Is this team really better than last year?

[Red_One43]

yes, we are better then last year

I'll agree - we can look at this team as having been lucky to win a few games but last year's team needs to be looked at too - the question is easy - YES

we were horrible last year and I'll agree we're not very good this year - but we are better

Exactly. The standard stated was better then last year. Frankly it's a no brainer even though you're right that it's a pretty low hurdle

Our offense was a little better this year. Our defense much worse. Last in the NFL. There's no way to say we were better this year. It's been a big disappointment.

And yet we won one more game with two to play and all were against decent teams and we stayed in several more against really good teams until late. The term better on the D isn't that they were statistically better it's that we made progress to where we're heading. It takes more then one year to go to a 3-4. Though I have to concede on the D we don't really know if it'll get good in the 3-4 or not.

We will beat the Jags today!

[TCIYM]

The term better on the D isn't that they were statistically better it's that we made progress to where we're heading.

The belief that we made progress to where we are heading is an entirely unfounded opinion since we don't know where we are heading. What matters is wins and losses. The other arguments for or against are tangential. Raw data statistics have meaning when taken in context. Scoring more points, allowing fewer points equate to more wins and fewer losses. That's a deadspin statement. "We are heading in the right direction" doesn't mean anything beyond changes have been made and there is an assumption we have a sense of direction. Good luck proving that.

[KazooSkinsFan]

The term better on the D isn't that they were statistically better it's that we made progress to where we're heading.

The belief that we made progress to where we are heading is an entirely unfounded opinion since we don't know where we are heading. What matters is wins and losses. The other arguments for or against are tangential. Raw data statistics have meaning when taken in context. Scoring more points, allowing fewer points equate to more wins and fewer losses. That's a deadspin statement. "We are heading in the right direction" doesn't mean anything beyond changes have been made and there is an assumption we have a sense of direction. Good luck proving that.

The term better on the D isn't that they were statistically better it's that we made progress to where we're heading. It takes more then one year to go to a 3-4. Though I have to concede on the D we don't really know if it'll get good in the 3-4 or not.

Here's the full quote. We're stupid and we suck, got it. Every time you repeat that it adds a new dimension and understanding to the subtleties of being stupid and sucking. Thank you for that intellectual advancement of the discussion.

[Red_One43]

yes, we are better then last year

I'll agree - we can look at this team as having been lucky to win a few games but last year's team needs to be looked at too - the question is easy - YES

we were horrible last year and I'll agree we're not very good this year - but we are better

Exactly. The standard stated was better then last year. Frankly it's a no brainer even though you're right that it's a pretty low hurdle

Our offense was a little better this year. Our defense much worse. Last in the NFL. There's no way to say we were better this year. It's been a big disappointment.

And yet we won one more game with two to play and all were against decent teams and we stayed in several more against really good teams until late. The term better on the D isn't that they were statistically better it's that we made progress to where we're heading. It takes more then one year to go to a 3-4. Though I have to concede on the D we don't really know if it'll get good in the 3-4 or not.

We will beat the Jags today!

That's RIGHT I CALLED IT!

[Red_One43]

What matters is wins and losses.

You said it TCIYM by your definition 6 wins to 4 says that we are better than last year. Case Closed! Everything else is tangential according to you.

Now jump on the Band Wagon and start supporting the Skins! Hail Redskins!

[welch]

OK. Six wins. Better than last year while rebuilding. Shanahan, and I don't claim to understand him, is picking the players who will and will NOT make the long trip to improvement with the Skins.

[Red_One43]

OK. Six wins. Better than last year while rebuilding. Shanahan, and I don't claim to understand him, is picking the players who will and will NOT make the long trip to improvement with the Skins.

Don't forget we have one more game coming up. That is what the evaluation is about finding out who WILL and who WILL NOT be here next year. The key to understanding means change from short run thinking to long run thinking. When Shanahan is saying I want to win, he is saying he is prioritizing moves that will help us win in the long run - build a winning program. Most fans think short run - i.e. we made the play-offs in 2005 but had a losing record for 2006. In 2005, you were happy, but in 2006 you were not, because the moves were short sighted and not building for the future. Shanahan is seeking players that will work hard toward winning year after year NOT players like Haynesworth that play for themselves and a BIG pay check. You saw today, players who were not as talented as the starters who started out the season beat a play-off contending team on their turf. Now, if that doesn't say something, I don't know what does. But keep this in mind - In the off season, Shanahan is not going to go after the BIG name free agents who want big bucks. He is going to go after the work ethic guys who want to be part of a unified 53 man team working toward one goal. This means Shanahan is looking for the third year to be among the elite teams, but be assured we will be a play-off team next year.

[CanesSkins26]

OK. Six wins. Better than last year while rebuilding. Shanahan, and I don't claim to understand him, is picking the players who will and will NOT make the long trip to improvement with the Skins.

You mean players like McNabb?

[TCIYM]

What matters is wins and losses.

You said it TCIYM by your definition 6 wins to 4 says that we are better than last year. Case Closed! Everything else is tangential according to you.

Now jump on the Band Wagon and start supporting the Skins! Hail Redskins!

I do support the Redskins, just not with the blind faith of some others. Yes, wins and losses are what counts but a couple more wins this season when the team won't be anywhere near the same next season isn't really meaningful, even though it is improvement. Consistency is what we lack, even with more wins. We will get there sooner or later, with this coach or another one, but there is no band-wagoning going on going on here. More like wagon-circling.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I do support the Redskins, just not with the blind faith of some others

Imagine, fans having faith. But the reality is:

1) You set your standard as wins. We won 50% more games then last year with a legit shot at another. By YOUR standard we are better. Stop tap dancing that you said what you didn't say but you meant what you said you implied...

2) Blind bashing is no more insightful then blind faith and is less so when you claim to be a "fan" of that which you blindly bash.

[SkinsJock]

It's kind of amusing that so many here look at some of us "supporters" as some kind of lunatics for daring to think that this franchise has improved since these guys came in here

we are characterized as having "blind faith" and all sorts of innuendo implying that because "they" think we're wrong, we must not know what we're talking about

wake up guys - this franchise started heading in the right direction the day we fired Cerrato and we have continued to improve since - including all the mistakes

personally I'm just loving it - be interesting to see who has the class to admit that maybe you're wrong about this FO and this coaching staff

[CanesSkins26]

It's kind of amusing that so many here look at some of us "supporters" as some kind of lunatics for daring to think that this franchise has improved since these guys came in here

we are characterized as having "blind faith" and all sorts of innuendo implying that because "they" think we're wrong, we must not know what we're talking about

wake up guys - this franchise started heading in the right direction the day we fired Cerrato and we have continued to improve since - including all the mistakes

personally I'm just loving it - be interesting to see who has the class to admit that maybe you're wrong about this FO and this coaching staff

I agree that we are better off than last year, but that isn't exactly a high standard to meet. The combo of Zorn and Cerrato was a total embarrassment. So far, though, Shanahan/Allen aren't doing that much better of a job. The McNabb debacle alone is enough to characterize their tenure so far as a failure.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I agree that we are better off than last year, but that isn't exactly a high standard to meet. The combo of Zorn and Cerrato was a total embarrassment. So far, though, Shanahan/Allen aren't doing that much better of a job. The McNabb debacle alone is enough to characterize their tenure so far as a failure.

Pre-mature evaluation...

[SkinsJock]

geez Canes - why can't you just look at it like -"these guys have made mistakes but we're better off with them in charge" instead of always finding a way to make out like these guys don't know what they're doing OR finding everything wrong possible instead of just giving these guys a chance to do their job and continue to try and get this team back from the disaster that was here recently

[Red_One43]

What matters is wins and losses.

You said it TCIYM by your definition 6 wins to 4 says that we are better than last year. Case Closed! Everything else is tangential according to you.

Now jump on the Band Wagon and start supporting the Skins! Hail Redskins!

I do support the Redskins, just not with the blind faith of some others. Yes, wins and losses are what counts but a couple more wins this season when the team won't be anywhere near the same next season isn't really meaningful, even though it is improvement. Consistency is what we lack, even with more wins. We will get there sooner or later, with this coach or another one, but there is no band-wagoning going on going on here. More like wagon-circling.

Blind faith? I don't get you. I did my homework. We have a coach following the model of a proven consistent winner. Our coach has two super bowls himself. First thing he and the GM do is change the culture of big spending. Next thing he does is sets a standard that players for this team will be guys with hard work ethics. The players who practice hard and play hard will not only play, but will be on the team next year. Inconsistent players who don't practice hard,even though talented, will not be on this team. Though it is great to have talent, Shanahan is showing you today that he is willing to be patient to build this team with the right kind of guys. What you saw today is that Shanahan is not going to chase after big name guys in the off-season. He is going to build through the draft, undrafted free agents and a select higher priced FA's who show a hard work ethic and will set the example around here. Check out the Steelers, Colts and PAtriots. Those are the models that Shanahan is following. Two of these teams have 3-4 defenses and those are the two best defenses of the three. Consistency? The coach is tinkering this season, you can't see that? BLIND FAITH! BLIND FAITH? Get real and do you homework. It is quite alright to disagree with what I see or where I think this team is going. BUT for you to say that we are ones with blind faith as if you can see better than us is ludicrous. Today, we watched an undermanned team beat a play-off contending team at home. This same team you tried to say was divided in the locker room fighting each other. You have been pouring on the negative stuff week after week. The fact is - You don't believe your own words or perhaps you can't see them- WHAT MATTERS ARE WINS AND LOSSES. It is you that have blind faith or should I say blind non faith. I personally think that there is more to a first season than wins and losses, but I didn't say wins and losses, did I? Try looking at the glass half full for a change, it might open your eyes. BTW - Don't even say well Shanahan messed up this or that, because none of us believe that there areany perfect coaches out there like you apparently do.

[Red_One43]

The McNabb debacle alone is enough to characterize their tenure so far as a failure.

When you say McNabb debacle are you saying the trade itself or the handling of McNabb during the season and subsequent media attention?

The trade so far is clearly a blunder, but it ain't over yet. If ShanAllen can get a decent trade out of it, the blow will be softened. When I say it was a blunder - I mean that somehow someone didn't do their homework on McNabb to find out if he fit Kyle's offense. Mike even admitted on his show, when pressed, if McNabb isn't here next year it was a mistake. By all means grill the FO and coach for that trade, but like I said it ain't over yet, let's see what they can do.

If you mean debacle as in the benching of McNabb and all that came with it - That was a great move as far as the benching, but only a little too late. McNabb was playng horribly. He wasn't even scrambling any more. It also told the other players that Mike is a man of his word - no matter what a players stature is they will be benched if they do not produce. Of course there will be fall out from that, because few coaches these days ever bench a star and that is what is wrong with the NFL. For example right here with the Redskins - everyone knows that Collins should have started in Saunders O with the Redskins, because he was the better QB, but no Gibbs is loyal to the veteran, Mark Brunell. In 2007, he is loyal to Jason and starts him, but what happens when Collins comes in for him at the end of the season? We all know. Thankfully we have a coach who will play the best players.
Could Shanahan have handled the McNabb thing with less drama? Yes, but how does that put him in the category of the previous Zorn and Cerrato? Shanahan is a coach who stands for a principle - he is not on shaky ground. You may not agree, but that does nothing to prove Mike Shanahan does not stand on solid principle. He went against strong public opinion and his back up QB out played McNabb in that game. They said his locker room was divided and no one would want to play for him with all the McNabb stuff going on - the team beats a play -off contender on there home turf.

Though, it hasn't been pretty this team has showed that it has not quit at the end of the season like it did last year. It has won more games than last year and the FO has set us up to be able to sign who we want next year. How is this not progress in a positive direction?

[KazooSkinsFan]

I do support the Redskins, just not with the blind faith of some others

Blind faith? I don't get you

That's because there's nothing to get. The more the Redskins do and prove the bashers wrong, the more extreme they get to justify their pre-conceived view. It's amazing that none of them now are sitting back and saying wow, maybe more good's going on then I gave credit for. No, the attacks become more vicious and unrelenting instead. With every game the team doesn't give up, or God forbid win, the sharper the knives become. Our faith is blind when it's supported by the performance. Their hatred of the team isn't even when it's not supported by the performance. That's all there is to get, and that's not worth getting.

[welch]

Yes, better than last year.

[UK Skins Fan]

Yes, better than last year. An awful lot to do to get to where we all want them to be, but definitely better.

[KazooSkinsFan]

Yes, better than last year. An awful lot to do to get to where we all want them to be, but definitely better.

Yes, getting our team from where it was last year to where we want it is like eating an elephant. And the way you do that is one bite at a time. This whole thing is so symptomatic of what's now wrong with our society and what has become constant need for immediate gratification and lack of perspective. Hence our choice of President who promised immediate and painless solutions to all our problems which were child's play for his giant brain to solve with just common sense. No matter how preposterous the promise was, it worked.

Basically, they watch TV where their team always wins with a good rah rah speech and completely fail to grasp the time and effort involved in creating winning processes that achieve long term results. They're intellectually slow, fat, lazy and demanding. And when they don't get it they whine and kvetch and blame people who actually do get it for not burping them and making them happy. And they insult us here and won't back it up in smack. The biggest reason for that being that they take themselves way to seriously to have some fun. And they take football way too seriously to support their team and have fun with that either.

It's about winning, but on someone else's effort. When they get don't get it, they just kvetch and moan and when they do they don't appreciate it. Their satisfaction is an an entitlement to them someone needs to figure out how to provide them without any effort on their part.

[Red_One43]

I do support the Redskins, just not with the blind faith of some others

Blind faith? I don't get you

That's because there's nothing to get. The more the Redskins do and prove the bashers wrong, the more extreme they get to justify their pre-conceived view. It's amazing that none of them now are sitting back and saying wow, maybe more good's going on then I gave credit for. No, the attacks become more vicious and unrelenting instead. With every game the team doesn't give up, or God forbid win, the sharper the knives become. Our faith is blind when it's supported by the performance. Their hatred of the team isn't even when it's not supported by the performance. That's all there is to get, and that's not worth getting.

Very well said.

[Irn-Bru]

It's kind of amusing that so many here look at some of us "supporters" as some kind of lunatics for daring to think that this franchise has improved since these guys came in here

we are characterized as having "blind faith" and all sorts of innuendo implying that because "they" think we're wrong, we must not know what we're talking about

wake up guys - this franchise started heading in the right direction the day we fired Cerrato and we have continued to improve since - including all the mistakes

personally I'm just loving it - be interesting to see who has the class to admit that maybe you're wrong about this FO and this coaching staff

I agree that we are better off than last year, but that isn't exactly a high standard to meet. The combo of Zorn and Cerrato was a total embarrassment. So far, though, Shanahan/Allen aren't doing that much better of a job. The McNabb debacle alone is enough to characterize their tenure so far as a failure.

It's pretty clear that signing McNabb was a mistake, but it's not so clear that this one mistake is enough to characterize their tenure as a failure. Just the fact that they realized their mistake, acted on it, and have moved on demonstrates that they are above average for this league. In many situations coaches / GMs would continue trying to make an unworkable situation work.

[Irn-Bru]

OK. Six wins. Better than last year while rebuilding. Shanahan, and I don't claim to understand him, is picking the players who will and will NOT make the long trip to improvement with the Skins.

You mean players like McNabb?

I think that's exactly what he means. Was this supposed to be a retort?

[TeeterSalad]

This team is better than last years, and I for one am proud of that! Hail!!

These guys are moving in the right direction...younger, decent players are popping out of the wood work, and playing as a cohesive unit.

Sure there's been some mistakes but I like the direction this team is headed overall. Hopefully next year we can get better consistency all around (offense and defense.)

I think this teams biggest flaw; still, is that they continue to play down to their competition, if they stop doing that and win the games they are supposed to win (against the rams, lions, etc.) then this will be a good team.

[welch]

OK. Six wins. Better than last year while rebuilding. Shanahan, and I don't claim to understand him, is picking the players who will and will NOT make the long trip to improvement with the Skins.

You mean players like McNabb?

I think that's exactly what he means. Was this supposed to be a retort?

Yes, exactly what I meant. Maybe McNabb will not play for the Redskins next season, but it will be by Shanahan's choice.