Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:19 pm
Didn't Jason Campbell go 8 games without a pick once?
just sayin...
just sayin...
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Countertrey wrote:Didn't Jason Campbell go 8 games without a pick once?
just sayin...
Chris Luva Luva wrote:Deadskins wrote:I'm not saying those things aren't true. But the fact remains that not turning the ball over outweighs those deficiencies in his game.
The lack of turnovers was huge, it was special. But when placed within the context of what he was asked to do. Having a scheme that make throwing lanes unusually large. Only being asked to make 1-2 reads a majority of the time. That's why the turnover ratio doesn't make him the best QB, thats why it doesn't outweigh his deficiencies.
If you put Robert in Lucks offense, his turnovers would have been a lot higher and possibly higher than Lucks. Luck was used to making multiple reads and going through progressions and he struggled. Robert was essentially given training wheels (WHICH WAS A GREAT IDEA AND MORE COACHES SHOULD DO IT), which made his transition easier. But let's not speak as if he was running a complicated offense, he wasn't.
Deadskins wrote:Chris Luva Luva wrote:Deadskins wrote:I'm not saying those things aren't true. But the fact remains that not turning the ball over outweighs those deficiencies in his game.
The lack of turnovers was huge, it was special. But when placed within the context of what he was asked to do. Having a scheme that make throwing lanes unusually large. Only being asked to make 1-2 reads a majority of the time. That's why the turnover ratio doesn't make him the best QB, thats why it doesn't outweigh his deficiencies.
If you put Robert in Lucks offense, his turnovers would have been a lot higher and possibly higher than Lucks. Luck was used to making multiple reads and going through progressions and he struggled. Robert was essentially given training wheels (WHICH WAS A GREAT IDEA AND MORE COACHES SHOULD DO IT), which made his transition easier. But let's not speak as if he was running a complicated offense, he wasn't.
So you say. I don't agree with you about the 1-2 reads either. On his first TD pass in the season opener, Garcon was read #3, and he was under pressure. I don't think his accuracy has anything to do with unusually large throwing lanes either. Maybe if he's rolled out. But more often than not, guys were covered, and he just put the ball in a perfect spot. Don't forget, he led the league in yards per reception too, so it's not like he was throwing high percentage dinks and dunks.
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Deadskins wrote:Chris Luva Luva wrote:Deadskins wrote:I'm not saying those things aren't true. But the fact remains that not turning the ball over outweighs those deficiencies in his game.
The lack of turnovers was huge, it was special. But when placed within the context of what he was asked to do. Having a scheme that make throwing lanes unusually large. Only being asked to make 1-2 reads a majority of the time. That's why the turnover ratio doesn't make him the best QB, thats why it doesn't outweigh his deficiencies.
If you put Robert in Lucks offense, his turnovers would have been a lot higher and possibly higher than Lucks. Luck was used to making multiple reads and going through progressions and he struggled. Robert was essentially given training wheels (WHICH WAS A GREAT IDEA AND MORE COACHES SHOULD DO IT), which made his transition easier. But let's not speak as if he was running a complicated offense, he wasn't.
So you say. I don't agree with you about the 1-2 reads either. On his first TD pass in the season opener, Garcon was read #3, and he was under pressure. I don't think his accuracy has anything to do with unusually large throwing lanes either. Maybe if he's rolled out. But more often than not, guys were covered, and he just put the ball in a perfect spot. Don't forget, he led the league in yards per reception too, so it's not like he was throwing high percentage dinks and dunks.
There's another stat on accuracy that takes into account the drops and tips too... It exists somewhere, what ever it is... And I remember RGiii one of, if not THE best on the list.
I disagree that his passing game was "easier then everyone else's" , it wasnt nearly as pedestrian as some people like to think...
A. It's still the NFL he played against, and professional D fences, and smart coordinators- some of em twice
B.Who he's throwing too- like a Megatron?! wouldn't even say we had Steve Smith caliber hands- week in and out at least (pittsburgh)
C.he did it consistently all year
Now of course I've seen him stare his guy down, show me a qb who never does, but I've also see him hit the 2nd look but AFTER he's gone through all his progressions... And look off a lb to free up someone on the opposite side. He probably can improve on that and his pump fakes, but I don't thing anyone, really, is leagues ahead of him in any department.
Chris Luva Luva wrote:cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Deadskins wrote:Chris Luva Luva wrote:Deadskins wrote:I'm not saying those things aren't true. But the fact remains that not turning the ball over outweighs those deficiencies in his game.
The lack of turnovers was huge, it was special. But when placed within the context of what he was asked to do. Having a scheme that make throwing lanes unusually large. Only being asked to make 1-2 reads a majority of the time. That's why the turnover ratio doesn't make him the best QB, thats why it doesn't outweigh his deficiencies.
If you put Robert in Lucks offense, his turnovers would have been a lot higher and possibly higher than Lucks. Luck was used to making multiple reads and going through progressions and he struggled. Robert was essentially given training wheels (WHICH WAS A GREAT IDEA AND MORE COACHES SHOULD DO IT), which made his transition easier. But let's not speak as if he was running a complicated offense, he wasn't.
So you say. I don't agree with you about the 1-2 reads either. On his first TD pass in the season opener, Garcon was read #3, and he was under pressure. I don't think his accuracy has anything to do with unusually large throwing lanes either. Maybe if he's rolled out. But more often than not, guys were covered, and he just put the ball in a perfect spot. Don't forget, he led the league in yards per reception too, so it's not like he was throwing high percentage dinks and dunks.
There's another stat on accuracy that takes into account the drops and tips too... It exists somewhere, what ever it is... And I remember RGiii one of, if not THE best on the list.
I disagree that his passing game was "easier then everyone else's" , it wasnt nearly as pedestrian as some people like to think...
A. It's still the NFL he played against, and professional D fences, and smart coordinators- some of em twice
B.Who he's throwing too- like a Megatron?! wouldn't even say we had Steve Smith caliber hands- week in and out at least (pittsburgh)
C.he did it consistently all year
Now of course I've seen him stare his guy down, show me a qb who never does, but I've also see him hit the 2nd look but AFTER he's gone through all his progressions... And look off a lb to free up someone on the opposite side. He probably can improve on that and his pump fakes, but I don't thing anyone, really, is leagues ahead of him in any department.
You're fooling yourself if you do not believe the read-option made throwing the ball unusually simple for Robert, Russell and Kap. It's all the media talked about, it paralyzes linebackers.
RG3 is great but you guys need to get a grip on reality. Nobody is discrediting him, but lets be honest about what's going on.
Chris Luva Luva wrote:cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Deadskins wrote:Chris Luva Luva wrote:Deadskins wrote:I'm not saying those things aren't true. But the fact remains that not turning the ball over outweighs those deficiencies in his game.
The lack of turnovers was huge, it was special. But when placed within the context of what he was asked to do. Having a scheme that make throwing lanes unusually large. Only being asked to make 1-2 reads a majority of the time. That's why the turnover ratio doesn't make him the best QB, thats why it doesn't outweigh his deficiencies.
If you put Robert in Lucks offense, his turnovers would have been a lot higher and possibly higher than Lucks. Luck was used to making multiple reads and going through progressions and he struggled. Robert was essentially given training wheels (WHICH WAS A GREAT IDEA AND MORE COACHES SHOULD DO IT), which made his transition easier. But let's not speak as if he was running a complicated offense, he wasn't.
So you say. I don't agree with you about the 1-2 reads either. On his first TD pass in the season opener, Garcon was read #3, and he was under pressure. I don't think his accuracy has anything to do with unusually large throwing lanes either. Maybe if he's rolled out. But more often than not, guys were covered, and he just put the ball in a perfect spot. Don't forget, he led the league in yards per reception too, so it's not like he was throwing high percentage dinks and dunks.
There's another stat on accuracy that takes into account the drops and tips too... It exists somewhere, what ever it is... And I remember RGiii one of, if not THE best on the list.
I disagree that his passing game was "easier then everyone else's" , it wasnt nearly as pedestrian as some people like to think...
A. It's still the NFL he played against, and professional D fences, and smart coordinators- some of em twice
B.Who he's throwing too- like a Megatron?! wouldn't even say we had Steve Smith caliber hands- week in and out at least (pittsburgh)
C.he did it consistently all year
Now of course I've seen him stare his guy down, show me a qb who never does, but I've also see him hit the 2nd look but AFTER he's gone through all his progressions... And look off a lb to free up someone on the opposite side. He probably can improve on that and his pump fakes, but I don't thing anyone, really, is leagues ahead of him in any department.
You're fooling yourself if you do not believe the read-option made throwing the ball unusually simple for Robert, Russell and Kap. It's all the media talked about, it paralyzes linebackers.
RG3 is great but you guys need to get a grip on reality. Nobody is discrediting him, but lets be honest about what's going on.
Chris Luva Luva wrote:You're fooling yourself if you do not believe the read-option made throwing the ball unusually simple for Robert, Russell and Kap.
Deadskins wrote:Chris Luva Luva wrote:You're fooling yourself if you do not believe the read-option made throwing the ball unusually simple for Robert, Russell and Kap.
If it were that simple, every team would be doing it, not just three.
Chris Luva Luva wrote:Deadskins wrote:Chris Luva Luva wrote:You're fooling yourself if you do not believe the read-option made throwing the ball unusually simple for Robert, Russell and Kap.
If it were that simple, every team would be doing it, not just three.
3 did it last year. We'll have a 4th in our division, this year. And we'll see where Geno goes, that's 5. And whoever else that may pop up.
I'm not saying it's THAT easy, but it makes the transition for this college kids a lot easier than just sticking them in an offense they're not accustomed to.
The Hogster wrote:Andrew Luck played in a Pro Style system for his entire college career. And, he went to team that runs one. So can't the same be said for him? Wouldn't it be just as tough for Luck to go from Pro Style to a Read Option or West Coast O?
I think RGIII is just revolutionizing the offense to the point where an NFL team started to use it--it worked so well that the Seahawks & 49ers added it midway through the year.
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:The play action- that help breezy, rodgers, and anyone else you want to name isn't much different imo.
Chris Luva Luva wrote:cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:The play action- that help breezy, rodgers, and anyone else you want to name isn't much different imo.
It's totally different. His legs make it different. He's reading the DE and making a decision.
Traditional PA has two variables. Read/Option introduces a third that further hinders a defense, this making it easier to exploit them.
Chris Luva Luva wrote:Lol never mind