danny needs to stay away).

Kind of chuckled about Casserly too. Such a great example of how fans think. Casserly is a name people know.

I agree with you about the "big splash" hire. In my mind that is what hiring Cowher or Gruden would be about. Although I completely disagree about Marty. Snyder fired him way too soon which even he admits. He immediately left here and built a winner in San Diego.

The up and comer thing sounds great, but isn't that what Zorn was supposed to be? This is why I still think Mike Shanahan was the right coach to hire a few years ago. No Jim Zorn was going to come in here and have the clout to tell Snyder how to fix the underlying issues with the team. You know: fire Cerrato, get the books straightened out, stop chasing and overpaying every over the hill big name that comes our way.

If you'd like an up and comer though and still want a Gruden, maybe Jay Gruden would be the right guy?

One thing for sure - whomever is in charge next season, the defense is the top priority - we have some good guys but we need help at a lot of positions
btw - could Hall be a safety - he's a great CB … at times

the offense is actually not in as bad a shape - there are line issues and we need someone to take some pressure off Garcon but this will get done - I think that Robert having an offseason with his guys and his coach will help a lot - Kyle has shown that he can be a good OC - he needs to show that again

riggofan wrote:

markshark84 wrote:

VRIEL1 wrote:LOL, how do I "FIX" this?

Fire Shanahan and Co.

Keep Allen.

Throw a ton of money at Charley Casserly to rework his magic as GM.
Then:

HC: Jon Gruden
OC: Jay Gruden
DC: Lovie Smith (Tampa Two)

Casserly??????? That is the L-A-S-T thing this franchise needs. He is the guy that started the spiral. He INHERITED a SB team and turned it into one of the worst teams in the NFL within 3 years. If I had to pick 5 guys that I'd want one of our NFC East rivals to pick up as a GM, Casserly would be in that top 5. There's a reason the dude has been out of the league for nearly a decade.

I also think we need to get away from the "big splash" HC hires. We tried it with Schott, Gibbs, and MS. Gibbs was the only relative success, but that is because he is one of the best 5 coaches of all time. What he did with the squad he had was probably more unbelievable than what he did in the 80s --- based on talent. We need to find a young up and comer and give him the leeway to succeed (i.e., Danny needs to stay away).

Kind of chuckled about Casserly too. Such a great example of how fans think. Casserly is a name people know.

I agree with you about the "big splash" hire. In my mind that is what hiring Cowher or Gruden would be about. Although I completely disagree about Marty. Snyder fired him way too soon which even he admits. He immediately left here and built a winner in San Diego.

The up and comer thing sounds great, but isn't that what Zorn was supposed to be? This is why I still think Mike Shanahan was the right coach to hire a few years ago. No Jim Zorn was going to come in here and have the clout to tell Snyder how to fix the underlying issues with the team. You know: fire Cerrato, get the books straightened out, stop chasing and overpaying every over the hill big name that comes our way.

If you'd like an up and comer though and still want a Gruden, maybe Jay Gruden would be the right guy?

As far as Zorn --- that entire process was done -ss backwards. The way it should work is the Owner hires the GM, the GM hires the HC and scouts, the HC hires the coordinators and staff. With Zorn, the Owner hired some random non-GM designated individual in Cerrato, then the owner hired the OC. When people saw how idiotic they were being, every qualified candidate wanted nothing to do with it.

I also agree that MS wasn't a bad hire; I still don't. The team is in better shape than it was when he took over.

The franchise is now set up and managed as it should be …
we ARE in better shape - we have guys who have a plan and for the most part they have made good choices and good decisions about the staff, players and coaches

we just got awfully 'lucky' last season and I for one thought we were better at the beginning of this season than we obviously were

we do have a number of good coaches and players here & we have guys in charge here now that know what they're doing and how to get it 'fixed'


there have been some mistakes this season but I hope we give these guys 1 more shot

"Rome was not built in a day" and a consistently competitive team cannot happen in a few years from where we were in 2010
we were hoping for it but Mara & Goodell made sure that would not happen

SkinsJock wrote:The franchise is now set up and managed as it should be …
we ARE in better shape - we have guys who have a plan and for the most part they have made good choices and good decisions about the staff, players and coaches

we just got awfully 'lucky' last season and I for one thought we were better at the beginning of this season than we obviously were

we do have a number of good coaches and players here & we have guys in charge here now that know what they're doing and how to get it 'fixed'


there have been some mistakes this season but I hope we give these guys 1 more shot

"Rome was not built in a day" and a consistently competitive team cannot happen in a few years from where we were in 2010
we were hoping for it but Mara & Goodell made sure that would not happen

I am legitimately curious, how many more losing seasons will it take under the Shanahan regime for you to admit that they have done little to no good for this team?

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:The franchise is now set up and managed as it should be …
we ARE in better shape - we have guys who have a plan and for the most part they have made good choices and good decisions about the staff, players and coaches

we just got awfully 'lucky' last season and I for one thought we were better at the beginning of this season than we obviously were

we do have a number of good coaches and players here & we have guys in charge here now that know what they're doing and how to get it 'fixed'


there have been some mistakes this season but I hope we give these guys 1 more shot

"Rome was not built in a day" and a consistently competitive team cannot happen in a few years from where we were in 2010
we were hoping for it but Mara & Goodell made sure that would not happen

I am legitimately curious, how many more losing seasons will it take under the Shanahan regime for you to admit that they have done little to no good for this team?

I think SkinsJock is nearly complacent. When you have previous regimes that ran things abstract or unconventionally, then you have to understand why he has high hopes. I do. I hate the Shanahans being here but they give us normalcy.(For the most part) I wish I had my 80s team playing today but this is what we endure. This is much better than the near anarchy we were experiencing.

That's something dan synder has to ask himself.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:The franchise is now set up and managed as it should be …

we ARE in better shape - we have guys who have a plan and for the most part they have made good choices and good decisions about the staff, players and coaches

I am legitimately curious, how many more losing seasons will it take under the Shanahan regime for you to admit that they have done little to no good for this team?

Because you are not seeing the big picture here … Bruce and Mike have improved this franchise since 2009 - you're obviously only interested in wins - I'm more interested in seeing a consistently competitive product on the field each and every week - we are not there yet but we are a lot improved from when Mike and Bruce came in

I don't know about you but I realize now that last year's team that won 7 games in a row and finished 1st in the NFC East was NOT a good team

we are getting there but we're not playing well enough to win games right now

we do have our QB and we do have a number of other players that we can build a good team around

IT TAKES TIME - we are a better franchise than we were at the end of 2009

VRIEL1 wrote:Keep Allen.

Throw a ton of money at Charley Casserly to rework his magic as GM.

First of all, both are GMs, so how do you propose to keep Allen and then hire another GM?
Second, what Casserly magic? He didn't build the '91 team, Beathard did. Casserly really wasn't that good a GM.

Deadskins wrote:

VRIEL1 wrote:Keep Allen. Throw a ton of money at Charley Casserly to rework his magic as GM.

First of all, both are GMs, so how do you propose to keep Allen and then hire another GM?
Second, what Casserly magic? he didn't build the '91 team, Beathard did. Casserly really wasn't that good a GM.

+1 - hold all the calls, we have a winner …

c'mon guys - stop grasping at straws - we have a very good GM and the scouting department has done well the past 2 years …
we're going to see a lot of turnover - these guys need to continue to identify players that will fit with what we have & what the coaches want to do

SkinsJock wrote:I don't know about you but I realize now that last year's team that won 7 games in a row and finished 1st in the NFC East was NOT a good team

I don't agree with this. It was precisely because they were a good team that they were able to make that 7 game run. We had the same problems we have now but because they came together as a team, they were able to overcome those issues. If RGIII hadn't gotten injured, last year's team could easily have gone all the way.

"not a good team" was a little strong - they were a good team and they did make the most of their opportunities …
IMO - at the beginning of this season, last season's 'team' was not as good as we thought …

we were able to bring back our injured players on defense but we could not address the issues of the secondary or Fletcher's age

the O line was not close to being ready for the 'new' style of offense - this is a ZBS O line .. way too light and lacking in ability

the point is that we made some additions to the team but were not able to do near enough

SkinsJock wrote:"not a good team" was a little strong - they were a good team and they did make the most of their opportunities …
IMO - at the beginning of this season, last season's 'team' was not as good as we thought …

we were able to bring back our injured players on defense but we could not address the issues of the secondary or Fletcher's age

the O line was not close to being ready for the 'new' style of offense - this is a ZBS O line .. way too light and lacking in ability

the point is that we made some additions to the team but were not able to do near enough

We are #1 in rushing for the second straight year.

Deadskins wrote: … We are #1 in rushing for the second straight year.

OK - so this mean's what exactly? A bad team can have the #1 pass defense - a good team can have a bad rushing offense … what's your point?

we are not a good team in all facets of the game - we have the #1 rushing offense - we have won 3 games

we do somethings well for a part of the game and we a lot of things badly - that is not what a good team does

good teams find a way to play well in all facets of the game

we have a good QB, a good RB, a good TE, a good WR and a good LT - that should equate to something
we are NOT a good offense because:
- we do not have a good offensive line
- we do not call plays to suit the players we have on the field
- we make WAY too many mistakes … drop easy catches, run the wrong route, miss the critical block, miss the open receiver, not recognize what the defense is doing

a good team minimizes the effects from mistakes that all teams make - we are not able to do that

we were not a bad team last season but we also found a way to win some games by playing better than the other team NOT because we were a good team

Having the #1 rushing offense in the NFL and only winning 3 games is indicative of something and it's not good

StorminMormon86 wrote:I am legitimately curious, how many more losing seasons will it take under the Shanahan regime for you to admit that they have done little to no good for this team?

What's your magic number?

SkinsJock wrote:

Deadskins wrote: … We are #1 in rushing for the second straight year.

OK - so this mean's what exactly?

It means that this statement:

SkinsJock wrote:the O line was not close to being ready for the 'new' style of offense - this is a ZBS O line .. way too light and lacking in ability

is not true when it comes to run blocking.

Deadskins wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:

Deadskins wrote: … We are #1 in rushing for the second straight year.

OK - so this mean's what exactly?

It means that this statement:

SkinsJock wrote:the O line was not close to being ready for the 'new' style of offense - this is a ZBS O line .. way too light and lacking in ability

is not true when it comes to run blocking.

so - get off the fence - what do you think about this offensive line?

IMO - the offensive line needs upgrading - when you have the #1 rushing offense in the NFL and you cannot control the line of scrimmage, there is something wrong

the stats are misleading or very revealing, depending on how you 'interpret' them

I cetainly think we need some upgrades, on the o-line, but I also don't think folks give them credit for their run blocking. If we could pick up a blitz every now and again, that would help tremendously.

Irn-Bru wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:I am legitimately curious, how many more losing seasons will it take under the Shanahan regime for you to admit that they have done little to no good for this team?

What's your magic number?

There is no number. Snyder could fire the Shanahans today, and I would argue that they have already done plenty of good for the franchise.

1) Got Vinny Cerrato the hell out of here. Pushed Snyder out of football ops.
2) Cleaned up our terrible salary cap practices. Take a look at the amount of dead money on our books now compared to other teams. We only have something like $100K of dead money on the books. Compare that to the Cowboys who have $11M.
3) Four years of quality draft picks. Compare his picks with Cerrato.
4) Brought in Pierre Garcon.
5) Finally found a REAL KICKER. Anybody want to take a look at our history of kickers the past 20 years. Its the only thing worse than our history of QBs the past two decades.
6) Unexpectedly took us to a playoff game last year with a rookie QB.
7) This one is debatable but IMO drafted the player who should be our franchise QB for the next 5-7 years at least.

I've said this many times before, but if this is what we got from Shanahan the past four years, I am satisfied. Finally getting rid of Vinny was the best thing to happen to this franchise in a decade. Even St. Joe didn't do that for us.

If Shanahan gets another year to see what he can do with this team, I'm ok with it. If not, I think he's fixed a lot of issues and put down a foundation that the next coaching staff has something legit to work with.

Deadskins wrote:I cetainly think we need some upgrades, on the o-line, but I also don't think folks give them credit for their run blocking. If we could pick up a blitz every now and again, that would help tremendously.

I have to say that in looking for information to 'put down' the o-line I found a number of stats that would indicate that the offense has not been 'bad' this season OVERALL and the offensive line in particular has not let the offense down - there are a number of things that have NOT gone our way and caused this team to under perform

there is plenty of blame that can be directed at almost everyone on this roster - players and coaches have not done their jobs for the most part as well as they can

add this to the 'suggestion box'!! http://redskins.espn980.com/bloggers/ch ... ame-reside?

and this is interesting …

I don't agree with a lot of things Mike Shanahan says or does, but I am still of the belief that you have much less risk if you stay the course, as opposed to blowing up the foundation at Redskins Park.

I believe you point the finger elsewhere. Not just in one spot. Sorry kids, but Jon Gruden or some hot shot coordinator might have temporary success, but long term success is really hard to achieve and Shanahan's experience and philosophy still gives this team their best chance to succeed.

Will there be a year number five? It is becoming harder and harder to justify it for many reasons. I would say my current position is that Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder pull the plug, BUT if I was making the decision, I would give Shanahan one final year (as he was promised) to fix the mess.

riggofan wrote: … If Shanahan gets another year to see what he can do with this team, I'm ok with it.
If not, I think he's fixed a lot of issues and put down a foundation that the next coaching staff has something legit to work with.

I'll go with that

Irn-Bru wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:I am legitimately curious, how many more losing seasons will it take under the Shanahan regime for you to admit that they have done little to no good for this team?

What's your magic number?

I wouldn't lose any sleep if he was fired within 5 minutes from me posting this, honestly.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:I am legitimately curious, how many more losing seasons will it take under the Shanahan regime for you to admit that they have done little to no good for this team?

What's your magic number?

I wouldn't lose any sleep if he was fired within 5 minutes from me posting this, honestly.

So your magic number is one? Or, what, three seasons within four?

I'll make a prediction now: the next HC of this franchise will credit Shanahan for the foundation he and Allen set in place.