The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Would love to see Griff play, but see this game as an opportunity to win with Cousins. If he looks good, we could be looking at a trade for a 1st rounder next year with a pretty poor QB class and a lot of teams looking for a QB.

The other benefit is giving Griff a week to rest and get ready for a stretch run. He was on fire after the bye. Would love to recharge for a playoff and super bowl run. This team is magical right now, and I think we could carry on for a game against the Browns. The Browns are a good team as well. I just think the Skins can beat them this week with Cousins.

riggofan wrote:

oj wrote:He was an olympic hurdler, i think, and is nearly flexible as a ballet dancer. No doubt his leg hurt like hell and he is doing everything possible from it getting stiff. But, he ain't down for the count and my money is on him being well enough to at least start the game.

+1.

I know that injury looked bad, but you guys need to look up what a "grade 1" sprain is. Its characterized by "Minimal tenderness and swelling". Ever rolled your ankle?

This.

He will be playing on Sunday, folks... I have personally experienced the magic of a little Celestone applied to a grade 1 sprain of the LCL...

emoses14 wrote:

gushogs wrote:1) If something is crystal clear to me, is that RG3 is a tuff guy and he will want to play, even if he isn't 100%. Has shown it all year, but coming back to play yesterday after the hit should be enough evidenceto anyone.
2) The mayor decision here would be allowing him to play if he's not 100%. Either way will stir a debate. If he plays and gets re-injured; if he doesn't play and the Skins lose; if he plays and we, win what woulda, coulda happen; if Kirk plays a great game someone will mention a QB controversy....

HaiL,

Of this I am positive, there will be no, nada, nyet, 0, zip, zilch quarterback controversy in any way shape or form no matter what happens in the next game. Period.

Of course there will... "Do we accept the offer from the Cardinals, from the Jets, or do we wait until someone is REALLY desperate for a quarterback of Captain Kirk's quality?"

the ravens team that beat the browns twice this season played a whole lot better than the ravens we just won against

this is going to be a tough game but the Redskins are playing with an attitude that is hard to fault

I think Mike and whomever is playing QB find a way to put enough points on the board for our defense to secure a win this week

Countertrey wrote:

emoses14 wrote:

gushogs wrote:1) If something is crystal clear to me, is that RG3 is a tuff guy and he will want to play, even if he isn't 100%. Has shown it all year, but coming back to play yesterday after the hit should be enough evidenceto anyone.
2) The mayor decision here would be allowing him to play if he's not 100%. Either way will stir a debate. If he plays and gets re-injured; if he doesn't play and the Skins lose; if he plays and we, win what woulda, coulda happen; if Kirk plays a great game someone will mention a QB controversy....

HaiL,

Of this I am positive, there will be no, nada, nyet, 0, zip, zilch quarterback controversy in any way shape or form no matter what happens in the next game. Period.

Of course there will... "Do we accept the offer from the Cardinals, from the Jets, or do we wait until someone is REALLY desperate for a quarterback of Captain Kirk's quality?"

My bad, too busy thinking linearly.

Father Says RGIII Will Play

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2012/12/10/rgiiis-father-says-qb-plans-to-play-sunday/

Robert Griffin Jr. says his son, the Redskins’ injured star quarterback, plans to play Sunday when Washington takes on the Cleveland Browns in Cleveland.

In text messages, Griffin said his son is doing “really good.” Asked whether he thought Griffin III could play Sunday he responded: “That is the plan.”

Redskins’ Coach Mike Shanahan said Monday afternoon that the quarterback has a “mild,” Grade 1 sprain of the lateral collateral ligament in his right knee, an injury he suffered when he was hit by Baltimore Ravens’ lineman Haloti Ngata during the waning minutes of Sunday’s game.

Shanahan would not reveal whether Griffin will play Sunday. He said most quarterbacks want to get back on the field but coaches must see how they fare in practice before making that decision.

Redskins left tackle Trent Williams said he also spoke to Griffin Monday and reported that the rookie is in “high spirits.” Williams refused to speculate on whether Griffin would play Sunday at Cleveland, however.
“He’s doing good, he’s in high spirits,” Williams said Monday afternoon. “We’re lucky. It was a pretty, nasty, awkward hit. For him not to be seriously injured, it’s a blessing.”

The Hogster wrote:Father Says RGIII Will Play

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2012/12/10/rgiiis-father-says-qb-plans-to-play-sunday/

Robert Griffin Jr. says his son, the Redskins’ injured star quarterback, plans to play Sunday when Washington takes on the Cleveland Browns in Cleveland.

In text messages, Griffin said his son is doing “really good.” Asked whether he thought Griffin III could play Sunday he responded: “That is the plan.”

Redskins’ Coach Mike Shanahan said Monday afternoon that the quarterback has a “mild,” Grade 1 sprain of the lateral collateral ligament in his right knee, an injury he suffered when he was hit by Baltimore Ravens’ lineman Haloti Ngata during the waning minutes of Sunday’s game.

Shanahan would not reveal whether Griffin will play Sunday. He said most quarterbacks want to get back on the field but coaches must see how they fare in practice before making that decision.

Redskins left tackle Trent Williams said he also spoke to Griffin Monday and reported that the rookie is in “high spirits.” Williams refused to speculate on whether Griffin would play Sunday at Cleveland, however.
“He’s doing good, he’s in high spirits,” Williams said Monday afternoon. “We’re lucky. It was a pretty, nasty, awkward hit. For him not to be seriously injured, it’s a blessing.”

Can't help but notice the special viciousness opposing players use when they get a chance to take him out. It seems unprecedented to me, and I've seen the best. Griffin seems to inspire unusual venom, probably because of all the publicity, as well as the frustration of being made look bad by his skills.

crazyhorse1 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:Father Says RGIII Will Play

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2012/12/10/rgiiis-father-says-qb-plans-to-play-sunday/

Robert Griffin Jr. says his son, the Redskins’ injured star quarterback, plans to play Sunday when Washington takes on the Cleveland Browns in Cleveland.

In text messages, Griffin said his son is doing “really good.” Asked whether he thought Griffin III could play Sunday he responded: “That is the plan.”

Redskins’ Coach Mike Shanahan said Monday afternoon that the quarterback has a “mild,” Grade 1 sprain of the lateral collateral ligament in his right knee, an injury he suffered when he was hit by Baltimore Ravens’ lineman Haloti Ngata during the waning minutes of Sunday’s game.

Shanahan would not reveal whether Griffin will play Sunday. He said most quarterbacks want to get back on the field but coaches must see how they fare in practice before making that decision.

Redskins left tackle Trent Williams said he also spoke to Griffin Monday and reported that the rookie is in “high spirits.” Williams refused to speculate on whether Griffin would play Sunday at Cleveland, however.
“He’s doing good, he’s in high spirits,” Williams said Monday afternoon. “We’re lucky. It was a pretty, nasty, awkward hit. For him not to be seriously injured, it’s a blessing.”

Can't help but notice the special viciousness opposing players use when they get a chance to take him out. It seems unprecedented to me, and I've seen the best. Griffin seems to inspire unusual venom, probably because of all the publicity, as well as the frustration of being made look bad by his skills.

I agree. People are trying to punish him.

chiefhog44 wrote:Would love to see Griff play, but see this game as an opportunity to win with Cousins. If he looks good, we could be looking at a trade for a 1st rounder next year with a pretty poor QB class and a lot of teams looking for a QB.

The other benefit is giving Griff a week to rest and get ready for a stretch run. He was on fire after the bye. Would love to recharge for a playoff and super bowl run. This team is magical right now, and I think we could carry on for a game against the Browns. The Browns are a good team as well. I just think the Skins can beat them this week with Cousins.

Chief, I don't think we can afford to rest Griffin if we want to make the playoffs. But I do like your thinking! It would be an amazing feat to recoup our 2013 first round pick that way.

rskin72 wrote:So, according to ESPN it is a grade 1 LCL sprain. Knee is swollen a little, and RGIII is receiving treatment for it.

Their expert also recommended that he rest for three or four weeks or risk reinjury.

crazyhorse1 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:Father Says RGIII Will Play

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2012/12/10/rgiiis-father-says-qb-plans-to-play-sunday/

Robert Griffin Jr. says his son, the Redskins’ injured star quarterback, plans to play Sunday when Washington takes on the Cleveland Browns in Cleveland.

In text messages, Griffin said his son is doing “really good.” Asked whether he thought Griffin III could play Sunday he responded: “That is the plan.”

Redskins’ Coach Mike Shanahan said Monday afternoon that the quarterback has a “mild,” Grade 1 sprain of the lateral collateral ligament in his right knee, an injury he suffered when he was hit by Baltimore Ravens’ lineman Haloti Ngata during the waning minutes of Sunday’s game.

Shanahan would not reveal whether Griffin will play Sunday. He said most quarterbacks want to get back on the field but coaches must see how they fare in practice before making that decision.

Redskins left tackle Trent Williams said he also spoke to Griffin Monday and reported that the rookie is in “high spirits.” Williams refused to speculate on whether Griffin would play Sunday at Cleveland, however.
“He’s doing good, he’s in high spirits,” Williams said Monday afternoon. “We’re lucky. It was a pretty, nasty, awkward hit. For him not to be seriously injured, it’s a blessing.”

Can't help but notice the special viciousness opposing players use when they get a chance to take him out. It seems unprecedented to me, and I've seen the best. Griffin seems to inspire unusual venom, probably because of all the publicity, as well as the frustration of being made look bad by his skills.

I think it's the only way they have to try and stop him. They are trying to knock him out of the game. Really, it's sort of a bounty situation when you think about it.

Three to four weeks of rest... hah.

These guys are football players. Fletcher has been playing on a sprained ankle for what four weeks now? 9 tackles and an INT on Sunday.

Deadskins wrote: .. I think it's the only way they have to try and stop him. They are trying to knock him out of the game. Really, it's sort of a bounty situation when you think about it.

I'll agree - but it's a perfectly legal and 'proper' way to play the game - by proper I mean it's the way the NFL is mean't to be played

This is a game in which 'the hard & tough play' - a good running back is a much more effective player if he runs hard - a good defensive player is one that hits opposing players hard - EACH AND EVERY TIME

defensive players have felt for years that the NFL has tried to protect the QB and the offensive players - the game involves defensive players trying to make offensive players 'slow down' and not be as 'quick'

I understand that defensive players are trying to take out Griffin - that is a part of the game

dirty hits are penalized but if you can take out the opposing team's best player - and the only penalty is a 15 yard personal plus a fine - that is the way the game is set up by the NFL

btw - The NFL does NOT want RG3 on the sidelines - NO WAY - this kid is worth a lot more to the NFL than he is to the Redskins

He's our savior NO DOUBT - he's a gold mine to the NFL - he could be the MVP in his rookie year - that's unbelievable

SkinsJock wrote:I understand that defensive players are trying to take out Griffin - that is a part of the game

Is it? I thought the game was to tackle him.

Countertrey wrote:"Do we accept the offer from the Cardinals, from the Jets, or do we wait until someone is REALLY desperate for a quarterback of Captain Kirk's quality?"

If DESPERATION is the key word here ...

We have Grossman READY to be shipped to Phoenix tomorrow.

I mean, he is an experienced QB and certainly an improvement over their current players. He deserves another chance elsewhere.

I would trade him for a second round pick, (between us, even a third).

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I understand that defensive players are trying to take out Griffin - that is a part of the game

Is it? I thought the game was to tackle him.

What did Gregg Williams say? "Cut off the head and the body dies". That was the reason for bounty-ball.

Of course, I like the way that Charley Taylor used to protect Sonny. It is now illegal, called a "crack-back" block, but Charley, all 215 - 220 pounds of ex-running back and college safety, would take a step down field, turn inward, and break the leg of any DT who took liberties with Sonny. I think Charley ended the career of a former Redskin named Crane who was playing DT for the Jets. In a pre-season game.

No, it's not nice...but I'm too old to be nice.

skinsfan#33 wrote:

riggofan wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:Not necessarily with regard to this hit but I really feel like guys are "out to get" Griff. I'm watching the Packer/Lion game and when Rodgers is vulnerable he simply is not targeted in the same way - not even by Suh. I also saw a guy go for Griff's head today on the sideline. Griff saw it coming, ducked, there was still helmet-to-helmet contact ... and no freaking call! What gives? Is it cuz he is a rookie with endorsements? Is it Bryce Harper getting thrown at in his first at bat? WTF? Guys are catching flags for trying to break up passes with good hits but guys are going after Griff's head EVERY WEEK and getting away with it.

I totally agree with you DarthMonk, and I know exactly which play you are talking about on the sideline yesterday. It was a little more obvious on the replays maybe, but the referees need to be looking out for RGIII. Guys are DEFINITELY out to get him.

I don't know if its guys hating on him as much as teams knowing they have to stop him somehow.

I would hope the league recognizes RGIII is one of the most exciting and marketable players to enter the league in a long time. They need to get these defenders in check before somebody hurts him seriously.

This isn't about RGIII scrambling either. I think the play he got hurt on was a freak thing and fair play from the Ravens. All these late shots and head shots he takes in the pocket are BS.

I'm sorry guys, the refs got a lot wrong in that game, but that play wasn't one of them. There wasn't a flag and shouldn't have been.

Here is why:
When a QB breaks the pocket and becomes a runner he is offered no more protection than than a RB. That means a blow to the head is not flagged.
Think about a RB running the ball. How many times do they take blows to the head?

You don't have to like it but there was nothing about that play that was illegal. Just like there was nothing that Niles Paul did that should have drawn a flag for interfering with a fair catch. The PF on DHall for hitting the Ratbirds WR may have been a late hit (debatable) but it absolutely wasn't what the refs called! It certainly wasn't a blow to the head. Hall hit the WR square in the chest with his shoulder. There was zero contact to the head or neck area.
Those plays weren't officiated correctly, but the play your complaining about was. Besides RG3 already had a bonus roughing penalty. The hit that took his helmet off was a legal hit. There was no contact to the head and it wasn't late and he didn't drive him to the ground. But what I found interesting was that there were offsetting penalties. Since when does a random penalty offset a personal foul. PFs always stand or overide the other penalties. I found that strange.

I don't think that it is correct that you are allowed to lead with the helmet (i.e. initiate helmet to helmet contact) merely because the QB is outside the pocket and running. He can be hit, but the NFL does NOT allow helmet to helmet hits, and I am waiting to see if the NFL reviews this play and fines the Buzzard who tried to decapitate RGIII.

Now.....it IS true that almost any D player will try to stick a QB....and while most (outside of Suh) probably do not want to intentionally cause permanent damage, if they can get a stud QB out of the game then all the better. Anyone remember one of our linebackers basically ending Aikman's career? That is part of the game, and RGIII's mistake vs the Buzzards was that he did not SLIDE. Maybe Ngata would have hit him anyhow, but then it would have been a flag at least. RGIII has to get a little smarter in taking hits....and how he gets hit. He will be our stud QB for years IF he stays healthy.

Here is a link to the NFL rule (Rule 12 section 2 article on helmet to helmet hits.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2010/10/nf ... article-8/

rskin72 wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

riggofan wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:Not necessarily with regard to this hit but I really feel like guys are "out to get" Griff. I'm watching the Packer/Lion game and when Rodgers is vulnerable he simply is not targeted in the same way - not even by Suh. I also saw a guy go for Griff's head today on the sideline. Griff saw it coming, ducked, there was still helmet-to-helmet contact ... and no freaking call! What gives? Is it cuz he is a rookie with endorsements? Is it Bryce Harper getting thrown at in his first at bat? WTF? Guys are catching flags for trying to break up passes with good hits but guys are going after Griff's head EVERY WEEK and getting away with it.

I totally agree with you DarthMonk, and I know exactly which play you are talking about on the sideline yesterday. It was a little more obvious on the replays maybe, but the referees need to be looking out for RGIII. Guys are DEFINITELY out to get him.

I don't know if its guys hating on him as much as teams knowing they have to stop him somehow.

I would hope the league recognizes RGIII is one of the most exciting and marketable players to enter the league in a long time. They need to get these defenders in check before somebody hurts him seriously.

This isn't about RGIII scrambling either. I think the play he got hurt on was a freak thing and fair play from the Ravens. All these late shots and head shots he takes in the pocket are BS.

I'm sorry guys, the refs got a lot wrong in that game, but that play wasn't one of them. There wasn't a flag and shouldn't have been.

Here is why:
When a QB breaks the pocket and becomes a runner he is offered no more protection than than a RB. That means a blow to the head is not flagged.
Think about a RB running the ball. How many times do they take blows to the head?

You don't have to like it but there was nothing about that play that was illegal. Just like there was nothing that Niles Paul did that should have drawn a flag for interfering with a fair catch. The PF on DHall for hitting the Ratbirds WR may have been a late hit (debatable) but it absolutely wasn't what the refs called! It certainly wasn't a blow to the head. Hall hit the WR square in the chest with his shoulder. There was zero contact to the head or neck area.
Those plays weren't officiated correctly, but the play your complaining about was. Besides RG3 already had a bonus roughing penalty. The hit that took his helmet off was a legal hit. There was no contact to the head and it wasn't late and he didn't drive him to the ground. But what I found interesting was that there were offsetting penalties. Since when does a random penalty offset a personal foul. PFs always stand or overide the other penalties. I found that strange.

I don't think that it is correct that you are allowed to lead with the helmet (i.e. initiate helmet to helmet contact) merely because the QB is outside the pocket and running. He can be hit, but the NFL does NOT allow helmet to helmet hits, and I am waiting to see if the NFL reviews this play and fines the Buzzard who tried to decapitate RGIII.

Now.....it IS true that almost any D player will try to stick a QB....and while most (outside of Suh) probably do not want to intentionally cause permanent damage, if they can get a stud QB out of the game then all the better. Anyone remember one of our linebackers basically ending Aikman's career? That is part of the game, and RGIII's mistake vs the Buzzards was that he did not SLIDE. Maybe Ngata would have hit him anyhow, but then it would have been a flag at least. RGIII has to get a little smarter in taking hits....and how he gets hit. He will be our stud QB for years IF he stays healthy.

Here is a link to the NFL rule (Rule 12 section 2 article on helmet to helmet hits.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2010/10/nf ... article-8/

Your link explicitly states "violent or unnecessary use of the helmet is impermissible against any opponent..." Thanks.

It does not even have to be hemet-to-helmet to be called. The sideline hit mentioned at the top of this quoted post was patently illegal. The call was blown. JUST saw it on NFL Replay. It was on the same drive as the injury.

In fact, ON THE PLAY BEFORE THE INJURY 2 guys hit Griff at/below the knees in the pocket then another guy hits him high. I though at/below the knees in the pocket was illeagal too. WTF??

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I understand that defensive players are trying to take out Griffin - that is a part of the game

Is it? I thought the game was to tackle him.

If you think that defensive players are only interested in making a hard tackle on the most valuable player on another team - you are not in touch

If a defensive player can take out or force an opposing player to leave the field - ESPECIALLY the other teams best player - they will do that on each and every tackle

I used to love what our defensive players did to Troy - even Joe T admits that LT's hit was really a good hit - even though it broke his leg

any defensive player would love to make a clean hit on a QB and force him to miss a few games - hell, a lot of them will try illegal hits too

that's what this game is all about - hitting other players hard and trying to affect their mobility

SkinsJock wrote:

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I understand that defensive players are trying to take out Griffin - that is a part of the game

Is it? I thought the game was to tackle him.

If you think that defensive players are only interested in making a hard tackle on the most valuable player on another team - you are not in touch

If a defensive player can take out or force an opposing player to leave the field - ESPECIALLY the other teams best player - they will do that on each and every tackle

I used to love what our defensive players did to Troy - even Joe T admits that LT's hit was really a good hit - even though it broke his leg

any defensive player would love to make a clean hit on a QB and force him to miss a few games - hell, a lot of them will try illegal hits too

that's what this game is all about - hitting other players hard and trying to affect their mobility

Soooo every team has a bounty system right? Guess that's the saints argument huh...

The hit on Griffin was illegal - the ref missed it or he would have called it


One of the 'benefits' of being a league poster child as RG3 has quickly become is that he will get a lot of these calls going his way

The NFL does not want any of their pin-up boys on the sidelines

Redskin in Canada wrote:We have Grossman READY to be shipped to Phoenix tomorrow.

I mean, he is an experienced QB and certainly an improvement over their current players. He deserves another chance elsewhere.

I would trade him for a second round pick, (between us, even a third).

I'd trade him for a ham sandwich and a bag of chips. If I could get a Coke too, that would be gravy.

Deadskins wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:We have Grossman READY to be shipped to Phoenix tomorrow.

I mean, he is an experienced QB and certainly an improvement over their current players. He deserves another chance elsewhere.

I would trade him for a second round pick, (between us, even a third).

I'd trade him for a ham sandwich and a bag of chips. If I could get a Coke too, that would be gravy.

I'd buy that for a dollar ... if I could get change back.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:.. Soooo every team has a bounty system right? Guess that's the saints argument huh...

- I wasn't going to comment but ... why do you constantly try to make stuff up?

ALL NFL defensive players try to hit offensive players VERY HARD - they will even make illegal hits if they think they can both get away with it and maybe even cause the player to miss a series or two (EVEN BETTER - take the other teams best player out of the game

it's not a "bounty system" - this is the NFL and hard tackling is encouraged

ALL defensive players would love to take out the opposing team's best player with a good hard hit

Robert Griffin III will be the beneficiary of some calls BECAUSE he's now one of the NFL's 'poster child' players

the helmet to helmet hit was missed but the refs will be looking to protect him - the NFL will try and 'protect' RG3 but RG3 also has to understand that he cannot let players get a good shot at him because if they can 'take him out', they will - that is 'good' football



btw - I'm glad G Williams is in so much trouble - it's clear to me he wanted and encouraged his defensive players to take out opposing players and IMO there WAS a bounty system in place

DarthMonk wrote:

rskin72 wrote:
Your link explicitly states "violent or unnecessary use of the helmet is impermissible against any opponent..." Thanks.

It does not even have to be hemet-to-helmet to be called. The sideline hit mentioned at the top of this quoted post was patently illegal. The call was blown. JUST saw it on NFL Replay. It was on the same drive as the injury.

I read that link and I've always know that any player could be flagged for a hit with their helmet to any player, but what I also know is that rule is NEVER enforced that way. I'll give you a perfect example:
When one of our players put McCoy out in the Egirls game out was a clear helmet to helmet hit. He wasn't flagged or fined.

RBs take shots to the head all the time. As far as the NFL rules are concerned, RG3 became a RB once he broke the pocket and started running the ball. While the hit MAY technically have been illegal, but in reality thay type of hit almost never gets flagged.

I didn't notice the hits to the leg, but I'll go back and look at it. The hit that chapped my butt earlier in the year was the hit Ryan "the head hunter" Clark put on Griffin when he went out for that I'll fated pass for Josh Morgan. That was clearly a helmet to helmet hit where Clark lauched himself at Robert's head. Because it was a QB instead of a WR it shouldn't have mattered because at that time RG3 was a defenseless receiver, but it did matter...no flag, no fine. If that had been a WR, Clark would have gotten a yellow hanky and a FedEx package.

Face it there is a double standard when it comes to "running QBs" and other QBs. Once a player like Griffin takes off he is now being sen as a RB by the refs. If that was a Manning, Brady, or Breese, they might get the flag, but the shouldn't.