ATX_Skins wrote:You don't think a religious based military campaign to regain "holy land" isn't doing damage? How many people were killed, enslaved, raped and murdered? How many people were religiously motivated to go on the crusades and fight for a religion through means of fear and intimidation?
I guess I'm just not sure how this has anything to do with whether God exists or not. It seems like no one actually wants to discuss that though, they'd rather yell back and forth about who said exactly what or whether religiousness and theism are the same (or in this case, I guess whether it's religion as a whole or just religious people that are evil).
ATX_Skins wrote:I have some free time today so if anyone would like to defend religion, by all means I would love to hear what you have to say.
What are people supposed to be defending religion against? I haven't seen any criticisms of it . . . just a guy looking up at the clouds and saying he lives by reality. Not exactly heavy-hitting material there.
I didn't make the thread, not sure why I should have to do the heavy hitting...
Well, I started it, but it was based on a comment you made in another thread. So, in a way, you did make the thread, or at least made it possible.
ATX_Skins wrote:It's funny to me that when an Atheist walks in the room nobody is religious anymore. I am not talking about God anymore. I am talking about religion.
Interesting that some people I have a feeling are hiding their faith behind the term "God".
I cannot argue there is no God, I can argue that anyone's religion is utter crap though.
The origins of this thread were in regards to one of the members becoming a born again Christian and having Jesus Christ in his life. Lets stick to religion then shall we.
I consider myself religious. I am a Christian, not born again, but a Christian no less. I believe that Jesus was the messiah, and he died so that I, and the rest of the world might be saved. I don't proselytize or try to impose my beliefs on anyone else, but I would never deny my beliefs out of embarrassment or concern for some sort of negative retribution, especially on a message board. I often pray that God will reveal Himself to those that don't know His love the way I do. So if you want to try and belittle me for my beliefs, go for it. It won't affect me, because, as I said before, I have personal proof there is a God, and I have a very good relationship with Him. Nothing you can say will change that.
Why do you feel as though the world needs to be saved. Don't you think Christianity has done enough damage already?
I don't think Christianity has done any damage at all. Are you one of those people who thinks guns kill people, not that the person who pulled the trigger actually did the killing?
You don't think a religious based military campaign to regain "holy land" isn't doing damage? How many people were killed, enslaved, raped and murdered? How many people were religiously motivated to go on the crusades and fight for a religion through means of fear and intimidation?
No, I don't think that is Christianity.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
ATX_Skins wrote:I have some free time today so if anyone would like to defend religion, by all means I would love to hear what you have to say.
What are people supposed to be defending religion against? I haven't seen any criticisms of it . . . just a guy looking up at the clouds and saying he lives by reality. Not exactly heavy-hitting material there.
I didn't make the thread, not sure why I should have to do the heavy hitting...
Well, I started it, but it was based on a comment you made in another thread. So, in a way, you did make the thread, or at least made it possible.
ATX_Skins wrote:It's funny to me that when an Atheist walks in the room nobody is religious anymore. I am not talking about God anymore. I am talking about religion.
Interesting that some people I have a feeling are hiding their faith behind the term "God".
I cannot argue there is no God, I can argue that anyone's religion is utter crap though.
The origins of this thread were in regards to one of the members becoming a born again Christian and having Jesus Christ in his life. Lets stick to religion then shall we.
I consider myself religious. I am a Christian, not born again, but a Christian no less. I believe that Jesus was the messiah, and he died so that I, and the rest of the world might be saved. I don't proselytize or try to impose my beliefs on anyone else, but I would never deny my beliefs out of embarrassment or concern for some sort of negative retribution, especially on a message board. I often pray that God will reveal Himself to those that don't know His love the way I do. So if you want to try and belittle me for my beliefs, go for it. It won't affect me, because, as I said before, I have personal proof there is a God, and I have a very good relationship with Him. Nothing you can say will change that.
Why do you feel as though the world needs to be saved. Don't you think Christianity has done enough damage already?
I don't think Christianity has done any damage at all. Are you one of those people who thinks guns kill people, not that the person who pulled the trigger actually did the killing?
You don't think a religious based military campaign to regain "holy land" isn't doing damage? How many people were killed, enslaved, raped and murdered? How many people were religiously motivated to go on the crusades and fight for a religion through means of fear and intimidation?
No, I don't think that is Christianity.
I think you should do some research. They were very involved.
ATX_Skins wrote:IMO opinion there are two ways of viewing "God"
God in religious terms is the creation of all that is in line with their beliefs.
God on a non personal level is the idea that however the Universe was created, science included, that THAT is God.
In your opinion opinion, why are those two mutually exclusive? Can God not have created everything, science included, and that be in line with all of my beliefs?
Well, that is my opinion. If you believe that god created all that is but only pray to Jesus, than I suppose yes, maybe you can.
ATX_Skins wrote:I think you should do some research. They were very involved.
You're not only confused between God and religion you're confused between God and believers. When I do wrong, that is against God's wishes, not on his behalf. Going back to my earlier question, why don't teachers give the students all the answers so they get 100% on every test? Could there be a lesson do you think in being allowed to do things wrong on your own rather then being told what the answer is and blindly writing it in?
Hail to the Redskins!
Groucho: Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him
Twain: A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
ATX_Skins wrote:IMO opinion there are two ways of viewing "God"
God in religious terms is the creation of all that is in line with their beliefs.
God on a non personal level is the idea that however the Universe was created, science included, that THAT is God.
In your opinion opinion, why are those two mutually exclusive? Can God not have created everything, science included, and that be in line with all of my beliefs?
Well, that is my opinion. If you believe that god created all that is but only pray to Jesus, than I suppose yes, maybe you can.
Say what?
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
ATX_Skins wrote:I think you should do some research. They were very involved.
Do you understand the concept that saying you are doing something in the name of Christianity does not necessarily make it a Christian thing to do?
Even if the leaders of the time in the region had brainwashed the masses into doing it? Religion was used as a very powerful tool to control the masses during that time.
I do understand the difference, however in those times I do not think the masses knew the difference no matter how immoral or wrong.
You are right though, just because it was in the name of Christianity does not make it a Christian thing to do. I agree.
ATX_Skins wrote:IMO opinion there are two ways of viewing "God"
God in religious terms is the creation of all that is in line with their beliefs.
God on a non personal level is the idea that however the Universe was created, science included, that THAT is God.
In your opinion opinion, why are those two mutually exclusive? Can God not have created everything, science included, and that be in line with all of my beliefs?
Well, that is my opinion. If you believe that god created all that is but only pray to Jesus, than I suppose yes, maybe you can.
Say what?
Yes, exactly, I confused myself thats how kickass I am.
ATX_Skins wrote:IMO opinion there are two ways of viewing "God"
God in religious terms is the creation of all that is in line with their beliefs.
God on a non personal level is the idea that however the Universe was created, science included, that THAT is God.
Can you give an argument as to why these are mutually exclusive views, or why they are the only two? As JSPB points out it's actually not difficult to reconcile the two concepts of God-the-universe-creator and God-of-religious-belief. So, what if they are the same thing? Can you give an argument to say why they are not?
They are not because IMO the universe was not created how any religion would say. So for me they are separate. For someone who is religious they would possibly view them as being the same.
ATX_Skins wrote:They are not because IMO the universe was not created how any religion would say.
Religions typically aren't in the business of giving the scientific description, no. But I still don't see how it follows that they must be concerned with some other concept. There's just no contradiction here.
So for me they are separate. For someone who is religious they would possibly view them as being the same.
This attempt to make it all subjective misses the point. Whether or not there's a God doesn't depend on what feels right to me or what works for you.
Of course, if you really mean this, then it turns out it wasn't "reality" on the side of the guy looking at the clouds — it was just a gut feeling all along.
ATX_Skins wrote:You don't think a religious based military campaign to regain "holy land" isn't doing damage? How many people were killed, enslaved, raped and murdered? How many people were religiously motivated to go on the crusades and fight for a religion through means of fear and intimidation?
I guess I'm just not sure how this has anything to do with whether God exists or not. It seems like no one actually wants to discuss that though, they'd rather yell back and forth about who said exactly what or whether religiousness and theism are the same (or in this case, I guess whether it's religion as a whole or just religious people that are evil).
Oh, what a Great Controversy this is between good/evil.
God is LOVE. On the flipside, satan wants to be worshipped as "God" is workshipped. He does so by attacking the character of God/Love and replaces it with: strife, warfare, murder, hate, greed, filthiness, and all kinds of evil.
Choose today whom you will serve, but as for me and MY HOUSEHOLD...we will serve the LORD....!!! JOSHUA 24:14-18
(sorry if you think The Good Book is fairy tale - I do not share your view)
Proverbs 27:17 As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.
ATX_Skins wrote:You don't think a religious based military campaign to regain "holy land" isn't doing damage? How many people were killed, enslaved, raped and murdered? How many people were religiously motivated to go on the crusades and fight for a religion through means of fear and intimidation?
I guess I'm just not sure how this has anything to do with whether God exists or not. It seems like no one actually wants to discuss that though, they'd rather yell back and forth about who said exactly what or whether religiousness and theism are the same (or in this case, I guess whether it's religion as a whole or just religious people that are evil).
Oh, what a Great Controversy this is between good/evil.
God is LOVE. On the flipside, satan wants to be worshipped as "God" is workshipped. He does so by attacking the character of God/Love and replaces it with: strife, warfare, murder, hate, greed, filthiness, and all kinds of evil.
Choose today whom you will serve, but as for me and MY HOUSEHOLD...we will serve the LORD....!!! JOSHUA 24:14-18
(sorry if you think The Good Book is fairy tale - I do not share your view)
You can be a slave to religion. I will serve myself.
ATX_Skins wrote:You don't think a religious based military campaign to regain "holy land" isn't doing damage? How many people were killed, enslaved, raped and murdered? How many people were religiously motivated to go on the crusades and fight for a religion through means of fear and intimidation?
I guess I'm just not sure how this has anything to do with whether God exists or not. It seems like no one actually wants to discuss that though, they'd rather yell back and forth about who said exactly what or whether religiousness and theism are the same (or in this case, I guess whether it's religion as a whole or just religious people that are evil).
Oh, what a Great Controversy this is between good/evil.
God is LOVE. On the flipside, satan wants to be worshipped as "God" is workshipped. He does so by attacking the character of God/Love and replaces it with: strife, warfare, murder, hate, greed, filthiness, and all kinds of evil.
Choose today whom you will serve, but as for me and MY HOUSEHOLD...we will serve the LORD....!!! JOSHUA 24:14-18
(sorry if you think The Good Book is fairy tale - I do not share your view)
You can be a slave to religion. I will serve myself.
^^^^^^^^^
TWO facts in life:
1. there is ONE GOD
2. you are not HIM
Proverbs 27:17 As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.
ATX_Skins wrote:You don't think a religious based military campaign to regain "holy land" isn't doing damage? How many people were killed, enslaved, raped and murdered? How many people were religiously motivated to go on the crusades and fight for a religion through means of fear and intimidation?
I guess I'm just not sure how this has anything to do with whether God exists or not. It seems like no one actually wants to discuss that though, they'd rather yell back and forth about who said exactly what or whether religiousness and theism are the same (or in this case, I guess whether it's religion as a whole or just religious people that are evil).
Oh, what a Great Controversy this is between good/evil.
God is LOVE. On the flipside, satan wants to be worshipped as "God" is workshipped. He does so by attacking the character of God/Love and replaces it with: strife, warfare, murder, hate, greed, filthiness, and all kinds of evil.
Choose today whom you will serve, but as for me and MY HOUSEHOLD...we will serve the LORD....!!! JOSHUA 24:14-18
(sorry if you think The Good Book is fairy tale - I do not share your view)
You can be a slave to religion. I will serve myself.
You know, for someone confident enough in his views to say they are identical with reality — and for someone who claimed to be interested in seeing a defense of theism — you sure have trouble responding to some basic questions.
Exhibit A
Irn-Bru wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:I am Atheist #truestory
How do you explain everything that is? #truequestion
I don't have to explain anything
Well, not if you have no intellectual curiosity.
Intellectual curiosity?
I think blindly following stories in the greatest fictional novel ever written is not exactly intelligent.
Not all theists are Christians. Neither would a refutation of Christianity imply atheism is true.
*crickets*
Exhibit B
Irn-Bru wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:Albert Einstein was an Atheist.
Um, no, he wasn't.
It's technical, but he never believed in a personal God.
So what? That's another conflation of God with religion — one of several in this thread.
*crickets*
Exhibit C
Irn-Bru wrote:
I cannot argue there is no God, I can argue that anyone's religion is utter crap though.
Suppose there is a God. Now suppose someone adheres to a religion that worships this God. Those two ideas pose no contradiction.
What is a contradiction, however, is saying that you can't dispute the first premise, but that you can somehow still know the second premise must be absurd. You don't have a base from which to launch that attack.
*crickets*
Exhibit D
Irn-Bru wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:IMO opinion there are two ways of viewing "God"
God in religious terms is the creation of all that is in line with their beliefs.
God on a non personal level is the idea that however the Universe was created, science included, that THAT is God.
Can you give an argument as to why these are mutually exclusive views, or why they are the only two? As JSPB points out it's actually not difficult to reconcile the two concepts of God-the-universe-creator and God-of-religious-belief. So, what if they are the same thing? Can you give an argument to say why they are not?
Irn-Bru wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:They are not because IMO the universe was not created how any religion would say.
Religions typically aren't in the business of giving the scientific description, no. But I still don't see how it follows that they must be concerned with some other concept. There's just no contradiction here.
So for me they are separate. For someone who is religious they would possibly view them as being the same.
This attempt to make it all subjective misses the point. Whether or not there's a God doesn't depend on what feels right to me or what works for you.
Of course, if you really mean this, then it turns out it wasn't "reality" on the side of the guy looking at the clouds — it was just a gut feeling all along.
Chris Luva Luva wrote:Can someone give me the condensed version?
The condensed version is that everyone has very strong opinions but for the most part they don't know what they are talking about. Actually, now that I think of it, that's the condensed version of every thread on every forum all over the Internet.
It's not that I am avoiding your questions, I simply just don't want to engage in 3 different discussions at one time. I lack the proper copy/paste/quote/post picture skills. If I was faster at that I wouldn't mind.
Chris Luva Luva wrote:Can someone give me the condensed version?
The condensed version is that everyone has very strong opinions but for the most part they don't know what they are talking about. Actually, now that I think of it, that's the condensed version of every thread on every forum all over the Internet.
This...
I know what I want to say but I can't put it into context that everyone would understand. I end up trying to point something out, then someone picks a part of what I said that wasn't my point to begin with. Then I end up not being able to discuss my main point and nothing gets accomplished.
I do this texting all the time with my GF. Now that I think about it, a lot of the discussions on this board I have with people are a lot like the ones with her. Nothing gets accomplished.
It's not that I am avoiding your questions, I simply just don't want to engage in 3 different discussions at one time.
I didn't hit you with these all at once. These were quite spread out since the beginning of the discussion. The first one even comes from the other thread, before this one was split off.
Look, it doesn't bother me if you don't respond. It's just that when someone takes the somewhat arrogant stance of having the reality-based position versus all the loons, I'm going to hold them to a higher standard. If the logic and rigor isn't there to back it up . . . well, I think that speaks for itself.
It's not that I am avoiding your questions, I simply just don't want to engage in 3 different discussions at one time.
I didn't hit you with these all at once. These were quite spread out since the beginning of the discussion. The first one even comes from the other thread, before this one was split off.
Look, it doesn't bother me if you don't respond. It's just that when someone takes the somewhat arrogant stance of having the reality-based position versus all the loons, I'm going to hold them to a higher standard. If the logic and rigor isn't there to back it up . . . well, I think that speaks for itself.
I understand where you are coming from. See, I was asked what I thought God was, then I was asked how I view separate gods, then I was asked if there were more than two ways or if they could be combined. I am actually tired of being badgered with the same question over and over and over.
We could refresh the question if you would like, but I'm not going to keep explaining myself over and over until you or anyone else finally finds a point to argue. If you would like to disprove what I say then fine, but I will not have someone keep digging. I am not sure I explained that the way I wanted but I am hoping you are smokin what i'm rollin.
