The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

CanesSkins26 wrote:Other kickers have field goals blocked and snaps botched also, though. In addition, for some of the blocks the blame is on Gano and not the line. This is from after the Bills game...

I know, and that's why I only cited the two blocked kicks that I recalled Shanahan saying were the fault of blocking.

I just don't understand supporting a player that has been one of the worst at his job for two straight years, just because he is decent on kickoffs.

Well, I've written a fair amount about it in this thread, and in no way can what I said be reduced to "just because he is decent on kickoffs." I'm not sure how many other ways I can put the case, so I guess I can only leave it to everyone to read back through the thread and decide for themselves.

Gano has not kicked well this season - Gano will get a chance to show that he's the best option here


I'm looking forward to having a FG competition here and may the best guy win - a good NFL team does not depend on FG kicking and hopefully that holds true here as we continue to get this franchise out of the hole that we were in



Gano is a good FG kicker - if he can win the job back, what he does in the future is all I really care about

CanesSkins26 wrote:And if you look at Gano's rate of touch backs, it doesn't stand out among other NFL kickers. Gano has 31 touch backs on 60 kickoffs, for an average of 51 percent. By comparison, New Orleans has a 62 % rate, Carolina 68 %, Ravens 60 %, San Fran 56 %, Jacksonville 65 %, Tampa Bay 54 %, KC 56 %, etc. I don't have time to go through each NFL team, but Gano's touchback rate seems to be middle of the pack in the NFL.

The question that comes to my mind with these touchback stats is how often are these kickers asked to kick it through the end zone vs hang it high and drop at the goal line or the big favorite, directional quick to the corner of the end zone.

I have seen all of the Redskin games this year and I know Gano has done a fair share of the specialized kicks even though we know that he is quite capable of putting the ball deep in the end zone or out of the end zone on every kick if asked.

Since the goal of the specialized kicks is to not let the other teams gain the 20, one would have to refer back to your first stats to evaluate kickers on kick offs.

CanesSkins26

... Right now we are 3rd in the NFL in average opponent starting field position. On paper that sounds great; however, the difference between us in 3rd place and the Bears, for example, who are in 18th place, is 3 yards. 23 NFL teams hold opponents to starting inside the 25 yard line, so Gano is not so good at that that it comes anywhere close to negating his habit of throwing up on himself kicking field goals.

It sounds like you are saying that it would be easy to get a kicker to come close to what Gano is doing on kick -offs. Your analysis supports that.

Gano's overall record speaks for itself. If Dallas can find a Dan Bailey, why can't we? I think that we can do better than Gano, but I still do not see why you don't bring Gano back to camp if one doesn't have a replacement for him.

I am in favor of cutting him to send a consistent message that failure is not acceptable.

I think a lot of people here view Gano as that guy on your Fantasy Football Team's bench. You know that guy. The one you felt genius for picking up, but you're waiting for him to break out. That one that you're afraid to release for fear of losing out.

He's usually that guy you plug into the lineup a few games--he stinks--you lose--you get mad--send him back to the bench, until one day.....one day, you finally release him under cover of night. Then you take a peek at the waiver wire and realize that nobody else picked him up.

He falls into obscurity. And, you realize that nobody coveted him as much as you. He's a bum. And, the more he goes unclaimed the more you feel silly for rolling with him for so long.

I doubt that ANYONE would fall over themselves to sign Gano for the last 2 games. So, you could send that message, and still have a chance to let him compete next year having had to face the prospect of being out of the league.

The Hogster wrote:I am in favor of cutting him to send a consistent message that failure is not acceptable.

I think a lot of people here view Gano as that guy on your Fantasy Football Team's bench. You know that guy. The one you felt genius for picking up, but you're waiting for him to break out. That one that you're afraid to release for fear of losing out.

He's usually that guy you plug into the lineup a few games--he stinks--you lose--you get mad--send him back to the bench, until one day.....one day, you finally release him under cover of night. Then you take a peek at the waiver wire and realize that nobody else picked him up.

He falls into obscurity. And, you realize that nobody coveted him as much as you. He's a bum. And, the more he goes unclaimed the more you feel silly for rolling with him for so long.

I doubt that ANYONE would fall over themselves to sign Gano for the last 2 games. So, you could send that message, and still have a chance to let him compete next year having had to face the prospect of being out of the league.

I get what you are saying here, but I think what you are saying can certainly apply to other players on the team who can't do the job well enough to execute the game plan.

Red_One43 wrote:I think that we can do better than Gano, but I still do not see why you don't bring Gano back to camp if one doesn't have a replacement for him.

+1

The Hogster wrote:I am in favor of cutting him to send a consistent message that failure is not acceptable.

I think a lot of people here view Gano as that guy on your Fantasy Football Team's bench. You know that guy. The one you felt genius for picking up, but you're waiting for him to break out. That one that you're afraid to release for fear of losing out.

He's usually that guy you plug into the lineup a few games--he stinks--you lose--you get mad--send him back to the bench, until one day.....one day, you finally release him under cover of night. Then you take a peek at the waiver wire and realize that nobody else picked him up.

He falls into obscurity. And, you realize that nobody coveted him as much as you. He's a bum. And, the more he goes unclaimed the more you feel silly for rolling with him for so long.

I doubt that ANYONE would fall over themselves to sign Gano for the last 2 games. So, you could send that message, and still have a chance to let him compete next year having had to face the prospect of being out of the league.

I see what you're saying about cutting Gano to send a message, but there is a huge flaw in that plan! Cutting a kicker sends no message at all. Most players don't even consider then part of the team.

It is like ripping off artificial nails with pliers. If the finger nails were real, that would send a message, but fake nails... Not so much!

Cutting a kicker to send a message is just like that. Ooh! I'm scared! Please don't rip off another artificial nail, I'm having a hard time faking the pain.

skinsfan#33 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:I am in favor of cutting him to send a consistent message that failure is not acceptable.

I think a lot of people here view Gano as that guy on your Fantasy Football Team's bench. You know that guy. The one you felt genius for picking up, but you're waiting for him to break out. That one that you're afraid to release for fear of losing out.

He's usually that guy you plug into the lineup a few games--he stinks--you lose--you get mad--send him back to the bench, until one day.....one day, you finally release him under cover of night. Then you take a peek at the waiver wire and realize that nobody else picked him up.

He falls into obscurity. And, you realize that nobody coveted him as much as you. He's a bum. And, the more he goes unclaimed the more you feel silly for rolling with him for so long.

I doubt that ANYONE would fall over themselves to sign Gano for the last 2 games. So, you could send that message, and still have a chance to let him compete next year having had to face the prospect of being out of the league.

I see what you're saying about cutting Gano to send a message, but there is a huge flaw in that plan! Cutting a kicker sends no message at all. Most players don't even consider then part of the team.

It is like ripping off artificial nails with pliers. If the finger nails were real, that would send a message, but fake nails... Not so much!

Cutting a kicker to send a message is just like that. Ooh! I'm scared! Please don't rip off another artificial nail, I'm having a hard time faking the pain.

LOL! I hear you. Bill Parcells was notorious for cutting inconsistent kickers. I guess I'm old school. Nobody gets a pass.

The Hogster wrote:LOL! I hear you. Bill Parcells was notorious for cutting inconsistent kickers. I guess I'm old school. Nobody gets a pass.

Except D. Hall?

I like D. Hall - hopefully he's a part of our secondary next season

Gano will have a chance to keep his job - he will NOT be kicking here next season unless he shows that he's the best option

StorminMormon86 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:LOL! I hear you. Bill Parcells was notorious for cutting inconsistent kickers. I guess I'm old school. Nobody gets a pass.

Except D. Hall?

Hall isn't the worst at his job genius. So, you would cut D Hall?? I never paid much attention to your posts before, but now you've lost all credibility. Carry on.

The Hogster wrote:Hall isn't the worst at his job genius. So, you would cut D Hall?? I never paid much attention to your posts before, but now you've lost all credibility. Carry on.

.
Don't remember saying I'd cut D. Hall. You simply said "nobody gets a pass", which is what you constantly keep giving to the lack of effort from DeAngelo Hall.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:Hall isn't the worst at his job genius. So, you would cut D Hall?? I never paid much attention to your posts before, but now you've lost all credibility. Carry on.

.
Don't remember saying I'd cut D. Hall. You simply said "nobody gets a pass", which is what you constantly keep giving to the lack of effort from DeAngelo Hall.

Whatever dude. You don't need the best player at every position, but having the worst guy pretty much guarantees failure. If we cut every guy around the level of Hall relative to their positions, we'd only have Sav Rocca.

The Snyder Regime has done too much "cutting to send a message". Snyder took the team, and sent a message to Norv Turner and his coaching stff, which included Russ Grimm at OL (as best I remember) and Charley Taylor as WR coach. Snyder cut Bobby Mitchell as VP, rather than promote Mitxchell to team president...which would have been the smart move, considering how long Mitchell had worked in the Redskinjs front office, and how smart and classy he is. Cut Brad Johnson, in effect, for Jeff George. Cut D Green, in effect, for some guy named Sanders.

To repeat: get OL, DL, QB, and CB...then worry about PK.

The Snyder Regime has done too much "cutting to send a message". Snyder took the team, and sent a message to Norv Turner and his coaching stff, which included Russ Grimm at OL (as best I remember) and Charley Taylor as WR coach. Snyder cut Bobby Mitchell as VP, rather than promote Mitxchell to team president...which would have been the smart move, considering how long Mitchell had worked in the Redskinjs front office, and how smart and classy he is. Cut Brad Johnson, in effect, for Jeff George. Cut D Green, in effect, for some guy named Sanders.

To repeat: get OL, DL, QB, and CB...then worry about PK.

welch wrote:The Snyder Regime has done too much "cutting to send a message". Snyder took the team, and sent a message to Norv Turner and his coaching stff, which included Russ Grimm at OL (as best I remember) and Charley Taylor as WR coach. Snyder cut Bobby Mitchell as VP, rather than promote Mitxchell to team president...which would have been the smart move, considering how long Mitchell had worked in the Redskinjs front office, and how smart and classy he is. Cut Brad Johnson, in effect, for Jeff George. Cut D Green, in effect, for some guy named Sanders.

To repeat: get OL, DL, QB, and CB...then worry about PK.

Comparing releasing a 70% kicker to cutting 3 Hall of Fame Redskins is a stretch. Cutting Gano doesn't mean we can't address the OL, DL, QB, & CB positions either.

We didn't do enough cutting underperforming players under SnyderRatto. In fact, their whole strategy was to renegotiate declining player's deals to push their cap hit into the future.

The Hogster wrote:

welch wrote:The Snyder Regime has done too much "cutting to send a message". Snyder took the team, and sent a message to Norv Turner and his coaching stff, which included Russ Grimm at OL (as best I remember) and Charley Taylor as WR coach. Snyder cut Bobby Mitchell as VP, rather than promote Mitxchell to team president...which would have been the smart move, considering how long Mitchell had worked in the Redskinjs front office, and how smart and classy he is. Cut Brad Johnson, in effect, for Jeff George. Cut D Green, in effect, for some guy named Sanders.

To repeat: get OL, DL, QB, and CB...then worry about PK.

Comparing releasing a 70% kicker to cutting 3 Hall of Fame Redskins is a stretch. Cutting Gano doesn't mean we can't address the OL, DL, QB, & CB positions either.

We didn't do enough cutting underperforming players under SnyderRatto. In fact, their whole strategy was to renegotiate declining player's deals to push their cap hit into the future.

They don't need to cut Gano, he is a free agent this year. So they can just choise to not bring him back.

skinsfan#33 wrote:They don't need to cut Gano, he is a free agent this year. So they can just choose to not bring him back.

what's so hard to understand here - we are going to bring in some kickers and let them show who can do the job


Gano has the leg but he's not had a good year

I think he's back next year

I don't fret over Gano. The team will find a kicker. Will they find a QB and all the rest?

Just meaning that there isn't a massive difference among PK's...adding or subtracting Gano is not going to make a difference.

But to the other point: cut the lazy guys. Bang, gone. Don't cut guys on impulse, the Snyder way.

Shanahan said Gano will remain the kicker ``unless we find somebody that we think will help our football team win that's better than him.''

Above is the direct quote from Shanny after the Cowboy OT game.

Clearly after the Dallas game, Shanahan was furious with Gano and it definitely sounds like he was ready to cut him.

“Sometimes it’s a tough decision – do you go with a young guy like Graham? Is he going to keep on getting better or is he not going to take advantage of opportunities? I don’t know,” Shanahan said.

“Hopefully he takes advantage of the opportunities that are presented to him in the future and, if not, obviously he won’t be with us. I’m hoping he does take advantage of those opportunities because he does it consistently in practice and hopefully that mindset is there in the games.

“If it is he’ll be with us for a long time and, if not, it’s like all of the positions where we have a lot of competition. [We’re] always trying to find the top guy.”

These statements are after the Seattle game. They appear to indicate that Gano will be back in camp for next year to try to keep his job.

http://www.thescore.com/home/articles/1 ... c-redskins


http://prod.www.redskins.clubs.nfl.com/ ... c7e479962a

Red One,

Not sure what you're reading, but that's not a ringing endorsement by any stretch. Whatever floats your boat for the sake of argument. But, in the real world, when the Head Coach is (i) discussing your job security with the media and (ii) saying he won't be with us if he doesn't take advantage of opportunities that's usually a kiss of death.

I live in DC, and here is what we hear Shanahan say on a consistent basis:

Washington Redskins coach Mike Shanahan directed a stern warning in the direction of kicker Graham Gano, who missed two field goals in Sunday’s 27-24 overtime loss to the Dallas Cowboys, including a potential game-winner from 52-yards out.

With the misses, Gano’s field goal percentage dipped to 66.7, tied for 30th in the league. It was the second straight week that the second-year pro has missed a pair of field goals, although on both misses at Miami, Gano was kicking into a stiff wind.

Wind wasn’t a factor against the Cowboys, however. Shanahan said Monday afternoon that Gano, who has made 16 of 24 field goals, with three of those attempts blocked, must do better.

This guy stinks, and if you guys think there is no young kicker who can make 6 or 7 out of 10, then there's no reason for me to even discuss it.

BTW - The Ravens signed Shayne Graham this week to kick for them in the playoffs. As soon as we start apologizing for losers, the sooner we won't be one anymore.

The Hogster wrote:Red One,

Not sure what you're reading, but that's not a ringing endorsement by any stretch. Whatever floats your boat for the sake of argument. But, in the real world, when the Head Coach is (i) discussing your job security with the media and (ii) saying he won't be with us if he doesn't take advantage of opportunities that's usually a kiss of death.

I live in DC, and here is what we hear Shanahan say on a consistent basis:

Washington Redskins coach Mike Shanahan directed a stern warning in the direction of kicker Graham Gano, who missed two field goals in Sunday’s 27-24 overtime loss to the Dallas Cowboys, including a potential game-winner from 52-yards out.

With the misses, Gano’s field goal percentage dipped to 66.7, tied for 30th in the league. It was the second straight week that the second-year pro has missed a pair of field goals, although on both misses at Miami, Gano was kicking into a stiff wind.

Wind wasn’t a factor against the Cowboys, however. Shanahan said Monday afternoon that Gano, who has made 16 of 24 field goals, with three of those attempts blocked, must do better.

This guy stinks, and if you guys think there is no young kicker who can make 6 or 7 out of 10, then there's no reason for me to even discuss it.

BTW - The Ravens signed Shayne Graham this week to kick for them in the playoffs. As soon as we start apologizing for losers, the sooner we won't be one anymore.

Hogster,

I live in Northeast and I read the same things that you are reading. I am not saying what Shanny is saying is any kind of endorsement of the ringing kind - I am saying in the first quote, he darn near cut the guy after the Dallas game and if Shanny had someone in mind, Gano would be gone already. That shows that he could very cut the guy after the season.

The second quote after the Seattle game, Shanny was quick to defend Gano on the blocks and did say "If" he is here in the future - those two sayngs lend to the possibilty that Shanny hasn't closed the door on the guy yet. It doesn't mean that he will be back either, but Shanny indicated earlier that they perfer to have someone to replace him before they get rid of him and that is during the season when they would have to have a replacement.

Other key words Shanny uses is "mindset to kick in games" - Shanny says that Gano kicks does it in practice. We know he did it in preseason, but we all know that he doesn't do it in games. The question is - Is Shanny convinced that the guy does not have the stuff it takes to kick in games?

I say that Shanny is not yet convinced because he doesn't have to be at this point.

1. Gano did improve from last year - remember he was missing 30 yarders and missed all his 50 yarders. 2. Gano costs peanuts to re-sign. 3. They don't have a replacement.

You and I aren't in disagreement on Gano's year - It clearly wasn't good and worthy to move on.

Where we disagree is, to me, you want the cut or not re-sign Gano and it sounds like you want him gutted and hung out to dry so that he never kicks for the Skins again.

I believe that Shanny will make his decision during the FA period as to whether or not he resigns the Gano.

Red_One43 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:Red One,

Not sure what you're reading, but that's not a ringing endorsement by any stretch. Whatever floats your boat for the sake of argument. But, in the real world, when the Head Coach is (i) discussing your job security with the media and (ii) saying he won't be with us if he doesn't take advantage of opportunities that's usually a kiss of death.

I live in DC, and here is what we hear Shanahan say on a consistent basis:

Washington Redskins coach Mike Shanahan directed a stern warning in the direction of kicker Graham Gano, who missed two field goals in Sunday’s 27-24 overtime loss to the Dallas Cowboys, including a potential game-winner from 52-yards out.

With the misses, Gano’s field goal percentage dipped to 66.7, tied for 30th in the league. It was the second straight week that the second-year pro has missed a pair of field goals, although on both misses at Miami, Gano was kicking into a stiff wind.

Wind wasn’t a factor against the Cowboys, however. Shanahan said Monday afternoon that Gano, who has made 16 of 24 field goals, with three of those attempts blocked, must do better.

This guy stinks, and if you guys think there is no young kicker who can make 6 or 7 out of 10, then there's no reason for me to even discuss it.

BTW - The Ravens signed Shayne Graham this week to kick for them in the playoffs. As soon as we start apologizing for losers, the sooner we won't be one anymore.

Hogster,

I live in Northeast and I read the same things that you are reading. I am not saying what Shanny is saying is any kind of endorsement of the ringing kind - I am saying in the first quote, he darn near cut the guy after the Dallas game and if Shanny had someone in mind, Gano would be gone already. That shows that he could very cut the guy after the season.

The second quote after the Seattle game, Shanny was quick to defend Gano on the blocks and did say "If" he is here in the future - those two sayngs lend to the possibilty that Shanny hasn't closed the door on the guy yet. It doesn't mean that he will be back either, but Shanny indicated earlier that they perfer to have someone to replace him before they get rid of him and that is during the season when they would have to have a replacement.

Other key words Shanny uses is "mindset to kick in games" - Shanny says that Gano kicks does it in practice. We know he did it in preseason, but we all know that he doesn't do it in games. The question is - Is Shanny convinced that the guy does not have the stuff it takes to kick in games?

I say that Shanny is not yet convinced because he doesn't have to be at this point.

1. Gano did improve from last year - remember he was missing 30 yarders and missed all his 50 yarders. 2. Gano costs peanuts to re-sign. 3. They don't have a replacement.

You and I aren't in disagreement on Gano's year - It clearly wasn't good and worthy to move on.

Where we disagree is, to me, you want the cut or not re-sign Gano and it sounds like you want him gutted and hung out to dry so that he never kicks for the Skins again.

I believe that Shanny will make his decision during the FA period as to whether or not he resigns the Gano.

+1

I cannot disagree with anything that you said here. I don't want to hang Gano out to dry. I'd really rather he make kicks. And, yes, replacing a good kicker is not easy. But, when the guy is kicking at Gano's rate, finding someone better is not as difficult. He won't be cut, I acknowledge that. But, given our season, there isn't much to discuss. I'm in favor of coaches like Parcells who didn't really like kickers--especially bad ones. Nonetheless, I hope next year we have a guy who can kick better than what we've seen.

I think Gano will be a lot better next year

first of all ... he's going to have to earn the job back

Gano is 26 of 35 while kickers that played against the Skins are 30 of 36. If you look strictly at the numbers without assigning any value to then it looks like Gano is a much w worse kicker.
Let look at those nine misses. One was a fumbled snap that Gsno still tried to kick even though he was stopped and the ball was almost laying flat on the ground. Four of the nine were blocked. Lets say Gano kicked one of those low and he is to blame for the block, that still leaves three plus the botched snap for four of the nine. One of the 26 that he made was partially blocked, but he still made that kick (last week).

So the field goal unit is responsible for the nine misses. Four or give should be blamed on the party of the FG unit not named Gano and four or five should be blamed on Gano. I'll blame him for five.

So opposing kickers have made 30 of 36 or 83% and Gano has made 26 of 31 (35 - the d he had no control over) which is 83%.

Another novel fact is FedEx field, in its history, has the lowest FG success rate of any NFL stadium. Some of that had to do with the fact that we have had crap kickers tyre entire time we have been playing at FedEx.

That is why I fine Gano a little slack. Realisticly, he is kicking at the NFL average this year. Yes, I know Hogster he has made only 26 of 35 in your mind and no mitigating factors will change the fact that when you go to NFL.com he is last on the list. I just tend to look at the whole picture not one stat line on some web site.