The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

yupchagee wrote:

Maximoral wrote:

yupchagee wrote:

Maximoral wrote:

ATX_Skins wrote:We can talk about how small Banks is all day long. What has it effected though? Guys still cant catch him, he's not injured.

I would rather have a small and healthy Banks than a big, injury prone Kelly on my team.

Talk about injury prone! Banks is a midget and I could easily throw him around a room. Imagine him taking a blind hit from Ed Reed! I'll take a large receiver with some injury issues over a little guy who's going to end up in a wheel chair! He looks like a little kid out there.

Terrible comparison between him and Sproles by the way. Sproles is built like a tank. He's short, but that's where it ends. Banks is short and dainty!

Banks survived the Big 12 without injury. More than can be said for Kelley.

Okay, I'm certainly not saying that Kelly hasn't proven thus far to be injury prone. He certainly has. He also has far more upside potential than Banks. All that I'm saying is that Banks is now in there with the big boys. He can't survive at this level. This is a different game than what he played in at college. He's simply too small. Santana is about as tiny as you can be while still being an effective receiver in this league.

I like Banks. He's somewhat of a "special interest" story for this preseason. Still, he doesn't belong in this league. At least not with us!

Lot's of undersized players have not only survived, but thrived. Examples include:
Eddie LeBaron
Pat Fischer
Chris Hanbutger.

I seem to remember a certain HOF CB that people also said was too small, but played 20 years in the league.

Again, a useless comparison. Green weighed around 185-190 pounds when he played, which isn't all that small for a cb. Banks weighs 150 pounds. Punters and kickers weigh more than that.

I hope the guy makes the team and can contribute, I just don't see how he contributes this year. Thomas most likely returns kicks, Austin/Buchanan punts, and Banks isn't going to play wr unless a bunch of guys gets injured.

ATX_Skins wrote:I think a lot of guys are confused here about Banks. Yes he is small, and because of that YES he may be a 5th or 6th receiver, most likely 6th.

The issue here isnt how well he will play WR but how much upside does he bring to the team on KR and PR. If you can get away with keeping him at 6th, then he will most likely never see the field during a series.

Where can you keep a skill player without having to make him a vital part of the game plan?

Maximoral wrote:

yupchagee wrote:

Maximoral wrote:Sheesh guys! The guy is a tiny tot! He's going to get killed out there. Yes, you've managed to mention two defensive backs who were small who survived. Well, the odds aren't as heavily against them as they are a tiny reciever. The DB's don't normally have to worry about monsterous blind side hits. They don't have to worry about guys like Ed Reed decleating them from behind. In fact, these little guys often get to apply the blind side hits. It doesn't impress me nearly as much when a little guy who is not directly in the line of fire can survive injury free vs. a midget who's essentially storming the beaches of Normandy by himself!

He's a special interest story and you guys are all getting hyped about it! The fact is simply that there is more potential upside with Kelly then there will ever be with Banks.

WR's don't have to tackle 240# RB's either. He's too small for the Big 12 & did OK.

I agree, they don't. Still read the fine print. It's easy to avoid injury when you're a tiny DB and you need to take out the legs of an oncoming 240 RB. You undercut him of you're trying your hardest to drag him down from behind.

Like I said earlier, the DB's will rarely get drilled from the blind side the way a receiver does. What happens when that little man goes over the middle and gets absolutely blown up by some 260lb. middle line backer? Even worse, what if he doesn't see it coming?

Another fact to throw in is that he stands absolutely no chance in run blocking which means you could never have him in on a running play. The Shanahan's don't strike me as the kind of guys who hold on to receivers who can only be used on passing plays. Not only would this hurt the possible play calling ability of the OC, but it would be a tip to the D that a passing play is coming. "Oh look, the smurf is in the game, no need to have 8 in the box!"

Deadskins wrote:

ATX_Skins wrote:I think a lot of guys are confused here about Banks. Yes he is small, and because of that YES he may be a 5th or 6th receiver, most likely 6th.

The issue here isnt how well he will play WR but how much upside does he bring to the team on KR and PR. If you can get away with keeping him at 6th, then he will most likely never see the field during a series.

Where can you keep a skill player without having to make him a vital part of the game plan?

Yeah, how many times did Rock Cartwright see the field as a RB? We kept him on the roster as a STer, not for his running abilities. Desmond Howard made a career as a return man, so don't tell me teams won't keep a player just to return kicks and punts.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

ATX_Skins wrote:I think a lot of guys are confused here about Banks. Yes he is small, and because of that YES he may be a 5th or 6th receiver, most likely 6th.

The issue here isnt how well he will play WR but how much upside does he bring to the team on KR and PR. If you can get away with keeping him at 6th, then he will most likely never see the field during a series.

Where can you keep a skill player without having to make him a vital part of the game plan?

Yeah, how many times did Rock Cartwright see the field as a RB? We kept him on the roster as a STer, not for his running abilities. Desmond Howard made a career as a return man, so don't tell me teams won't keep a player just to return kicks and punts.

The difference is that Banks wont return kicks, only punts. He hasn't returned a single kick in the two preseason games. If you look at who is getting the opportunities, Keiland Williams, Austin, and Thomas appears to be battling for the kick returner job. I don't think that they keep both Austin and Banks, and considering that Austin can return both kicks and punts, I think that he wins the job in the end.

I think we keep:
Thomas
Kelly
Moss
Galloway
Austin
Armstrong

brad7686 wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

ATX_Skins wrote:I think a lot of guys are confused here about Banks. Yes he is small, and because of that YES he may be a 5th or 6th receiver, most likely 6th.

The issue here isnt how well he will play WR but how much upside does he bring to the team on KR and PR. If you can get away with keeping him at 6th, then he will most likely never see the field during a series.

Where can you keep a skill player without having to make him a vital part of the game plan?

Yeah, how many times did Rock Cartwright see the field as a RB? We kept him on the roster as a STer, not for his running abilities. Desmond Howard made a career as a return man, so don't tell me teams won't keep a player just to return kicks and punts.

The difference is that Banks wont return kicks, only punts. He hasn't returned a single kick in the two preseason games. If you look at who is getting the opportunities, Keiland Williams, Austin, and Thomas appears to be battling for the kick returner job. I don't think that they keep both Austin and Banks, and considering that Austin can return both kicks and punts, I think that he wins the job in the end.

I think we keep:
Thomas
Kelly
Moss
Galloway
Austin
Armstrong

Just because Austin can return punts doesn't mean he's anywhere near as good as banks. ARE could return punts. Was he good? No. Banks stays. Kelly goes.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

ATX_Skins wrote:I think a lot of guys are confused here about Banks. Yes he is small, and because of that YES he may be a 5th or 6th receiver, most likely 6th.

The issue here isnt how well he will play WR but how much upside does he bring to the team on KR and PR. If you can get away with keeping him at 6th, then he will most likely never see the field during a series.

Where can you keep a skill player without having to make him a vital part of the game plan?

Yeah, how many times did Rock Cartwright see the field as a RB? We kept him on the roster as a STer, not for his running abilities. Desmond Howard made a career as a return man, so don't tell me teams won't keep a player just to return kicks and punts.

The difference is that Banks wont return kicks, only punts.

Deadskins wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

ATX_Skins wrote:I think a lot of guys are confused here about Banks. Yes he is small, and because of that YES he may be a 5th or 6th receiver, most likely 6th.

The issue here isnt how well he will play WR but how much upside does he bring to the team on KR and PR. If you can get away with keeping him at 6th, then he will most likely never see the field during a series.

Where can you keep a skill player without having to make him a vital part of the game plan?

Yeah, how many times did Rock Cartwright see the field as a RB? We kept him on the roster as a STer, not for his running abilities. Desmond Howard made a career as a return man, so don't tell me teams won't keep a player just to return kicks and punts.

The difference is that Banks wont return kicks, only punts.

And Rock only returned kicks. The point is still valid.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

ATX_Skins wrote:I think a lot of guys are confused here about Banks. Yes he is small, and because of that YES he may be a 5th or 6th receiver, most likely 6th.

The issue here isnt how well he will play WR but how much upside does he bring to the team on KR and PR. If you can get away with keeping him at 6th, then he will most likely never see the field during a series.

Where can you keep a skill player without having to make him a vital part of the game plan?

Yeah, how many times did Rock Cartwright see the field as a RB? We kept him on the roster as a STer, not for his running abilities. Desmond Howard made a career as a return man, so don't tell me teams won't keep a player just to return kicks and punts.

The difference is that Banks wont return kicks, only punts.

And Rock only returned kicks. The point is still valid.

Rock also was on the coverage team and played a decent amount at rb. Oh yea, and Shanahan decided not to keep Rock on the team.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

ATX_Skins wrote:I think a lot of guys are confused here about Banks. Yes he is small, and because of that YES he may be a 5th or 6th receiver, most likely 6th.

The issue here isnt how well he will play WR but how much upside does he bring to the team on KR and PR. If you can get away with keeping him at 6th, then he will most likely never see the field during a series.

Where can you keep a skill player without having to make him a vital part of the game plan?

Yeah, how many times did Rock Cartwright see the field as a RB? We kept him on the roster as a STer, not for his running abilities. Desmond Howard made a career as a return man, so don't tell me teams won't keep a player just to return kicks and punts.

The difference is that Banks wont return kicks, only punts.

And Rock only returned kicks. The point is still valid.

Rock also was on the coverage team and played a decent amount at rb. Oh yea, and Shanahan decided not to keep Rock on the team.

Maximoral wrote:Trust me on this one! In a few weeks time, we won't be talking about this anymore. Banks is a career practice squad guy. He had one great punt return and had one nice catch! He's simply not as electric as you all are making him out to be!

And as I've stated over and over, he's just not big enough for that position! Not in today's modern game with Athletes who are as quick as he is but double the size! He's fast, but he's not the NFL's fastest man! Let's stop acting like he's the second coming of Devin Hester already!

If he has a few more nice returns and takes one more to the house in preseason, then I will gladly eat my own words. Right now, he's just interesting and that's where it ends. It's like rooting for Rudy to get on the field in the final game of his Notre Dame career!

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

ATX_Skins wrote:I think a lot of guys are confused here about Banks. Yes he is small, and because of that YES he may be a 5th or 6th receiver, most likely 6th.

The issue here isnt how well he will play WR but how much upside does he bring to the team on KR and PR. If you can get away with keeping him at 6th, then he will most likely never see the field during a series.

Where can you keep a skill player without having to make him a vital part of the game plan?

Yeah, how many times did Rock Cartwright see the field as a RB? We kept him on the roster as a STer, not for his running abilities. Desmond Howard made a career as a return man, so don't tell me teams won't keep a player just to return kicks and punts.

The difference is that Banks wont return kicks, only punts. He hasn't returned a single kick in the two preseason games. If you look at who is getting the opportunities, Keiland Williams, Austin, and Thomas appears to be battling for the kick returner job. I don't think that they keep both Austin and Banks, and considering that Austin can return both kicks and punts, I think that he wins the job in the end.

I think we keep:
Thomas
Kelly
Moss
Galloway
Austin
Armstrong

yupchagee wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

ATX_Skins wrote:I think a lot of guys are confused here about Banks. Yes he is small, and because of that YES he may be a 5th or 6th receiver, most likely 6th.

The issue here isnt how well he will play WR but how much upside does he bring to the team on KR and PR. If you can get away with keeping him at 6th, then he will most likely never see the field during a series.

Where can you keep a skill player without having to make him a vital part of the game plan?

Yeah, how many times did Rock Cartwright see the field as a RB? We kept him on the roster as a STer, not for his running abilities. Desmond Howard made a career as a return man, so don't tell me teams won't keep a player just to return kicks and punts.

The difference is that Banks wont return kicks, only punts. He hasn't returned a single kick in the two preseason games. If you look at who is getting the opportunities, Keiland Williams, Austin, and Thomas appears to be battling for the kick returner job. I don't think that they keep both Austin and Banks, and considering that Austin can return both kicks and punts, I think that he wins the job in the end.

I think we keep:
Thomas
Kelly
Moss
Galloway
Austin
Armstrong

Who said that Banks won't return KO's? He just hasn't had the opportunity yet.
Galloway goes.

Red_One43 wrote:

Maximoral wrote:Trust me on this one! In a few weeks time, we won't be talking about this anymore. Banks is a career practice squad guy. He had one great punt return and had one nice catch! He's simply not as electric as you all are making him out to be!

And as I've stated over and over, he's just not big enough for that position! Not in today's modern game with Athletes who are as quick as he is but double the size! He's fast, but he's not the NFL's fastest man! Let's stop acting like he's the second coming of Devin Hester already!

If he has a few more nice returns and takes one more to the house in preseason, then I will gladly eat my own words. Right now, he's just interesting and that's where it ends. It's like rooting for Rudy to get on the field in the final game of his Notre Dame career!

Red - I sincerely hope that you're right. It would be awesome if this smurf turns out to be a stud! All I'm saying is that in my opinion, he doesn't show enough upside potential to merit a roster spot. I would definitely put him on the practice squad and maybe bring him up in case of injury.

I honestly would love to be wrong on this one, but he reminds me of the way I used to feel about Taylor Jacobs. You would hear nothing but great things about him in practice and camp. Then you'd see flashes of brilliance in the preseason, but he never did anything for us in real games. Jacobs was a burner too, except that he was considerably larger than Banks. I'm just making sure to stay even keel about this kid's chances!
C'mon, Max! A Banks/Rudy comparison? OK, maybe in height and heart, but Rudy never scored any touchdowns and he didn't have the speed of Banks. Furthermore, Banks had two other long returns that were called back for ticky-tack holding calls that had nothing to do with the play one against Buffalo and one against the Ravens. Is there anything particular that you would like to drink with those words you will be gladly eating on Friday night?

Maximoral wrote:

Red_One43 wrote:

Maximoral wrote:Trust me on this one! In a few weeks time, we won't be talking about this anymore. Banks is a career practice squad guy. He had one great punt return and had one nice catch! He's simply not as electric as you all are making him out to be!

And as I've stated over and over, he's just not big enough for that position! Not in today's modern game with Athletes who are as quick as he is but double the size! He's fast, but he's not the NFL's fastest man! Let's stop acting like he's the second coming of Devin Hester already!

If he has a few more nice returns and takes one more to the house in preseason, then I will gladly eat my own words. Right now, he's just interesting and that's where it ends. It's like rooting for Rudy to get on the field in the final game of his Notre Dame career!

Red - I sincerely hope that you're right. It would be awesome if this smurf turns out to be a stud! All I'm saying is that in my opinion, he doesn't show enough upside potential to merit a roster spot. I would definitely put him on the practice squad and maybe bring him up in case of injury.

I honestly would love to be wrong on this one, but he reminds me of the way I used to feel about Taylor Jacobs. You would hear nothing but great things about him in practice and camp. Then you'd see flashes of brilliance in the preseason, but he never did anything for us in real games. Jacobs was a burner too, except that he was considerably larger than Banks. I'm just making sure to stay even keel about this kid's chances!
C'mon, Max! A Banks/Rudy comparison? OK, maybe in height and heart, but Rudy never scored any touchdowns and he didn't have the speed of Banks. Furthermore, Banks had two other long returns that were called back for ticky-tack holding calls that had nothing to do with the play one against Buffalo and one against the Ravens. Is there anything particular that you would like to drink with those words you will be gladly eating on Friday night?

fleetus wrote:There is a lot of paralysis by analysis on here. Banks is small for the NFL, yes. Banks is fast and agile, yes. Banks might be more prone to being smashed like a bug in the NFL, yes. So what? You judge the guy by what he can do on the field. If he can run fast enough, move quickly enough and see the field well enough to be a good returner, he will make the team, despite his small stature. End of story. Only time will tell.

Deadskins wrote:

fleetus wrote:There is a lot of paralysis by analysis on here. Banks is small for the NFL, yes. Banks is fast and agile, yes. Banks might be more prone to being smashed like a bug in the NFL, yes. So what? You judge the guy by what he can do on the field. If he can run fast enough, move quickly enough and see the field well enough to be a good returner, he will make the team, despite his small stature. End of story. Only time will tell.

Exactly the point I was trying to make. I don't understand the opposition to Banks making the team on the possibility that he might get injured.

Deadskins wrote:

fleetus wrote:There is a lot of paralysis by analysis on here. Banks is small for the NFL, yes. Banks is fast and agile, yes. Banks might be more prone to being smashed like a bug in the NFL, yes. So what? You judge the guy by what he can do on the field. If he can run fast enough, move quickly enough and see the field well enough to be a good returner, he will make the team, despite his small stature. End of story. Only time will tell.

Exactly the point I was trying to make. I don't understand the opposition to Banks making the team on the possibility that he might get injured.

Deadskins wrote:

fleetus wrote:There is a lot of paralysis by analysis on here. Banks is small for the NFL, yes. Banks is fast and agile, yes. Banks might be more prone to being smashed like a bug in the NFL, yes. So what? You judge the guy by what he can do on the field. If he can run fast enough, move quickly enough and see the field well enough to be a good returner, he will make the team, despite his small stature. End of story. Only time will tell.

Exactly the point I was trying to make. I don't understand the opposition to Banks making the team on the possibility that he might get injured.