The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Countertrey wrote:If he does not penalize the league, it will most likely be because he has no authority to do so... we don't know the scope of his charter with the league.

Mara was acting as an agent of the league, the action was validated by the commisioner, and given the force of rule, resulting in injury to two of it's member teams.

It is also clear that Mara directly benefited from this ruling, and that other teams have directly benefited from this ruling, as the amount of the penalty has been added to their salary cap... Many have negotiated with this additional cap in hand, as a tool to sign free agents... this qualifies them as benefactors, as well.

There is evidence of conspiracy, as Jerry Jones, a member of the committe responsible for this was not notified of this action... suggesting nefarious motivation. The timing was designed to inflict maximum injury, with no opportunity for appeal before injury occured.

There's plenty of evidence that a punitive response toward the league is warranted... we don't know that it is within the scope of the arbitors authority to do so.

The league has a huge problem... No matter the outcome, expect the busy bodies from the Senate to want to know "who put Machiavelli in charge of the NFL?" ...

Good stuff CT -

The solution that makes most sense to me is to restore the CAP space to the $120.6M level, and to compensate for 'damages' award extra draft picks based on the size of CAP space in question - a 2nd rounder for the Skins and 4th rounder for the Boys.

I feel that this action may have been ramrodded by Mara and rubberstamped by the Comish - so it would be fitting if the draft picks came from NYG - but I know that that will never happen.

... and, oh, by the way, can the arbitrator deliver this ruling to the Commish as he is walking to the podium to announce that the "2012 NFL Draft is now open... the Indianapolis Colts are on the clock... and... oh, crap...."

Countertrey wrote:... and, oh, by the way, can the arbitrator deliver this ruling to the Commish as he is walking to the podium to announce that the "2012 NFL Draft is now open... the Indianapolis Colts are on the clock... and... oh, crap...."

That would be the ultimate in fair wouldn't it?

And yet I still like Goodell better then Bettman who dictated that a Stanley Cup be awarded to his marketing pets, Crysby and Malkin.

The Hogster wrote:

Countertrey wrote:The more I see... the more I'm thinking there could be penalties to the league. The Redskins, and the Cowboys, were injured... and, it appears there was malice involved...

I agree. The tough part would be ascertaining what remedy is appropriate. Since we can't cancel all of the FA contracts that have been signed, and re-open Free Agency. I would propose that the Skins and Cowboys be awarded Compensatory draft picks to compensate for the injury.

A $36M penalty with $18M due this year to me would equal at least a 2nd round pick this year--more like a 1st. We either missed out on at least 1 big free agent or 2-3 mid-tier veterans.

If I'm Burbank, I overturn this penalty. Give the Skins their cap space back, and award them a compensatory 1st round pick. 33rd overall.

The Cowboys should be due a 4th due to the relatively small hit they took. But, nobody cares about them.

Sounds like a good plan, but since this was mostly Mara trying to maintain a comparative advantage over two division rivals I say we get the Giants 1st and the Cowgirls get the Giants 3rd rounder! And the NFL chips in with a compensatory 2nd for us and a 4th for the Pokes.

The timing of the penalties basically indicates that the league knew full well the penalties would never stand up once they were challenged (and they knew they'd be challenged); they knew they couldn't actually penalize the teams in any way that would stand, so they settled for deliberately screwing up our free agency. They knew by announcing the penalties the day before free agency, we'd end up missing out on some players between that time and when the bogus penalties inevitably were overturned.

Where they have miscalculated is that they clearly didn't expect that they might be subject to penalization in return. They should be wrong about that. If they aren't penalized, then they're really getting exactly what they actually wanted. Don't tell me for a second they believed these ridiculous penalties would actually hold up.

My prediction is we'll only get a portion of the cap space back and there will be no additional compensation.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:My prediction is we'll only get a portion of the cap space back and there will be no additional compensation.

I think we'll definitely get all the cap space back. Further damages would just be gravy.

.... Boy do I like gravy!

KazooSkinsFan wrote:My prediction is we'll only get a portion of the cap space back and there will be no additional compensation.

This is a safe bet. My only argument against it is the method they would use to quantify how much we get back. If they use the supposedly "violative" contracts--Haynesworth & Hall--then the argument is that the league approved those deals. As a result, what amount can the arbitrator find should be deducted from this year's cap, based on valid contracts? They would basically have to play GM to retroactively restructure the contracts in a way that would look more like deals other teams hand out.

That method is also flawed because the Redskins had a track record for several years of signing players to contracts with big up-front payments such that the cap hit could be spread out over the term of the deal. When those cap hits that were pushed forward came due, the Skins would just restructure the deal. They did this for years prior to the uncapped year. See Clinton Portis.

If they are going to restore only a portion of the cap based on their estimate of whatever damage was done by this reduction, then that will be equally difficult to quantify.

I think your guess is more in line with what the NFL does with in-league appeals. I.e. a 4 game suspension becoming a 2 game suspension. But, this arbitration is outside of the league. It may be an all or nothing ruling where the Arbiter either upholds or overturns the penalty.

If we get damages, that would be icing on the cake. I think we deserve it. But, that could be a bit ambitious.

The Hogster wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:My prediction is we'll only get a portion of the cap space back and there will be no additional compensation.

This is a safe bet. My only argument against it is the method they would use to quantify how much we get back. If they use the supposedly "violative" contracts--Haynesworth & Hall--then the argument is that the league approved those deals. As a result, what amount can the arbitrator find should be deducted from this year's cap, based on valid contracts? They would basically have to play GM to retroactively restructure the contracts in a way that would look more like deals other teams hand out.

That method is also flawed because the Redskins had a track record for several years of signing players to contracts with big up-front payments such that the cap hit could be spread out over the term of the deal. When those cap hits that were pushed forward came due, the Skins would just restructure the deal. They did this for years prior to the uncapped year. See Clinton Portis.

If they are going to restore only a portion of the cap based on their estimate of whatever damage was done by this reduction, then that will be equally difficult to quantify.

I think your guess is more in line with what the NFL does with in-league appeals. I.e. a 4 game suspension becoming a 2 game suspension. But, this arbitration is outside of the league. It may be an all or nothing ruling where the Arbiter either upholds or overturns the penalty.

If we get damages, that would be icing on the cake. I think we deserve it. But, that could be a bit ambitious.

All he would need to do is find malice... and there's a good bit of evidence of that (good old Mara continued to provide it, until the league told him to shut up).

KazooSkinsFan wrote:My prediction is we'll only get a portion of the cap space back and there will be no additional compensation.

I understand why you would make that prediction, but I think it is all or nothing. The issue isn't "were the Redskins penalized too much" its basically "Did the league have the right to do this at all". I don't see how an arbitrator could decide that the penalization was wrong/unfair and then allow a portion of it to stand.

I just hope they get this process moving SOON.

chiefhog44 wrote:

1niksder wrote:NFL owners by hand vote this morning affirmed salary cap sanctions on Redskins and ttiT, who were not in room.

I listened to Goodell this afternoon and he confirmed that there had been no vote on it at that time and that he was not in the position to discuss what was said. Not sure this has taken place yet.

Now it's official. This morning the league voted unanimously.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... s/related/

Hogster wrote:

If I'm Burbank, I overturn this penalty. Give the Skins their cap space back, and award them a compensatory 1st round pick. 33rd overall.

There would be a bit more justice if he awarded a compensatory 1st round pick... 32. Giants move to 33.

chiefhog44 wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:

1niksder wrote:NFL owners by hand vote this morning affirmed salary cap sanctions on Redskins and ttiT, who were not in room.

I listened to Goodell this afternoon and he confirmed that there had been no vote on it at that time and that he was not in the position to discuss what was said. Not sure this has taken place yet.

Now it's official. This morning the league voted unanimously.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... s/related/

Good. That officially makes them complicit. I wonder what was used to strong arm most of them? Could it be 1.6 million raided from the victims?

BTW, it was NOT unanimous... it's likely that the Raiders voted No.

I've got a question... Let's just say, hypothetically, that all of this collusion talk peaks the interest of someone in Congress and they pushed to strip the league of the broadcast antitrust exemption. What would that do/ mean to the NFL?

chiefhog44 wrote:

1niksder wrote:NFL owners by hand vote this morning affirmed salary cap sanctions on Redskins and ttiT, who were not in room.

I listened to Goodell this afternoon and he confirmed that there had been no vote on it at that time and that he was not in the position to discuss what was said. Not sure this has taken place yet.

Goodell wasn't in the room...

NFL owners voted without opposition to approve proposed penalties totaling $46 million in 2012 salary-cap space subtracted from the Washington Redskins and Dallas Cowboys.

With one owner abstaining, owners backed the NFL ruling handed down last week to expunge $36 million of 2012 cap space from the Redskins' potential player payroll and $10 million for the Cowboys.

This is a nice read if you don't think they should be awarded damages

The Tampa Bay Bucs grossly spent under what would have been the cap floor, yet

The NFL announced today that the Cowboys vs Giants game will open the 2012 season.

For the first time, ever, deep down in my gut, I saw a matchup that I wouldn't mind the Cowboys winning. This crap that Mara pulled on the Skins & Cowboys is something that needs to be addressed. I think the Giants have jumped the Eagles as the 2nd most hated rival for me.

The Hogster wrote:The NFL announced today that the Cowboys vs Giants game will open the 2012 season.

For the first time, ever, deep down in my gut, I saw a matchup that I wouldn't mind the Cowboys winning. This crap that Mara pulled on the Skins & Cowboys is something that needs to be addressed. I think the Giants have jumped the Eagles as the 2nd most hated rival for me.

Slow down, wait a minute!

Mara needs a serious slap, that's without question, but rooting for the forces of darkness...?!?! That's a step too far my friend!!!

I know we're all angry but let's keep things in perspective here, is all I'm saying.

Were are all confused SLR... And pissed to boot! Those chumps chumping their way to a sb win Wtf? We handled them twice w rexy! Then the owner smashes our free agency hopes....
RGiii save us!

SouthLondonRedskin wrote:

The Hogster wrote:The NFL announced today that the Cowboys vs Giants game will open the 2012 season.

For the first time, ever, deep down in my gut, I saw a matchup that I wouldn't mind the Cowboys winning. This crap that Mara pulled on the Skins & Cowboys is something that needs to be addressed. I think the Giants have jumped the Eagles as the 2nd most hated rival for me.

Slow down, wait a minute!

Mara needs a serious slap, that's without question, but rooting for the forces of darkness...?!?! That's a step too far my friend!!!

I know we're all angry but let's keep things in perspective here, is all I'm saying.

Whatever dude. If a man steals $36M from you and you cheer him on, well.....that's not the kind of man I am. In a perfect world, this is a game you want to end in a tie, with multiple injuries to both teams, and with them both missing the playoffs by 1 win. But I can't see a man wanting the Giants to win that game in particular.

I hope the Giants get swept by the entire NFC East this year just for spitting in our faces like Mara did.

The Hogster wrote:

SouthLondonRedskin wrote:

The Hogster wrote:The NFL announced today that the Cowboys vs Giants game will open the 2012 season.

For the first time, ever, deep down in my gut, I saw a matchup that I wouldn't mind the Cowboys winning. This crap that Mara pulled on the Skins & Cowboys is something that needs to be addressed. I think the Giants have jumped the Eagles as the 2nd most hated rival for me.

Slow down, wait a minute!

Mara needs a serious slap, that's without question, but rooting for the forces of darkness...?!?! That's a step too far my friend!!!

I know we're all angry but let's keep things in perspective here, is all I'm saying.

Whatever dude. If a man steals $36M from you and you cheer him on, well.....that's not the kind of man I am. In a perfect world, this is a game you want to end in a tie, with multiple injuries to both teams, and with them both missing the playoffs by 1 win. But I can't see a man wanting the Giants to win that game in particular.

I hope the Giants get swept by the entire NFC East this year just for spitting in our faces like Mara did.

Meteor strike. This is a game you want to end in a meteor strike.

I feel like I'm drunk and trying to get a lady to go home w me by saying this but... heck even I don't want the giants to win vs the pukes.
Injuries to both is cool
Gstrings getting swept and sleeping in the basement after a fluke sb win, faking injuries, then trying to step on two division rivals the eve of free agency? Priceless

The Hogster wrote:

SouthLondonRedskin wrote:

The Hogster wrote:The NFL announced today that the Cowboys vs Giants game will open the 2012 season.

For the first time, ever, deep down in my gut, I saw a matchup that I wouldn't mind the Cowboys winning. This crap that Mara pulled on the Skins & Cowboys is something that needs to be addressed. I think the Giants have jumped the Eagles as the 2nd most hated rival for me.

Slow down, wait a minute!

Mara needs a serious slap, that's without question, but rooting for the forces of darkness...?!?! That's a step too far my friend!!!

I know we're all angry but let's keep things in perspective here, is all I'm saying.

Whatever dude. If a man steals $36M from you and you cheer him on, well.....that's not the kind of man I am. In a perfect world, this is a game you want to end in a tie, with multiple injuries to both teams, and with them both missing the playoffs by 1 win. But I can't see a man wanting the Giants to win that game in particular.

I hope the Giants get swept by the entire NFC East this year just for spitting in our faces like Mara did.

Well I never said cheer for the Giants either! And if Eli breaks his arm in a opening day loss I won't be shedding any tears. I just won't cheer the other lot on if you know what I mean.

I hate Goodell more for getting dicked about by Mara anyway.

Countertrey wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:

1niksder wrote:NFL owners by hand vote this morning affirmed salary cap sanctions on Redskins and ttiT, who were not in room.

I listened to Goodell this afternoon and he confirmed that there had been no vote on it at that time and that he was not in the position to discuss what was said. Not sure this has taken place yet.

Now it's official. This morning the league voted unanimously.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... s/related/

Good. That officially makes them complicit. I wonder what was used to strong arm most of them? Could it be 1.6 million raided from the victims?

BTW, it was NOT unanimous... it's likely that the Raiders voted No.

I'm guessing that The Danny and Jerrah voted no, as well.