The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

CanesSkins26 wrote:If 2.5 years isnt enough, how do you explain the Colts' turnaround? Do you really think that they have more talent than the Redskins? A 2-14 team is now 5-3, and they are in year 1 of a switch to a 3-4 and playing better than our D in year 3. And all of this with their head coach away from the team fighting cancer.

They already had a good team, they just needed a good QB. Peyton left they were garbage. They now have another QB and they're decent.

Is it not dead obvious that the QB makes/breaks that team? Is it not obvious that the organization was run effectively prior to the new coach coming in?

Pagano didn't have to clear 100M of badly spent money.
Pagano didn't have to overhaul the bench.
Pagano didn't have to overhaul the starters.
Pagano didn't have build a training facility.
Pagano didn't have money stolen from him by a divisional rival.
Pagano didn't have to hire new personal trainers for the team.
Pagano didn't come into his job without draft picks.

It's not an apples to apples comparison. Neither is the situation in San Francisco. You all don't or simply refuse to acknowledge that this entire organization was completely and totally ****ED. Ignore it all you want, it wont change that it's a fact.

-Joe Gibbs couldn't overcome it. ( u can bring up his playoff appearances but they were flukish. they aren't sustainable, nor consistent. and they barely got in.) Fine, it was great at the moment. But it's nothing to hand ur hat on.
-Zorn couldn't overcome it.
-Spurrier.
-Norv.
-Marty wasn't given a chance.

Get real folks. This isn't a two year deal. It's going to take time. And tearing it all to shreds is just going to give you more of the same.

But just like when The Poster was here, you all don't learn from your mistakes when it's staring u in ur face. You're gluttons for punishment and that's what you got and that's what you'll continue to get. (not directed at anyone in particular)

fetus wrote:Honestly do you really want to rid RG3 of the coaching staff and scheme that he fits into???

Oh yeah they do. And they'll act like they didn't want it 3 years from now. It's idiotic.

Dan is a fan. Dan thinks like they do and thats why the team has sucked under his tenure. It's the EXACT SAME IMPULSIVE, WHINY, TEMPER TANTRUM "GIVE IT TO ME NOW" though processes. He's a fan. They're a fan. They hate him, yet they ARE HIM.

Emotional "initiatives" to demand the immediate dismissal of coaches surely work ...

No movement until the end of the season, please.

The Colts were a good team? They gutted their roster this offseason. They released or lost 15 players, including Manning (obviously), Addai, Gary Brackett, Dallas Clarck, Garçon, Melvin Bullitt, Anthony Gonzalez, and Jeff Saturday. Here is their final 53 man roster from the offseason...

[url]rapidreports/20009421/indianapolis-colts-final-53man-roster[/url]

That roster has less overall talent than ours does and they have suffered some big injuries on defense like we have. Yet in year one, with their coach away from the team, and in the first year of a switch to a 3-4 (which in Redskins land takes at least 3 years to implement apparently) they are farther along in their rebuild than we are. You can make all the excuses that you want (practice bubble, really?), but we should be seeing more tangible results in year 3 than we are currently seeing.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

DaSkinz Baby wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

DaSkinz Baby wrote:It's pretty sad when Jim Zorn and Steve Spurrier has a better winning percentage then this 2 time SB winning coach

What a stupid post. The comparison ignoring their their objectives of their first teams here and what they inherited is just complete fail.

No the stupidity is the inability to understand that Shanahan is and has been over-rated. If you look at records it would appear the team Shanahan inherited was better than the players he has brought in. 3 years in and the defense is worse then what it was when he came. The only thing we can show as progress is RG3 and Alfred Morris and with the bush league calls Kyle calls RG3 will have brain damage before this year is over and Alfred Morris will be also be ran into the ground like he did Terrell Davis.......

Then make the point with good arguments. Shannahan is trying to build a successful franchise. Comparing that after a couple years to the record of guys who were just trying to win games is a terrible argument.

He said "It's pretty sad ..." Is anyone disputing that?

DarthMonk

Yes, I'm disputing that. I want a coach to teach solid football to a team and instill a never say die attitude. He got a team that needed to be built. Comparing that to two guys who were not ready for prime time over the first two years of their administrations is what's sad. I am happy we have a good coach who's building an organization, there is nothing sad about that at all.

Crap. It is sad his record is worse than those mentioned. It's certainly not happy. Give us all a break.



BTW - What Shanny said after the game is also sad. Very sad.

CLL wrote:Dan is a fan. Dan thinks like they do and thats why the team has sucked under his tenure. It's the EXACT SAME IMPULSIVE, WHINY, TEMPER TANTRUM "GIVE IT TO ME NOW" though processes. He's a fan. They're a fan. They hate him, yet they ARE HIM.

I think every Redskins fan's nightmare is the idea that they are Dan Snyder.

What Shanny said was taken out of context. However, he left it open to interpretation. And for someone who doesn't have a good relationship with the media, he brought this on himself.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:What Shanny said was taken out of context. However, he left it open to interpretation. And for someone who doesn't have a good relationship with the media, he brought this on himself.

Ohhhhh I am not sure he was "misinterpreted". The text is there to be read or the recorded video to be watched and listened to. Not much to misinterpret right there.

But yes, he brought this onto himself. When players and fans "misinterpret", it is a very strange coindcidence. No Chris, he just should have put his foot in his mout and do not let the emotional side take over.

He said: time to evaluate players ... well, automatically, that becomes "let us evaluate players AND ... coaches too.

I am not advocating firing of any coaches now. I do not support any change before the end of the season but he is bringing trouble onto himself that he, the team and the fans do not need right now.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:What Shanny said was taken out of context. However, he left it open to interpretation.
And for someone who doesn't have a good relationship with the media, he brought this on himself.

+1

Hopefully the stupid owner lets this season play out

A good coach, be it OC, DC or HC finds a way to get the most out of the players he has and that is what is needed here

Mike and Bruce have begun the mending and deserve more time

however .... they all need to do their jobs a lot better - this is not about having the 'talent' to 'get the job done' - this is about both the players and the coaches doing a better job than they've shown here this season

I do not like Belicheat but I respect him for adapting his defense and his offense to the players he has available - that is what Mike needs to demand and get from his DC and OC AND from the players as well

I think the players understand what Mike really mean't by his comments after the game - they will respond

Kyle and Jim need to do a MUCH better job within the realm of their responsibilities as well



as someone else said here - this is not so much about the wins and losses it's about how they win or lose - the players and coaches that put in the effort and drive to succeed will be here to reap the benefits that will come from being on this team with RG3

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Contrary to the belief of armchair fans like Ray, 2 1/2 year is not long enough to overhaul a roster and build a winning organization when we were as bad as we were. I expect to see progress this year, and I did. I expect to see more progress next year. If at the end of year four we're still 6-10 or so, then yeah, you're getting my attention. But advocating starting over now is just crazy.

If 2.5 years isnt enough, how do you explain the Colts' turnaround? Do you really think that they have more talent than the Redskins? A 2-14 team is now 5-3, and they are in year 1 of a switch to a 3-4 and playing better than our D in year 3. And all of this with their head coach away from the team fighting cancer.

Bingo!! So many "fans" on here take what Shanahan says as Gospel. Sorry every other team can redo a roster in about 2 years. This team wasn't that bad to start with. I see the Colts, Saints, Lions, Falcons to name a few of other teams that had a quick turn around. But yet Daniel Snyder and all the money he has can't do it? BULLNUTS!! Snyder is about Marketing not winning. He brings in past their prime players, over rated players, and now used a "dated" past his prime coach to lure us in. RG3 is a franchise QB and will be destroyed with these fools in charge. Patrick Ramsey was the last franchise QB we had that we destroyed.

When the team is losing again next season, what will the excuses for Shanahan be?

[quote="DaSkinz Baby"][quote="CanesSkins26"][quote]Patrick Ramsey wa the last franchise QB we had that we destroyed.[/quoteI

I liked Patrick Ramsey but I don't think he was a franchise QB. Maybe he could have been a good one but not a franchise QB

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:If 2.5 years isnt enough, how do you explain the Colts' turnaround? Do you really think that they have more talent than the Redskins? A 2-14 team is now 5-3, and they are in year 1 of a switch to a 3-4 and playing better than our D in year 3. And all of this with their head coach away from the team fighting cancer.

They already had a good team, they just needed a good QB. Peyton left they were garbage. They now have another QB and they're decent.

Is it not dead obvious that the QB makes/breaks that team? Is it not obvious that the organization was run effectively prior to the new coach coming in?

Pagano didn't have to clear 100M of badly spent money.
Pagano didn't have to overhaul the bench.
Pagano didn't have to overhaul the starters.
Pagano didn't have build a training facility.
Pagano didn't have money stolen from him by a divisional rival.
Pagano didn't have to hire new personal trainers for the team.
Pagano didn't come into his job without draft picks.

It's not an apples to apples comparison. Neither is the situation in San Francisco. You all don't or simply refuse to acknowledge that this entire organization was completely and totally ****ED. Ignore it all you want, it wont change that it's a fact.

-Joe Gibbs couldn't overcome it. ( u can bring up his playoff appearances but they were flukish. they aren't sustainable, nor consistent. and they barely got in.) Fine, it was great at the moment. But it's nothing to hand ur hat on.
-Zorn couldn't overcome it.
-Spurrier.
-Norv.
-Marty wasn't given a chance.

Get real folks. This isn't a two year deal. It's going to take time. And tearing it all to shreds is just going to give you more of the same.

But just like when The Poster was here, you all don't learn from your mistakes when it's staring u in ur face. You're gluttons for punishment and that's what you got and that's what you'll continue to get. (not directed at anyone in particular)

fetus wrote:Honestly do you really want to rid RG3 of the coaching staff and scheme that he fits into???

Oh yeah they do. And they'll act like they didn't want it 3 years from now. It's idiotic.

Dan is a fan. Dan thinks like they do and thats why the team has sucked under his tenure. It's the EXACT SAME IMPULSIVE, WHINY, TEMPER TANTRUM "GIVE IT TO ME NOW" though processes. He's a fan. They're a fan. They hate him, yet they ARE HIM.

Dude sorry but I simply disagree. There have been several teams that didn't have the talent was supposedly had/have that in 2 years tops were playoff teams. The only consistent Mike Shanahan has created since being here is winning game one, but by mid season we go on a 4-6 game losing streak. The injuries constantly suffered here is a direct indication that they aren't doing what they need to do to sustain health. Again this starts from the top and Daniel Snyder is more worried about marketing and making money than building a winner. The final straw was Shanahan pretty much admitting he came back to help his son. Mike has won his 2 superbowls and Elway and Davis pretty much assure him a bust in Canton oneday. All that is left for him is to pillage a foolish owner, case in point Daniel Snyder to the tune of 35 million and get your son some experience and know how and ride off into the sunset after his 5th year. Shanahan and his whole coaching staff should be removed ASAP and let's not even go into him giving of all people Jim Haslett an extension this past summer? As Defensive Coordinator he wasn't even smart enough to get Carlos Rogers eye's checked......But he brings is Hall and Wilson as starting CB's and they have been burned like a cheap cigar consistently. This whole coaching staff the owner and many fans REEK.....seriously....

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Contrary to the belief of armchair fans like Ray, 2 1/2 year is not long enough to overhaul a roster and build a winning organization when we were as bad as we were. I expect to see progress this year, and I did. I expect to see more progress next year. If at the end of year four we're still 6-10 or so, then yeah, you're getting my attention. But advocating starting over now is just crazy.

If 2.5 years isnt enough, how do you explain the Colts' turnaround? Do you really think that they have more talent than the Redskins? A 2-14 team is now 5-3, and they are in year 1 of a switch to a 3-4 and playing better than our D in year 3. And all of this with their head coach away from the team fighting cancer.

I always love the "Tom Brady" argument. I actually don't need to "explain" anyone who turned around in less than 2.5 years to argue that it's not normal. There are 32 teams, many of them bad and most of them stay that way more than 2.5 years. And you didn't even support the Colts were as bad as all around bad as our Jim Zorn team was, you just pointed to a one year record.

CanesSkins26 wrote:The Colts were a good team? They gutted their roster this offseason. They released or lost 15 players, including Manning (obviously), Addai, Gary Brackett, Dallas Clarck, Garçon, Melvin Bullitt, Anthony Gonzalez, and Jeff Saturday. Here is their final 53 man roster from the offseason...

[url]rapidreports/20009421/indianapolis-colts-final-53man-roster[/url]

That roster has less overall talent than ours does and they have suffered some big injuries on defense like we have. Yet in year one, with their coach away from the team, and in the first year of a switch to a 3-4 (which in Redskins land takes at least 3 years to implement apparently) they are farther along in their rebuild than we are. You can make all the excuses that you want (practice bubble, really?), but we should be seeing more tangible results in year 3 than we are currently seeing.

You identified one team that turned around in less then 2.5 years, therefore we should fire Shannahan. Wow, you convinced me.

Irn-Bru wrote:

CLL wrote:Dan is a fan. Dan thinks like they do and thats why the team has sucked under his tenure. It's the EXACT SAME IMPULSIVE, WHINY, TEMPER TANTRUM "GIVE IT TO ME NOW" though processes. He's a fan. They're a fan. They hate him, yet they ARE HIM.

I think every Redskins fan's nightmare is the idea that they are Dan Snyder.

Most of the stuff I'm reading the last few days on here reminds me of the poster post. How can you hate on someone's post then turn arond and post the some stuff.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:What Shanny said was taken out of context. However, he left it open to interpretation. And for someone who doesn't have a good relationship with the media, he brought this on himself.

Well put, Chris. I agree with this.

DaSkinz Baby wrote:This whole coaching staff the owner and many fans REEK.....seriously....

If we fire our coach every two years, we will never be good...seriously...

spenser wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote: Just had a bad couple games. Every team has them

Yea, just sucks that we've had a bad couple of games, every couple of weeks for a couple of decades.

I think we let Rat face finish the season, and depending whether we fight and finish hot or at least improving, or if the team quits will be the indicator if we break out the Cheddar, load up the trap and Rid ourselves of the rat. Seriously dude has a rodent face... jusy sayin.

Sorry bro. Every team faces this every year. Green Bay was in dire straights at the beginning of the year (according to their fan base). Its the teams that can right the ship that are successful. Now I don't think we're good enough to go to the playoffs with our secondary the way they are, but I do think that we could win 4 of the last 7. Winning 3-4 games to finish the season against a tough schedule and without our best players would be a good close. 5 games would be awesome. Fill in those holes over the offseason and lets see what happens in year 4 of Shannahan. Calm down people.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

DaSkinz Baby wrote:This whole coaching staff the owner and many fans REEK.....seriously....

If we fire our coach every two years, we will never be good...seriously...

Well hire the right person and the problem is resolved. In today's NFL to not see any progress or any real improvement is not acceptable. Period.....

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:If 2.5 years isnt enough, how do you explain the Colts' turnaround? Do you really think that they have more talent than the Redskins? A 2-14 team is now 5-3, and they are in year 1 of a switch to a 3-4 and playing better than our D in year 3. And all of this with their head coach away from the team fighting cancer.

They already had a good team, they just needed a good QB. Peyton left they were garbage. They now have another QB and they're decent.

Is it not dead obvious that the QB makes/breaks that team? Is it not obvious that the organization was run effectively prior to the new coach coming in?

Pagano didn't have to clear 100M of badly spent money.
Pagano didn't have to overhaul the bench.
Pagano didn't have to overhaul the starters.
Pagano didn't have build a training facility.
Pagano didn't have money stolen from him by a divisional rival.
Pagano didn't have to hire new personal trainers for the team.
Pagano didn't come into his job without draft picks.

It's not an apples to apples comparison. Neither is the situation in San Francisco. You all don't or simply refuse to acknowledge that this entire organization was completely and totally ****ED. Ignore it all you want, it wont change that it's a fact.

-Joe Gibbs couldn't overcome it. ( u can bring up his playoff appearances but they were flukish. they aren't sustainable, nor consistent. and they barely got in.) Fine, it was great at the moment. But it's nothing to hand ur hat on.
-Zorn couldn't overcome it.
-Spurrier.
-Norv.
-Marty wasn't given a chance.

Get real folks. This isn't a two year deal. It's going to take time. And tearing it all to shreds is just going to give you more of the same.

But just like when The Poster was here, you all don't learn from your mistakes when it's staring u in ur face. You're gluttons for punishment and that's what you got and that's what you'll continue to get. (not directed at anyone in particular)

fetus wrote:Honestly do you really want to rid RG3 of the coaching staff and scheme that he fits into???

Oh yeah they do. And they'll act like they didn't want it 3 years from now. It's idiotic.

Dan is a fan. Dan thinks like they do and thats why the team has sucked under his tenure. It's the EXACT SAME IMPULSIVE, WHINY, TEMPER TANTRUM "GIVE IT TO ME NOW" though processes. He's a fan. They're a fan. They hate him, yet they ARE HIM.

+1 every word of this

Chris Luva Luva wrote:What Shanny said was taken out of context.

Not by me.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:However, he left it open to interpretation. And for someone who doesn't have a good relationship with the media, he brought this on himself.

Agreed.

He should not have said what he did IMO. I've said worse when frustrated.

I did not like his follow-up either. How about a simple "My bad" from the big guy?

DarthMonk

this is simply ridiculous,
if we fire every coach after 3 years then we will be in this position for the rest of the history of the NFL.
There is a reason that people laugh at us when we try to say anything positive about our team and the reason is our blatant over-reaction to every word spoken by players or coaches.
I am glad Shannahan said what he did, and I hope he meant it how everyone thinks he did, you have to put a fire under the whole organizations ass if you want to win games, and by him saying this, maybe it will encourage our team to not give up, maybe they will think "hmmm if i don't give it my all these last few games, I may no be here next year", and let's think about these players on our team... how many of them can actually go to another NFL team and start.... not a lot, so guess what, time to play and play hard, or you could be gone. That can also be directed toward the coaching staff.

Every team will have a bad game/season/lose to teams they shouldn't... didn't the rams beat the saints by like 40 points last year or so...
If Shanny and the coaching staff is gone after this year, then we will be signing $100 million fat pieces of *sh$t* again and we will have to live with 2-14 for the rest of our lives.
You have to give the staff a chance, although Haz can't coach high school d's and DeAngelo can't cover a baby with a blanket, you have to wait til all the pieces are in place and we actually have a team that can finish a game and play d and o.
Did you really expect our secondary to be good this year... who did we bring in, Cedric Griffin, Brandon Meriweather, Madipoo Williams.... wtf is that. To go with MeAngelo, Josh Wilson, Reed Doughty, and DeJon Mustard.... we have no one there!
If we go through this coaching carousel, that we are all so used to, again, we are in the same boat we were 2.5 years ago, but we have a franchise QB.
If Shanny goes and we bring in a few secondary pieces, and go to the playoffs next year or when ever he is gone, and actually look good,
remember who drafted RG3 and made the deal possible and who rebuilt this team from almost scratch. Remember who found 2 decent and 1 damn good running backs way late in the draft.
If he goes credit who actually built this team when we become something

DaSkinz Baby wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

DaSkinz Baby wrote:This whole coaching staff the owner and many fans REEK.....seriously....

If we fire our coach every two years, we will never be good...seriously...

Well hire the right person and the problem is resolved

Which is what we say every two years when we fire our coach

DaSkinz Baby wrote:In today's NFL to not see any progress or any real improvement is not acceptable. Period.....

Wow, no progress. That's seriously not paying attention.

fetus wrote:this is simply ridiculous,
if we fire every coach after 3 years then we will be in this position for the rest of the history of the NFL.
There is a reason that people laugh at us when we try to say anything positive about our team and the reason is our blatant over-reaction to every word spoken by players or coaches.
I am glad Shannahan said what he did, and I hope he meant it how everyone thinks he did, you have to put a fire under the whole organizations ass if you want to win games, and by him saying this, maybe it will encourage our team to not give up, maybe they will think "hmmm if i don't give it my all these last few games, I may no be here next year", and let's think about these players on our team... how many of them can actually go to another NFL team and start.... not a lot, so guess what, time to play and play hard, or you could be gone. That can also be directed toward the coaching staff.

Every team will have a bad game/season/lose to teams they shouldn't... didn't the rams beat the saints by like 40 points last year or so...
If Shanny and the coaching staff is gone after this year, then we will be signing $100 million fat pieces of *sh$t* again and we will have to live with 2-14 for the rest of our lives.
You have to give the staff a chance, although Haz can't coach high school d's and DeAngelo can't cover a baby with a blanket, you have to wait til all the pieces are in place and we actually have a team that can finish a game and play d and o.
Did you really expect our secondary to be good this year... who did we bring in, Cedric Griffin, Brandon Meriweather, Madipoo Williams.... wtf is that. To go with MeAngelo, Josh Wilson, Reed Doughty, and DeJon Mustard.... we have no one there!
If we go through this coaching carousel, that we are all so used to, again, we are in the same boat we were 2.5 years ago, but we have a franchise QB.
If Shanny goes and we bring in a few secondary pieces, and go to the playoffs next year or when ever he is gone, and actually look good,
remember who drafted RG3 and made the deal possible and who rebuilt this team from almost scratch. Remember who found 2 decent and 1 damn good running backs way late in the draft.
If he goes credit who actually built this team when we become something

I completely understand what your saying but honestly 3 years in and we still lose to teams we should beat? We still have consistent breakdowns and our fundamentals are lacking too?? I am sorry but I simply don't think that our roster was that bad to begin with. We should have and have shown more progress than what we have shown, and please don't give me the first few games as indications of progress. Those point totals and lack of sacks are a direct result of other teams not having tape on RG3 and not knowing his tendency's. They have tape on him now and all of a sudden our receivers can't catch AIDS with a dirty needle?? Orakpo and Carriker being injured isn't that much of a loss either, not as much as some make it out to be. When has Shanahan ever built a winning team?? The 2 SuperBowl wins were Dan Reeve's built teams. When he had to build his own, he was fired. As a matter of fact honestly what has he really done to get a 4th year with the bush league calls he continues to allow his son to make, the product he is allowing to be fielded is regressing not progressing and if I am wrong tell me how..........

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:Ray is correct on this, and I might add, that Humphries was a bone of contention between the two and part of the reason Beathard said goodbye.

Humphries may have been the proximate cause, but he wasn't the reason.

I agree Bethard wasn't happy Gibbs was getting final say, which I said, but was wrong about, but it was apparently correct. But you guys are forgetting he was also in his mid fifties and had family in San Diego and wanted to go there. I'm not saying it was one or the other, I'm saying it was the combination.

And I wasn't?