Deadskins wrote:Seems like we could have gotten at least a 7th for him.
Carolina is desperate. Devin is going into a franchise looking at the bottom of the standings this year. Possibly new coaching staff next year.
Very unlikely that this guy gets his head straight indeed. The worst enemy of anybody is an overgrown EGO in general, and this is particularly more negative when the person has very little to back it up withwork.
A 7th pick??? You miss the point !!! The point is: we think you, DT, are WORTHLESS.
The message to EVERYBODY in the team and the NFL if:
There is a system and discipline in Washington NOW. You either give your best and play as a team member contributing your best, or we dump you to the garbage can !!!
So, whether you are FAT AL or Devin Thomas or ... anybody really ... you shape up and play your best or you have no space in this roster. This is the right kind of work ethic that attracts players with CHARACTER to want to come an play in Washington.
It has taken and it might still take a while to exorcise the demons (and undo the cancer) accumulated under Vinny. Few people really knew how bad a shape we were in last year and how lucky we were to get 4 wins. How stupid does it look to have picked Thomas and Kelly instead of somebody else in that draft a couple of years ago??? You name the player, even a Philthy WR if you wish, who could have effectively helped ... Alternatively, we could have picked also an offensive lineman -and- another position of need.
This team is going in the right direction.
Give it a rest, RiC, I'm firmly on the bandwagon. I was just musing that I wished we could have gotten some value for a former 2nd round pick, especially if the Panthers are making a waiver claim for him.
Why would the Panthers give up a draft pick when they were probably very high on the waiver list. Wait until he is cut and claim him so he can't go to another team.
I hope they have a year and a half to invest in him. Because that is how long it seems it takes for him to learn a system.
Because they couldn't have had any idea that we would cut him outright.
Really?
The scuttlebutt around the league for a couple of weeks was that the Skins were going to cut him!
No, it wasn't. The scuttlebutt was that we were trying to trade him. That by no means says we're going to cut him if we don't find a trading partner.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
Deadskins wrote:Seems like we could have gotten at least a 7th for him.
You're thinking that didn't occur to anybody and they didn't try that? Too bad they don't read message boards...
Absolutely, they tried. That doesn't mean you have to cut him outright if you can't find a trading partner. The stuff about his attitude didn't come out until after he was cut, so at that time, I don't see how anyone could have known that we were planning on cutting him. We still haven't replaced him on the roster, have we? We cut him the day before a game, when he had been our kick returner in every game up to that point. Tell me you saw the cut coming, and I'll call you a liar.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
Deadskins wrote:Seems like we could have gotten at least a 7th for him.
You're thinking that didn't occur to anybody and they didn't try that? Too bad they don't read message boards...
Absolutely, they tried. That doesn't mean you have to cut him outright if you can't find a trading partner
The statement I refuted was we could have gotten "at least a 7th" for him. Saying we shouldn't have cut him outright may be a valid opinion, but it doesn't support the statement I challenged.
Deadskins wrote:The stuff about his attitude didn't come out until after he was cut, so at that time, I don't see how anyone could have known that we were planning on cutting him. We still haven't replaced him on the roster, have we? We cut him the day before a game, when he had been our kick returner in every game up to that point. Tell me you saw the cut coming, and I'll call you a liar.
I actually posted earlier in the thread I did not see it coming, but it was because he was doing well with kickoff returns not being a wide receiver. But as a WR I did see it coming and said of him and Malcolm that at the most one of the two would make the final cut.
As for his attitude not being known, I don't agree with you on that. I agree the specifics weren't known, but I think we knew he was having issues and I'm sure the GMs across the league did too. So even if they had interest in looking at him they put him in the category of wanting it for free and they were willing to risk losing him to get it.
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Deadskins wrote:Seems like we could have gotten at least a 7th for him.
You're thinking that didn't occur to anybody and they didn't try that? Too bad they don't read message boards...
Absolutely, they tried. That doesn't mean you have to cut him outright if you can't find a trading partner
The statement I refuted was we could have gotten "at least a 7th" for him. Saying we shouldn't have cut him outright may be a valid opinion, but it doesn't support the statement I challenged.
Deadskins wrote:The stuff about his attitude didn't come out until after he was cut, so at that time, I don't see how anyone could have known that we were planning on cutting him. We still haven't replaced him on the roster, have we? We cut him the day before a game, when he had been our kick returner in every game up to that point. Tell me you saw the cut coming, and I'll call you a liar.
I actually posted earlier in the thread I did not see it coming, but it was because he was doing well with kickoff returns not being a wide receiver. But as a WR I did see it coming and said of him and Malcolm that at the most one of the two would make the final cut.
As for his attitude not being known, I don't agree with you on that. I agree the specifics weren't known, but I think we knew he was having issues and I'm sure the GMs across the league did too. So even if they had interest in looking at him they put him in the category of wanting it for free and they were willing to risk losing him to get it.
You're parsing words. Sorry, I should have prefaced my statement with, "IMO," but I figured the word "seems" implied that.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
Deadskins wrote:Seems like we could have gotten at least a 7th for him.
Carolina is desperate. Devin is going into a franchise looking at thee bottom of the standings this year. Possibly new coaching staff next year.
Very unlikely that this guy gets his head straight indeed. The worst enemy of anybody is an overgrown EGO in general, and this is particularly more negative when the person has very little to back it up withwork.
A 7th pick??? You miss the point !!! The point is: we think you, DT, are WORTHLESS.
The message to EVERYBODY in the team and the NFL is:
There is a system and discipline in Washington NOW. You either give your best and play as a team member contributing your best, or we dump you to the garbage can !!!
So, whether you are FAT AL or Devin Thomas or ... anybody really ... you shape up and play your best or you have no space in this roster. This is the right kind of work ethic that attracts players with CHARACTER to want to come an play in Washington.
It has taken and it might still take a while to exorcise the demons (and undo the cancer) accumulated under Vinny. Few people really knew how bad a shape we were in last year and how lucky we were to get 4 wins. How stupid does it look to have picked Thomas and Kelly instead of somebody else in that draft a couple of years ago??? You name the player, even a Philthy WR if you wish, who could have effectively helped ... Alternatively, we could have picked also an offensive lineman -and- another position of need.
This team is going in the right direction.
Give it a rest, RiC, I'm firmly on the bandwagon. I was just musing that I wished we could have gotten some value for a former 2nd round pick, especially if the Panthers are making a waiver claim for him.
Why would the Panthers give up a draft pick when they were probably very high on the waiver list. Wait until he is cut and claim him so he can't go to another team.
I hope they have a year and a half to invest in him. Because that is how long it seems it takes for him to learn a system.
Because they couldn't have had any idea that we would cut him outright.
Really?
The scuttlebutt around the league for a couple of weeks was that the Skins were going to cut him!
No, it wasn't. The scuttlebutt was that we were trying to trade him. That by no means says we're going to cut him if we don't find a trading partner.
Again, I stand by my statement. There were talks for at least two weeks that thomas was in jeopardy of being cut.
Heck there was talk in the preseason he wasn't going to make the 53 man roster.
No one should have be surprised that he was cut. I didn't think he was going to be cut, but as soon as williams was signed off the practice squad the writing was on the wall.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren
"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier
Deadskins wrote:Seems like we could have gotten at least a 7th for him.
Carolina is desperate. Devin is going into a franchise looking at thee bottom of the standings this year. Possibly new coaching staff next year.
Very unlikely that this guy gets his head straight indeed. The worst enemy of anybody is an overgrown EGO in general, and this is particularly more negative when the person has very little to back it up withwork.
A 7th pick??? You miss the point !!! The point is: we think you, DT, are WORTHLESS.
The message to EVERYBODY in the team and the NFL is:
There is a system and discipline in Washington NOW. You either give your best and play as a team member contributing your best, or we dump you to the garbage can !!!
So, whether you are FAT AL or Devin Thomas or ... anybody really ... you shape up and play your best or you have no space in this roster. This is the right kind of work ethic that attracts players with CHARACTER to want to come an play in Washington.
It has taken and it might still take a while to exorcise the demons (and undo the cancer) accumulated under Vinny. Few people really knew how bad a shape we were in last year and how lucky we were to get 4 wins. How stupid does it look to have picked Thomas and Kelly instead of somebody else in that draft a couple of years ago??? You name the player, even a Philthy WR if you wish, who could have effectively helped ... Alternatively, we could have picked also an offensive lineman -and- another position of need.
This team is going in the right direction.
Give it a rest, RiC, I'm firmly on the bandwagon. I was just musing that I wished we could have gotten some value for a former 2nd round pick, especially if the Panthers are making a waiver claim for him.
Why would the Panthers give up a draft pick when they were probably very high on the waiver list. Wait until he is cut and claim him so he can't go to another team.
I hope they have a year and a half to invest in him. Because that is how long it seems it takes for him to learn a system.
Because they couldn't have had any idea that we would cut him outright.
Really?
The scuttlebutt around the league for a couple of weeks was that the Skins were going to cut him!
No, it wasn't. The scuttlebutt was that we were trying to trade him. That by no means says we're going to cut him if we don't find a trading partner.
Again, I stand by my statement. There were talks for at least two weeks that thomas was in jeopardy of being cut.
Heck there was talk in the preseason he wasn't going to make the 53 man roster.
No one should have be surprised that he was cut. I didn't think he was going to be cut, but as soon as williams was signed off the practice squad the writing was on the wall.
And I stand by mine. Show me anywhere here on THN, or anywhere else for that matter, these "talks that he was in jeopardy of being cut," before the axe actually fell. I realize there was speculation he might not make the 53 man roster, but once he did, and had played in every game as our kick returner, I saw no indications that a cut was imminent. When he was cut, I was sure the team must have been making room for someone else, but as far as I know, we still haven't filled his roster spot. Now word has "leaked out" that he had attitude problems (only backed up by his owns words in a radio interview). But prior to the actual cut, I don't remember anyone ever saying anything about that either. The closest was Kazoo saying he wasn't getting it done in practice, but that was more about his work ethic than his attitude, and it was pure conjecture on Kaz's part.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
1. We all remember that Zorn complained about Thomas and Kelley, saying that neither players had come to camp in playing shape, and that neither had studied the play-book.
I'm sure that other teams heard Zorn and put a question mark beside T & K.
2. I think someone on THN looked at the receiver-hierarchy late Aust or early September. THNers noted that D Thomas was last in the WR depth-chart, and that Malcolm Kelley had been put on IR.
3. Wasn't it suggested that Thomas might not last the year unless he magically improved.
I wasn't surprised when Shanahan and Allen cut him. Shanahan, like Gibbs, like George Allen, and like Lombardi will cut non-performers. That was the first thing Lombardi did: clear the walking-dead players left by Otto Graham.
I wasn't surprised when Shanahan and Allen cut him. Shanahan, likeGibbs, like George Allen, andlike Lombardi will cut non-performers. That was the first thing Lombardi did: clear the walking-dead players left by Otto Graham.
Heck, even Sonny paid attention, and cleared a good portion of his gut...
"That's a clown question, bro" - - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman "But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have" - - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America
After the Redskins’ win over Green Bay Sunday, coach Mike Shanahan hinted Thomas lacked the proper commitment, and he elaborated on Monday.
“I sat down with Devin a number of times and I go through somebody’s strengths and weaknesses,” Shanahan said. “He’s a very good person. I think he’s grown up a lot since I’ve been here. I’ve watched him make tremendous strides. He has the ability to play in the National Football League. But I’ve got to keep our top five wide receivers because we lost a running back. Devin was the next guy to go.”
Thomas couldn’t crack a rotation that includes Joey Galloway, 38, as a starter, previously unheralded Anthony Armstrong and Roydell Williams in regular roles and undrafted free agent Brandon Banks making an impact in the return game.
Proverbs 27:17 As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.
After the Redskins’ win over Green Bay Sunday, coach Mike Shanahan hinted Thomas lacked the proper commitment, and he elaborated on Monday.
“I sat down with Devin a number of times and I go through somebody’s strengths and weaknesses,” Shanahan said. “He’s a very good person. I think he’s grown up a lot since I’ve been here. I’ve watched him make tremendous strides. He has the ability to play in the National Football League. But I’ve got to keep our top five wide receivers because we lost a running back. Devin was the next guy to go.”
Thomas couldn’t crack a rotation that includes Joey Galloway, 38, as a starter, previously unheralded Anthony Armstrong and Roydell Williams in regular roles and undrafted free agent Brandon Banks making an impact in the return game.
I still have a hard time swallowing that he was noticeably worse than a guy who's been out of football 2 yrs with the praise that Shanahan gave here. But what's done is done and it's over now.
...any given Sunday....
RIP #21 Sean Taylor. You will be loved and adored by Redskins fans forever!!!!!
GSPODS:
The National Anthem sucks.
What a useless piece of propagandist rhetoric that is.
I'm sorry that Thomas did not make it but I have no problem with how the coaches and staff here make decisions about who stays - we used to have guys in charge that did not make good decisions and that is why this franchise had so many players that were mostly very talented but did not play very well together
We do not need talented football players - we need players that make the other players around them better - we've seen what happens when players are brought in just because they played well - this is not fantasy football, this is the NFL
Thomas and Kelly were disapointing - I'm sure that both are very good players but now we know that Thomas does not suit what Shanahan needs and he's gone - Kelly will have another chance next year and if he does not measure up he'll be gone too - we cannot afford to keep people just because they were high draft picks - if they do not suit what we need then they should be let go - getting a 7th for Thomas means that he did not look very good to us OR to the other franchises
we are still a very old team and I think we are going to see a lot of changes here this coming offseason but most important to me anyway is that we no longer look at what a player has achieved but at what he can do to help make this group better
I don't have blind faith in our FO but I do think they have done a very good job so far and deserve a little more time to continue along this path
I think a lot of fans here are going to be really pissed at the end of this season when we move a lot of current players out of here because I think we are going to see a lot of new faces next season - we need to get a lot younger and we need to move players for draft picks IF those players that are worth something are not integral to what we need to get better as a team
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
Thomas and kelley were 2 of the top 5 receivers on every teams draft board that year, so (as much as I'd like to) I can't really fault Vinny for those picks... we got 2 shots for the price of one pick... one didn't work out and the other hasn't so far... goes to show what a crap shoot the draft is...
USAFSkinFan wrote:Thomas and Kelley were 2 of the top 5 receivers on every teams draft board that year, so (as much as I'd like to) I can't really fault Vinny for those picks... we got 2 shots for the price of one pick... one didn't work out and the other hasn't so far... goes to show what a crap shoot the draft is...
Never forget - we are where we are because of Snyder & Cerrato - those 2 just could not understand the basics of running and managing an NFL franchise - they brought in some good players but it was more by luck than good management OR by the team doing so badly that we had a top 10 pick - "even the blind squirrel finds an acorn"
the draft is a crap shoot but there are many franchises that have managed to have a consistently competitive product on the field by managing the draft and really knowing which players had the best chance to make the transition from the college game
dumb and dumber had no clue - it is still debatable which one had the single brain cell
until last Thursday the Patriots had 2 picks in each of the first 4 rounds of next year's draft - they would not be trying to have that many picks if they did not believe in the value of the draft
I would not be surprised if both Kelley and Thomas become good players - Thomas was given every chance to stay but did not seem to want to make it here - maybe he'll flourish elsewhere - Kelley will get another shot next spring
we'll get there but it will take time to undo what Cerrato & Snyder did here
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
Drafting a receiver is the biggest crap shoot in football... for every Calvin Johnson, there are multiple high round picks that simply disappear. I don't know why...
"That's a clown question, bro" - - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman "But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have" - - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America
Countertrey wrote:Drafting a receiver is the biggest crap shoot in football... for every Calvin Johnson, there are multiple high round picks that simply disappear. I don't know why...
to your point - look at some of the great ones and where they were drafted - Jerry Rice for one and our very own Art Monk - making the transition from the college game seems to be harder for this position although there are busts at a lot of positions each and every year
having a very good college scouting department is really important and having a FO that can select players that will potentially help your team is also very important
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
Every FO drafts people who can potentially help your team...that's the whole and entire point. I don't imagine anyone says, "We're gonna draft this guy, but he sucks and there's NO CHANCE he can help us!!!"
...any given Sunday....
RIP #21 Sean Taylor. You will be loved and adored by Redskins fans forever!!!!!
GSPODS:
The National Anthem sucks.
What a useless piece of propagandist rhetoric that is.
VetSkinsFan wrote:Every FO drafts people who can potentially help your team...that's the whole and entire point. I don't imagine anyone says, "We're gonna draft this guy, but he sucks and there's NO CHANCE he can help us!!!"
Exactly what I was thinking. LMAO at the post above yours.
VetSkinsFan wrote:Every FO drafts people who can potentially help your team ... that's the whole and entire point. I don't imagine anyone says, "We're gonna draft this guy, but he sucks and there's NO CHANCE he can help us!!!"
Exactly what I was thinking. LMAO at the post above yours.
well golly gee
most here did not know this - here we were thinking that dumb and dumber were doing whatever they were doing on purpose
"Every FO drafts people who can potentially help your team ... that's the whole and entire point." DUH! - wake up guys - we all know (well most of us) what FOs try to do with the draft and through free agency but these 2 bozos didn't have a clue what they were doing or we wouldn't be in the mess we were in before the new guys came in and took over
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
VetSkinsFan wrote:Every FO drafts people who can potentially help your team ... that's the whole and entire point. I don't imagine anyone says, "We're gonna draft this guy, but he sucks and there's NO CHANCE he can help us!!!"
Exactly what I was thinking. LMAO at the post above yours.
well golly gee
most here did not know this - here we were thinking that dumb and dumber were doing whatever they were doing on purpose
"Every FO drafts people who can potentially help your team ... that's the whole and entire point." DUH! - wake up guys - we all know (well most of us) what FOs try to do with the draft and through free agency but these 2 bozos didn't have a clue what they were doing or we wouldn't be in the mess we were in before the new guys came in and took over
Well, they did draft Sean Taylor, Chris ey, Laron Landry, and Brian Orakpo in the past few years, so they weren't always wrong.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
I thought I made the point that there were times when even dumb and dumber could not screw it up - they just had no real knowledge of how important the draft picks were or how to continue to bring in both talent and depth
I think the reason we were in such a mess was because these 2 really did not know what they were doing - if you think differently that's fine
I think that the guys in charge now are trying the best they can to build this franchise back into being a consistently competitive unit and they will not follow any of the guidelines of dumb and dumber
Thomas and Kelley and any player here now gets to show that they are part of the future or they're gone
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
Deadskins wrote:Well, they did draft Sean Taylor, Chris ey, Laron Landry, and Brian Orakpo in the past few years, so they weren't always wrong.
Vinny Cerrato for President
Deadskins for Vice-President
What a wonderful combination, a ticket made way up in heaven
Hey brother, JSPB, even when you make an argument for the sake of it, just to get on to others, it has to have some substance. Please do not remind me that disgraceful moderator who left with thetail behind his legs when it was proven EVEN by Dan Snyder himself that Vinny was useless.
Daniel Snyder has defined incompetence, failure and greed to true Washington Redskins fans for over a decade and a half. Stay away from football operations !!!
The actual draft picks haven't been the Redskins problem for the most part, it's been the managing of the picks... trading them away in moments of panic for guys like Jason Taylor and TJ Duckett...
Deadskins wrote:Well, they did draft Sean Taylor, Chris ey, Laron Landry, and Brian Orakpo in the past few years, so they weren't always wrong.
Vinny Cerrato for President Deadskins for Vice-President
What a wonderful combination, a ticket made way up in heaven
(Blown up)Hey brother, JSPB, even when you make an argument for the sake of it, just to get on to others, it has to have some substance. Please do not remind me that disgraceful moderator who left with thetail behind his legs when it was proven EVEN by Dan Snyder himself that Vinny was useless.
I always think it's funny how Vinny was the scapegoat. We draft Taylor and ey, that was Joe Gibbs making the picks. We trade a second rounder for Jason Taylor, that was all Vinny.
Every personnel blunder in the last ten years is attributed to Vinny Cerrato and every achievement is attributed to the coach, or a coordinator, or Snyder or someone else.
Vinny isn't the reason the team has been absolutely direction-less for 18 years. He made some serious errors in judgment and was not a very good GM (though, how much power did he really have) but let's not act like he's the cause of all our problems. He had to work with 5 coaches over 10 years to try to get them personnel who would fit their own specific system... and what does every coach do when the first take over a football team? Make trades, and in the NFL that means losing draft picks.
I'm not convinced anyone would have been able to have success piloting the Redskins the last ten years. The real blame is with Snyder and the total lack of direction he's had for the team since he took over. (And before that the total ineptitude of the front office pretty much blowing every first round pick from 1992-1998... though Tom Carter and Kenard Lang weren't totally awful.)
"Guess [Ryan Kerrigan] really does have a good motor. And is relentless. And never quits on a play. And just keeps coming. And probably eats Wheaties and drinks Apple Pie smoothies and shaves with Valvoline." -Dan Steinberg DC Sports Bog
ey, Laron Landry, and Brian Orakpo in the past few years, so they weren't always wrong.
