Will there be a 2011 NFL season?

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:55 am

Hopefully, with the owners letting the players in, this is a sign that they don't see much of a chance for the appeal to be accepted. Based on Judge Nelson's ruling it seems like the appeal will be denied. The only argument the owners had was the Norris-Laguardia Act and the "sham" argument. Nelson deemed the Decert was legit, so N-L Act (Fed Courts cannot issue injunctions) did not apply. She did not attempt to find exception to the N-L Act which would have left it open for another Judge's interpretation. Her decision should make it hard to accept the appeal of the NFL. Stranger things happen in the courts?

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:25 am

The NFL is clever. Provide players with access to the facilities and then turn around and argue in court, if lots of players show up this week, that the non-union is acting as a union.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:28 am

Red_One43 wrote:Hopefully, with the owners letting the players in, this is a sign that they don't see much of a chance for the appeal to be accepted. Based on Judge Nelson's ruling it seems like the appeal will be denied. The only argument the owners had was the Norris-Laguardia Act and the "sham" argument. Nelson deemed the Decert was legit, so N-L Act (Fed Courts cannot issue injunctions) did not apply. She did not attempt to find exception to the N-L Act which would have left it open for another Judge's interpretation. Her decision should make it hard to accept the appeal of the NFL. Stranger things happen in the courts?

Not so fast. The 8th Circuit has a reputation as a business-friendly court. Judge Nelson wont rule on the NFL's request for a stay until Wednesday, so the appeals court likely wont even get the case until next week. It's going to be a chaotic the next week or two until the appeals court issues its ruling.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:30 am

I want to tell you that Monday's ruling ordering the lockout to be lifted means football this upcoming season, but I can't.

I don't know.

And it's not as if I haven't asked. I've called as many lawyers as I could in between 6 p.m. and midnight last night.

Did Judge Susan Nelson overstep her bounds by ruling the dissolving of the union was not a sham? Will the court of appeals uphold the injunction or reverse it? Does the 2011 season begin now as the players contend? When the players show up to work today, do the teams have to let them do everything inside the facility or else be found in violation of the judge's order? Will the draft involve trades?

We are in unchartered territory. Never before has a ruling come down and, at least for a moment, a league and a group of players interpreted it differently.

The players have filed a motion to clarify the judge's decision, while the league has moved along with their appeal. The players, with workout bonuses on the line, are expected to be knocking on the door at NFL facilities. The league has instructed teams to at least let them in.

Meanwhile, the league is set to have its draft — which will happen because it is part of the expired CBA — beginning on Thursday.

Get ready for today, where things will change by the minute and chaos will unfold.

When real negotiation stopped last month, it was feared that letting the courts decide would throw everything out of whack. I'm not sure either side pictured what we have today.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42762261

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:14 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:
I want to tell you that Monday's ruling ordering the lockout to be lifted means football this upcoming season, but I can't.

I don't know.

And it's not as if I haven't asked. I've called as many lawyers as I could in between 6 p.m. and midnight last night.

Did Judge Susan Nelson overstep her bounds by ruling the dissolving of the union was not a sham? Will the court of appeals uphold the injunction or reverse it? Does the 2011 season begin now as the players contend? When the players show up to work today, do the teams have to let them do everything inside the facility or else be found in violation of the judge's order? Will the draft involve trades?

We are in unchartered territory. Never before has a ruling come down and, at least for a moment, a league and a group of players interpreted it differently.

The players have filed a motion to clarify the judge's decision, while the league has moved along with their appeal. The players, with workout bonuses on the line, are expected to be knocking on the door at NFL facilities. The league has instructed teams to at least let them in.

Meanwhile, the league is set to have its draft — which will happen because it is part of the expired CBA — beginning on Thursday.

Get ready for today, where things will change by the minute and chaos will unfold.

When real negotiation stopped last month, it was feared that letting the courts decide would throw everything out of whack. I'm not sure either side pictured what we have today.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42762261

Judge Nelson gives players until Wednesday to respond to stay

It appears we’re going to be in labor purgatory for at least another day, with the lockout kinda-sorta over, but not really.

The Associated Press reports that Judge Susan Nelson has given NFL players until 9 a.m. CT Wednesday to respond to the league’s motion for a stay of her ruling. The stay would put the lifting of the lockout on hold pending appeal.

Daniel Kaplan of SportsBusiness Journal writes that many thought Nelson would immediately “cast aside” the stay and the league would have to appeal elsewhere. Instead, it looks like we won’t get an answer from Nelson until Wednesday.

In the meantime, players can continue to awkwardly show up to team facilities, even if they aren’t allowed to work out.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:28 am

Aiello released a statement to NFL Network’s Jason LaCanfora on Tuesday morning:

“We are going to proceed in an orderly way that is fair to the teams and players and complies with court orders. Players are being treated with courtesy and respect at club facilities,” Aiello said. “We do not believe it is appropriate for football activities to take place until there are further rulings from the court. Under last set of proposals made to NFLPA teams wouldn’t even be into offseason programs yet. We need a few days to sort this out, as NFLPA attorney Jim Quinn indicated.”

While the NFL waits a few days to sort things out, presumably they will get a ruling on whether a stay will be issued for Monday’s ruling on the lifting of the lockout.

If the NFL’s appeal of Judge Susan Nelson’s ruling isn’t heard, we could start the 2011 league year sooner than later. It sounds like we’ll be in this strange in-between, however, for a few more days.

NFL: “We need a few days to sort this out”

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:23 pm

Adam Schefter
Players have asked Judge Nelson judge to force NFL owners to start the league year. Judge ordered owners to respond by 5 pm. tomorrow.
10 minutes ago

If it's rejected there could be free agency less than 24 hours before the draft and trading players for picks would also be a option

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:46 pm

1niksder wrote:
Adam Schefter
Players have asked Judge Nelson judge to force NFL owners to start the league year. Judge ordered owners to respond by 5 pm. tomorrow.
10 minutes ago

If it's rejected there could be free agency less than 24 hours before the draft and trading players for picks would also be a option

Now that's GREAT news man.. becau if we can unload Mcnugget now for some picks, we need to do it. I didn't mention Fat Al becau frankly I dont' know if anyone wants him?

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:10 pm

Red_One43 wrote:The only argument the owners had was the Norris-Laguardia Act

The best argument is that the ruling was flagrantly Unconstitutional as there is just absolutely zero Constitutional authority for the Federal Government to have any say in a labor dispute. Though the irony is the judges self appointing themselves as dictators are the gatekeepers and they aren't going to enforce the Constitution regarding limiting their own power. It's sad, but it's no different then anything else they are doing presently.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:12 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:Not so fast. The 8th Circuit has a reputation as a business-friendly court. Judge Nelson wont rule on the NFL's request for a stay until Wednesday, so the appeals court likely wont even get the case until next week. It's going to be a chaotic the next week or two until the appeals court issues its ruling.

I wish rather then having a business friendly or a labor friendly there were such a thing as a Constitution friendly court they could appeal to.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:55 pm

Since when has a lack of Constitutional authority stopped the Feds?

yupchagee · Post by **yupchagee** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:56 pm

The players will win. The owners are sending a Boies to do a man's job!

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:35 pm

1niksder wrote:
Adam Schefter
Players have asked Judge Nelson judge to force NFL owners to start the league year. Judge ordered owners to respond by 5 pm. tomorrow.
10 minutes ago

If it's rejected there could be free agency less than 24 hours before the draft and trading players for picks would also be a option

I'm not sure there's any scenario where there would be free agency prior to the draft.

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:56 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:Hopefully, with the owners letting the players in, this is a sign that they don't see much of a chance for the appeal to be accepted. Based on Judge Nelson's ruling it seems like the appeal will be denied. The only argument the owners had was the Norris-Laguardia Act and the "sham" argument. Nelson deemed the Decert was legit, so N-L Act (Fed Courts cannot issue injunctions) did not apply. She did not attempt to find exception to the N-L Act which would have left it open for another Judge's interpretation. Her decision should make it hard to accept the appeal of the NFL. Stranger things happen in the courts?

Not so fast. The 8th Circuit has a reputation as a business-friendly court. Judge Nelson wont rule on the NFL's request for a stay until Wednesday, so the appeals court likely wont even get the case until next week. It's going to be a chaotic the next week or two until the appeals court issues its ruling.

"Not so fast is right", this 8th's handling of the appeal of the injunction should last should drag into June once it gets started. Where I was getting the "fast" was with the emergency request of the stay by the NFL to the 8th appealing Judge Nelson's denial of the stay. That ruling should take the 8th a couple of days.

Check out what is written below concerning how the 8th has ruled in the past an how Judge Nelson is seen to have written her ruling. Nothing is a sure thing, but the players can still keep their hopes up.

The 89-page written ruling seems was expertly crafted to avoid a finding that Judge Nelson acted unreasonably. Even if at least two of the three judges assigned to the case are inclined to conclude that the decertification of the union was a sham or that the courts must defer to the NLRB or that the Norris-LaGuardia Act prevents a court from enjoining a lockout, Judge Nelson’s reliance on past cases from the 8th Circuit supporting the idea that a so-called “preliminary injunction” can be obtained even if the likelihood of winning the case is lower than 50 percent, the question of whether the appellate judges believe the decertification of the union is valid doesn’t matter. All that matters for now is whether the players have shown that they have a “fair chance of prevailing” at trial, a standard used most recently by the 8th Circuit in a case decided in 2008. For the purposes of the appeal, the judges would be required to find that Judge Nelson abused her discretion in concluding that the players have a “fair chance of prevailing” at trial.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/ca ... ll/page/3/

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:05 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
1niksder wrote:
Adam Schefter
Players have asked Judge Nelson judge to force NFL owners to start the league year. Judge ordered owners to respond by 5 pm. tomorrow.
10 minutes ago

If it's rejected there could be free agency less than 24 hours before the draft and trading players for picks would also be a option

I'm not sure there's any scenario where there would be free agency prior to the draft.

The NFL might be able to justify not starting FA on top of a huge event like the draft, but here is another question, Will there be trading of players for draft choices during the draft?

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:34 pm

Red_One43 wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
1niksder wrote:
Adam Schefter
Players have asked Judge Nelson judge to force NFL owners to start the league year. Judge ordered owners to respond by 5 pm. tomorrow.
10 minutes ago

If it's rejected there could be free agency less than 24 hours before the draft and trading players for picks would also be a option

I'm not sure there's any scenario where there would be free agency prior to the draft.

The NFL might be able to justify not starting FA on top of a huge event like the draft, but here is another question, Will there be trading of players for draft choices during the draft?

Doubtful. The NFL today said that even drafted players (like the Eli for Rivers trade) would not be allowed during the draft.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:07 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
1niksder wrote:
Adam Schefter
Players have asked Judge Nelson judge to force NFL owners to start the league year. Judge ordered owners to respond by 5 pm. tomorrow.
10 minutes ago

If it's rejected there could be free agency less than 24 hours before the draft and trading players for picks would also be a option

I'm not sure there's any scenario where there would be free agency prior to the draft.

They now in the courtroom and they MUST go by the letter of the law.

The owners have until 5pm (6 est) to justify not starting the new league year. If Judge Nelson doesn't buy their justification (I think they have this cover) than she has to simply because she asked for justification and not simply for perceived reasons to warrant such action (actually it's non-actions). So if she sides with the players on this one the 2011 season should/would start right after the ruling is made (shortly after 6:35 on Wed. Free Agency could be full blown well before mid-night tomorrow. If the players don't respond to the league's motion for the stay by 10 am est., the order to start the season wouldn't matter.

Every team had players show up f6r work today although no team had workouts scheduled. Owners around the league did their own thing (some let the players in, some teams refused entry to all player - Some teams locked up the weight room and/or send their staff home, others were fully staffed and player had full access)

One sounds like a Union at wrok the other sounds like people running their operation as they see fit

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:31 pm

The owners have until 5pm (6 est) to justify not starting the new league year.

That's not what the owners have to provide. The players have asked the judge to order the owners to start the 2011 season. In turn, the NFL has to provide to Judge Nelson its plans for moving forward with the 2011 season.

If Judge Nelson doesn't buy their justification (I think they have this cover) than she has to simply because she asked for justification and not simply for perceived reasons to warrant such action (actually it's non-actions).

The judge isn't going to pass judgement on the NFL's "justification". That's not what's at issue. The judge has been asked, by both sides, to clarify her earlier ruling, and has been asked by the NFL to stay her decision. If she stays her ruling pending the appeal, she would not rule on the other issue as it would be moot.

So if she sides with the players on this one the 2011 season should/would start right after the ruling is made (shortly after 6:35 on Wed. Free Agency could be full blown well before mid-night tomorrow. If the players don't respond to the league's motion for the stay by 10 am est., the order to start the season wouldn't matter.

If the judge stays the order and orders the NFL to start the 2011 season, she wont impose rules and will in all liklihood order the NFL to begin putting in place rules and procedures for the 2011 season. The NFL has until 5pm tomorrow to provide information to the judge, so a ruling tomorrow is not at all certain, and it could be Thursday or even Friday before Judge Nelson rules.

Even assuming that the rulings go in favor of the players, we probably wont see actual free agency until after the appeals court rules on the NFL's request for a stay, which probably wont happen until next week.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:36 am

Can anyone help explain the ramifications for free agents and restricted free agents if the NFL is forced to operate under the 2010 CBA as seems likely given the recent decisions

I understand this is good from a point of view in that it looks like we'll have football but are there not a lot of players affected badly by that?

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:16 pm

SkinsJock wrote:Can anyone help explain the ramifications for free agents and restricted free agents if the NFL is forced to operate under the 2010 CBA as seems likely given the recent decisions

It's unclear at this point. The NFL wouldn't necessarily operate under the 2010 rules.

SKINS#1 · Post by **SKINS#1** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:26 pm

Could the NFL use the agreement they put on the table during negotiations?

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:28 pm

SKINS#1 wrote:Could the NFL use the agreement they put on the table during negotiations?

No. If Judge Nelson orders the NFL to start the season, the NFL will have to come up with rules for things like free agency that do not violate anti-trust laws. The proposal that the NFL put on the table during the negotiations with the NFLPLA was part of the collective bargaining process, which gives the NFL anti-trust exemptions. Without a union, and therefore without collective bargaining, the NFL has to take anti-trust laws into account.

SKINS#1 · Post by **SKINS#1** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:42 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
SKINS#1 wrote:Could the NFL use the agreement they put on the table during negotiations?

No. If Judge Nelson orders the NFL to start the season, the NFL will have to come up with rules for things like free agency that do not violate anti-trust laws. The proposal that the NFL put on the table during the negotiations with the NFLPLA was part of the collective bargaining process, which gives the NFL anti-trust exemptions. Without a union, and therefore without collective bargaining, the NFL has to take anti-trust laws into account.

This is not looking good for the NFL. Could the Owners cancel football until an agreement is in place?

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:19 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
SKINS#1 wrote:Could the NFL use the agreement they put on the table during negotiations?

No. If Judge Nelson orders the NFL to start the season, the NFL will have to come up with rules for things like free agency that do not violate anti-trust laws. The proposal that the NFL put on the table during the negotiations with the NFLPLA was part of the collective bargaining process, which gives the NFL anti-trust exemptions. Without a union, and therefore without collective bargaining, the NFL has to take anti-trust laws into account.

The law has nothing to do with this, he has to do what makes Queen Susan happy

chiefhog44 · Post by **chiefhog44** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:50 pm

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6439599

Looks like the season starts tonight...Trade Mcnabb, Trade Mcnabb [-o<