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Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:14 pm
by MDSKINSFAN
There will be a guy at #10 that can have an immediate impact. Taking into account that we have weaknesses everywhere except TE, LT, and SS, there will be a guy at #10 that can come in and start right away. When you are in the stage of rebuilding that we are in you take the best guy available.
And I think your hate for the Patriots blinds you to how well they actually draft. Are you saying McCourty, Wilfork, Mayo, Meriweather, Brady, Light, Mankins, Branch, Tate, and Spikes among others have no talent? That team has plenty of talent that they drafted, thats why they are good year in year out.
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:44 pm
by Redskins_Fanatic
KazooSkinsFan wrote:Yes, it's a moronic post. But if dim witted, talentless football players who do what they are told is the way to win Super Bowls, I'd be all for it.
That's because you have no Principles. You are so focused on WINNING rather than doing things the RIGHT WAY that you'd probably sell your soul for a shot at a Championship, just like Bill Beliscum and that entire franchise has.
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:47 pm
by Redskins_Fanatic
MDSKINSFAN wrote:There will be a guy at #10 that can have an immediate impact. Taking into account that we have weaknesses everywhere except TE, LT, and SS, there will be a guy at #10 that can come in and start right away. When you are in the stage of rebuilding that we are in you take the best guy available.
Assuming that the player selected plays a position which I do not believe to be of the highest need; then he will be a player who I actively root for the failure and injury of.
MDSKINSFAN wrote:And I think your hate for the Patriots blinds you to how well they actually draft. Are you saying McCourty, Wilfork, Mayo, Meriweather, Brady, Light, Mankins, Branch, Tate, and Spikes among others have no talent? That team has plenty of talent that they drafted, thats why they are good year in year out.
I don't care how well ANYONE drafts. I HATE THE DRAFT. Given my druthers we would trade away every pick, every year and literally ignore the fact that the ridiculous diseased cattle auction even occurs.
IF drafting well is what is required to WIN in the NFL now, I truly hope we NEVER AGAIN become a winning franchise.
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:09 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
Redskins_Fanatic wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:Yes, it's a moronic post. But if dim witted, talentless football players who do what they are told is the way to win Super Bowls, I'd be all for it.
That's because you have no Principles. You are so focused on WINNING rather than doing things the RIGHT WAY that you'd probably sell your soul for a shot at a Championship, just like Bill Beliscum and that entire franchise has.
I keep asking what these "principles" you're referring to are and keep getting no response.
What we know is that principles don't involve not making wild, baseless, ridiculous accusations and they do involve not having a kicker. I'm not seeing that as some sort of "higher plane" of existence.
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:31 am
by CanesSkins26
Redskins_Fanatic wrote:MDSKINSFAN wrote:There will be a guy at #10 that can have an immediate impact. Taking into account that we have weaknesses everywhere except TE, LT, and SS, there will be a guy at #10 that can come in and start right away. When you are in the stage of rebuilding that we are in you take the best guy available.
Assuming that the player selected plays a position which I do not believe to be of the highest need; then he will be a player who I actively root for the failure and injury of.
MDSKINSFAN wrote:And I think your hate for the Patriots blinds you to how well they actually draft. Are you saying McCourty, Wilfork, Mayo, Meriweather, Brady, Light, Mankins, Branch, Tate, and Spikes among others have no talent? That team has plenty of talent that they drafted, thats why they are good year in year out.
I don't care how well ANYONE drafts. I HATE THE DRAFT. Given my druthers we would trade away every pick, every year and literally ignore the fact that the ridiculous diseased cattle auction even occurs.
IF drafting well is what is required to WIN in the NFL now, I truly hope we NEVER AGAIN become a winning franchise.
Wow, you've got some serious issues. Either that or you're a troll. Maybe you're really a Cowboys or Eagles fan?
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:37 am
by Redskins_Fanatic
CanesSkins26 wrote:Wow, you've got some serious issues. Either that or you're a troll. Maybe you're really a Cowboys or Eagles fan?
No to the Troll, Yes to the "issues". Most of them are related to the fact that the NFL has turned from the greatest sport in the world into an absolute cesspool of garbage at every level from the quality of play on the field to the style of management that individual teams and the league operate under. Most of which can be traced directly back to the 1994 CBA and the change from the NFL being a SPORT to it being a BUSINESS.
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:42 am
by SkinsJock
I'm sorry but it's really not easy to have a discussion when someone is so blind and absolutely unwilling to even consider other's points of view here - R_F is so totally against the draft that any discussion about a rookie being a part of this franchise is treated with derision and another load of BS
It's a shame that we have to be subjected to this almost everytime we consider anything to do with the future of this franchise and the fact that we need to add so many young players and look to rebuild through the draft as best we can
R_F would like the NFL to go back to the era of the 70s and 80s - it's kind of a shame that he can't too
The NFL ain't changing and apparently, neither is R_F
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:14 am
by Redskins_Fanatic
SkinsJock wrote:R_F would like the NFL to go back to the era of the 70s and 80s - it's kind of a shame that he can't too
The NFL ain't changing and apparently, neither is R_F
Not quite all the way back to that. The late 1980's and early 1990's were very close to what I would like to see the NFL operate like. Though I would take the 1970's over today's game in an instant.
The NFL is no longer a sport. It's a business. For the players, coaches, owners, and the League. It disgusts me almost as much as the NBA does to see guys helping each other up off the ground, patting each other on the back, and acting like they're best friends instead of bitter enemies. THAT is NOT sports. Never has been and never will be.
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:24 pm
by UK Skins Fan
If you want to argue this point backwards and forwards until the end of time, can I suggest that you start a thread on the subject?
It's getting a little tedious having to wade through the same old treacle to get to the real discussion around here.
As for the subject of this thread, I don't see any reason to draft Newton in the first round, and certainly not in the top ten. A fantastic athlete who can throw the ball. But can he play quarterback effectively in the NFL? I'm nowhere near convinced of that possibility, and if there's significant doubt in the Redskins front office about it as well, then we shouldn't go anywhere near him.
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:14 pm
by SkinsJock
thanks Trevor - any thread with the word "draft" seem to get sidetracked by ... never mind
I'm glad that dumb and dumber are not here anymore because they could make the mistake of taking the Heisman winner just because ...
I doubt that we're taking on the project that I think is Cam Newton - he may work out well in the NFL but we really don't need that right now
I think that if we can find a QB he'll be able to play a lot sooner and IF we're keeping Grossman we may need to see him on the field a lot quicker than Newton will be ready
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:58 am
by markshark84
Redskins_Fanatic wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:Yes, it's a moronic post. But if dim witted, talentless football players who do what they are told is the way to win Super Bowls, I'd be all for it.
That's because you have no Principles. You are so focused on WINNING rather than doing things the RIGHT WAY that you'd probably sell your soul for a shot at a Championship, just like Bill Beliscum and that entire franchise has.
I hate the Patriots just as much as anyone on here (maybe more), but you can't knock them for winning. You just can't. In football, people don't care about how you win, just that you win. To sit here and say that the Patriots win the wrong way and that they sold their soul just makes you sound bitter.
Honestly, they do things right; I wish we could do it the way they do. They build in the draft, they have a good GM that doesn't need high draft picks or big time free agents, a good coach with a vision, a unified, smart TEAM that works together. The skins don't have even one of those qualities. It's a shame.
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:18 pm
by TCIYM
So, back to Cam Newton: Mel Kiper still has the Redskins selecting Newton at #10 barring anything unforeseen in the background investigation or the intangibles (meaning Wonderlic tests).
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:56 pm
by SkinsJock
I just don't think SI (or anyone that thinks we might bring in Newton) is taking into account that IF Shanahan drafts a QB with his top pick, he will draft a QB that:
a) he thinks has a really good chance to be very good
b) he thinks has a really good chance to be ready to play soon
I think Newton might turn out OK but I doubt that Shanahan has the time to wait for that to happen
Newton is going to need a lot of time to get ready to play at the top level
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:02 pm
by markshark84
CanesSkins26 wrote:markshark84 wrote:Redskins_Fanatic wrote:markshark84 wrote:By drafting Newton with the tenth pick, I guess the pondits have come to the conclusion that Snyder and the skins are officially drafting idiots.
That would be a horrendous pick. He's not worth the #10. He's 1/100 as good as Vick and overall not NFL QB material -- especially with this line.....
Okay. Opinion noted. Now for the other half of the equation.... Who DO you want to see the Redskins acquire at the QB position in the offseason, or what do you think the team should do with the QB's currently on the roster?
Honestly, I am not sure I see any single NCAA QB that is worth the #10 (of those in the draft). There are so many guys that have some of the tools I believe would make them successful in the NFL and lack the other tools necessary. Like Moore, he just doesn't have NFL size. Or Mallet -- he has a ton of the tools, except for the one in his head. Newton is just not ready and is seriously lacking passing accuracy. I think that Luck and OU's Jones are good, but they are staying in school. Then again, I am not sure why there isn't more talk about Dalton out of TCU.
All in all, I just don't see a quality QB -- but, I am sure there are a couple in this draft that will turn out well -- there usually are. Personally, I would take an OT with our pick. We need to get our line squared away. With that said, if there is a QB worth taking at 10, I say to pull the trigger -- I am of the opinion that if you can get a franchise QB, then do it, but right now I don't see one.
I think that Gabbert is certainly worth a top 10 pick. I would tend to agree with you about the others that you mentioned.
I almost feel like he is the "hot" name right now. You really didn't hear much about him during the season. I tend to be skeptical about QBs that leave early, but a junior leaving is better than sophs. Personally, I think he is leaving because there aren't many quality QBs in the draft this year, which worries me. With that said, he appears to have all the tools in size; I am not sure what he is like mentally, but he does appear to play well against solid competition. All in all, he does seem to be a quality QB, but I just don't know that much about him.
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:40 pm
by brad7686
I've been thinking about it and I mean its not like we would be getting a lot at ten, the good pass rushers will be gone, the two corners might be gone, so we would have Julio Jones, who might be as boom or bust as Newton, or a 3-4 DE, which isn't THAT important a position to take that high.
I would have no problem taking Newton just because of what he MIGHT be. He could be outstanding. He has all the tools its just a coin flip of how he applies himself. I would be interested in his wonderlic score because I remember that Vince Young's was really bad, and it might give an indication of his ability to learn a pro style offense.
The only caveat to that is if they think they can transition Kerrigan from Purdue into a 3-4 OLB, because its very important that we complement Orakpo in the near future.
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:47 pm
by Justice Hog
While I am really intrigued by Cam Newton, I'm not entirely sure he's worthy of a #10 pick. Don't be entirely surprised if the Skins draft another stud tackle this year.....and perhaps fill their QB need in fee agency......a la, perhaps, Carson Palmer?
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:12 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
Justice Hog wrote:While I am really intrigued by Cam Newton, I'm not entirely sure he's worthy of a #10 pick. Don't be entirely surprised if the Skins draft another stud tackle this year.....and perhaps fill their QB need in fee agency......a la, perhaps, Carson Palmer?
Who are you thing is a stud right tackle worthy of the #10 pick?
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:07 pm
by TCIYM
KazooSkinsFan wrote:Justice Hog wrote:While I am really intrigued by Cam Newton, I'm not entirely sure he's worthy of a #10 pick. Don't be entirely surprised if the Skins draft another stud tackle this year.....and perhaps fill their QB need in fee agency......a la, perhaps, Carson Palmer?
Who are you thing is a stud right tackle worthy of the #10 pick?
Nate Solder would be the top tackle in this draft and he is a left tackle, although he would be one hell of a right tackle. Unfortunately, the Redskins have too many needs to go that route.
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:19 pm
by brad7686
Justice Hog wrote:While I am really intrigued by Cam Newton, I'm not entirely sure he's worthy of a #10 pick. Don't be entirely surprised if the Skins draft another stud tackle this year.....and perhaps fill their QB need in fee agency......a la, perhaps, Carson Palmer?
They could take a Tackle. Like I said it is WAY too early to predict where Newton will go, he will have the most volatile stock in the class. On the Palmer thing, I seriously hope not.
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:40 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
TCIYM wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:Justice Hog wrote:While I am really intrigued by Cam Newton, I'm not entirely sure he's worthy of a #10 pick. Don't be entirely surprised if the Skins draft another stud tackle this year.....and perhaps fill their QB need in fee agency......a la, perhaps, Carson Palmer?
Who are you thing is a stud right tackle worthy of the #10 pick?
Nate Solder would be the top tackle in this draft and he is a left tackle, although he would be one hell of a right tackle. Unfortunately, the Redskins have too many needs to go that route.
Exactly where I thought someone would go. A top Left tackle would be good enough to do it, but most of them would have a very bad attitude about it. It's leaving millions on the table and it's losing lots of recognition because Left Tackle is both the glamor job and the money job unless someone's just a natural right tackle.
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:48 pm
by CanesSkins26
KazooSkinsFan wrote:TCIYM wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:Justice Hog wrote:While I am really intrigued by Cam Newton, I'm not entirely sure he's worthy of a #10 pick. Don't be entirely surprised if the Skins draft another stud tackle this year.....and perhaps fill their QB need in fee agency......a la, perhaps, Carson Palmer?
Who are you thing is a stud right tackle worthy of the #10 pick?
Nate Solder would be the top tackle in this draft and he is a left tackle, although he would be one hell of a right tackle. Unfortunately, the Redskins have too many needs to go that route.
Exactly where I thought someone would go. A top Left tackle would be good enough to do it, but most of them would have a very bad attitude about it. It's leaving millions on the table and it's losing lots of recognition because Left Tackle is both the glamor job and the money job unless someone's just a natural right tackle.
Excellent point. Plus we have Jamaal Brown. He is fine for another couple years.
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:57 pm
by CanesSkins26
markshark84 wrote:CanesSkins26 wrote:markshark84 wrote:Redskins_Fanatic wrote:markshark84 wrote:By drafting Newton with the tenth pick, I guess the pondits have come to the conclusion that Snyder and the skins are officially drafting idiots.
That would be a horrendous pick. He's not worth the #10. He's 1/100 as good as Vick and overall not NFL QB material -- especially with this line.....
Okay. Opinion noted. Now for the other half of the equation.... Who DO you want to see the Redskins acquire at the QB position in the offseason, or what do you think the team should do with the QB's currently on the roster?
Honestly, I am not sure I see any single NCAA QB that is worth the #10 (of those in the draft). There are so many guys that have some of the tools I believe would make them successful in the NFL and lack the other tools necessary. Like Moore, he just doesn't have NFL size. Or Mallet -- he has a ton of the tools, except for the one in his head. Newton is just not ready and is seriously lacking passing accuracy. I think that Luck and OU's Jones are good, but they are staying in school. Then again, I am not sure why there isn't more talk about Dalton out of TCU.
All in all, I just don't see a quality QB -- but, I am sure there are a couple in this draft that will turn out well -- there usually are. Personally, I would take an OT with our pick. We need to get our line squared away. With that said, if there is a QB worth taking at 10, I say to pull the trigger -- I am of the opinion that if you can get a franchise QB, then do it, but right now I don't see one.
I think that Gabbert is certainly worth a top 10 pick. I would tend to agree with you about the others that you mentioned.
I almost feel like he is the "hot" name right now. You really didn't hear much about him during the season. I tend to be skeptical about QBs that leave early, but a junior leaving is better than sophs. Personally, I think he is leaving because there aren't many quality QBs in the draft this year, which worries me. With that said, he appears to have all the tools in size; I am not sure what he is like mentally, but he does appear to play well against solid competition. All in all, he does seem to be a quality QB, but I just don't know that much about him.
I think that has a lot to do with the fact that most people didn't expect him to come out this year. He has all the makings of a franchise qb.
Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:04 am
by yupchagee
Justice Hog wrote:While I am really intrigued by Cam Newton, I'm not entirely sure he's worthy of a #10 pick. Don't be entirely surprised if the Skins draft another stud tackle this year.....and perhaps fill their QB need in fee agency......a la, perhaps, Carson Palmer?
I don't think he is a FA.
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:29 pm
by chiefhog44
Countertrey wrote:langleyparkjoe wrote:Guys, what if.. WHAT IF.. we signed Orton from Denver with Rex backing him up? That way no need to even draft a qb (unless you do it for the future) but at the same time we could use that pick for other needs.. your thoughts?
Ummm... how'd that work in Chitown?
Actually pretty well. He's a winner. He won games there...it wasn't pretty but he won. The guy is smart, has a good arm and is now proven.
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:10 am
by Red_One43
chiefhog44 wrote:Countertrey wrote:langleyparkjoe wrote:Guys, what if.. WHAT IF.. we signed Orton from Denver with Rex backing him up? That way no need to even draft a qb (unless you do it for the future) but at the same time we could use that pick for other needs.. your thoughts?
Ummm... how'd that work in Chitown?
Actually pretty well. He's a winner. He won games there...it wasn't pretty but he won. The guy is smart, has a good arm and is now proven.
Orton signed an extension this past August that has him under contract through 2011. We would have to trade for him. Denver runs a 3-4 D. We don't have any draft choices to trade or people to make it worth a trade for the Broncos. Personally, if he were a free agent, I think Orton would do until Shanny finds his second coming of Elway.